The Jordan Peterson saga

[EmpressMaia]

Bottom post of the previous page:

[ekaterina]

they appealed the ban and started talking about "transgender ideology"

Oh, yeah... now that you mention it, he did say that... I guess reading it in his appeal got it in my head and then I forgot why I'd associated that phrase to him. I used that phrase because he used it himself, which also explains why I couldn't define it: I can't read his mind and know what the phrase means to him.

There is no "transgender ideology", it's bullshit people spew to try and justify their hate of trans people. Wanna know what they think it is? They think the "transgender ideology" is to kidnap and fuck their kids.

That sounds so ridiculous that it is almost certainly a strawman, especially considering how many assumptions you like to make about people who disagree with you.

Do you believe that "transgender ideology" is real? Please answer with honesty.

Niche videogame forums are not the place I like to go to discuss politics, so I'll neither answer honestly nor dishonestly, especially since it's a loaded question involving a term that means different things to each person.

I'm not replying any further in this thread.

I don't plan on replying any further either. This thread's derailing from a discussion of a ban and admin misconduct into a discussion of a divisive political issue which I have no interest in discussing here.

Having seen what this forum community's like on any subject even tangentially related to politics, I'll pass on arguing against a brick wall so terminally online it thinks Twitter accurately represents average political beliefs, takes value judgements as objective fact, twists my words imposing on them its own definitions, spouts informal fallacies and formal fallacies alike, and where dogpiling is the order of the day.

[BrolyButterfingers]

That sounds so ridiculous that it is almost certainly a strawman, especially considering how many assumptions you like to make about people who disagree with you.

You're dumb as shit lmao

[Turbonerd]

they appealed the ban and started talking about "transgender ideology"

Oh, yeah... now that you mention it, he did say that... I guess reading it in his appeal got it in my head and then I forgot why I'd associated that phrase to him. I used that phrase because he used it himself, which also explains why I couldn't define it: I can't read his mind and know what the phrase means to him.

There is no "transgender ideology", it's bullshit people spew to try and justify their hate of trans people. Wanna know what they think it is? They think the "transgender ideology" is to kidnap and fuck their kids.

That sounds so ridiculous that it is almost certainly a strawman, especially considering how many assumptions you like to make about people who disagree with you.

Do you believe that "transgender ideology" is real? Please answer with honesty.

Niche videogame forums are not the place I like to go to discuss politics, so I'll neither answer honestly nor dishonestly, especially since it's a loaded question involving a term that means different things to each person.

I'm not replying any further in this thread.

I don't plan on replying any further either. This thread's derailing from a discussion of a ban and admin misconduct into a discussion of a divisive political issue which I have no interest in discussing here.

Having seen what this forum community's like on any subject even tangentially related to politics, I'll pass on arguing against a brick wall so terminally online it thinks Twitter accurately represents average political beliefs, takes value judgements as objective fact, twists my words imposing on them its own definitions, spouts informal fallacies and formal fallacies alike, and where dogpiling is the order of the day.

Stop bringing this political crap to the forums and fuck off already. You didn't need to bring that nonsensical rant in.

[TheRex9001]

I'll say for the record that its very common to permaban low hour players who just randomly say slurs in ahelps/ooc since its typically evaders/griefers who do this, and the rest aren't always people who we want to keep around, the guy in the appeal is the latter, I don't even know why they wanted to appeal it since this is a "tranny shit" server.

[BrolyButterfingers]

I'll say for the record that its very common to permaban low hour players who just randomly say slurs in ahelps/ooc since its typically evaders/griefers who do this, and the rest aren't always people who we want to keep around, the guy in the appeal is the latter, I don't even know why they wanted to appeal it since this is a "tranny shit" server.

Persecution fetish.

[Dax Dupont]

Ekaterina, you're honestly trash defending this shit and then being a coward and going "I'm no longer gonna reply" when everyone rightfully points out that you're just a bigot.

[Maxipat]

I'm not replying any further in this thread.

I don't plan on replying any further either. This thread's derailing from a discussion of a ban and admin misconduct into a discussion of a divisive political issue which I have no interest in discussing here. .

This is exactly what right-wingers do with trans people, turn basic human right into "divisive political issue"

[Jacquerel]

this guy wanted to know if he didn’t want to play here and the admins kindly helped him out by ensuring he didn’t, saving him future anguish

ekaterina is a living tar pit

[MrStonedOne]

Define "Transgender ideology" for me.

It's a right-wing phrase I've seen. Some conservatives assert that they do not hate transgender people themselves but instead hate the ideology. I don't live in his head in order to know whether or not it is the case in this specific instance

You failed the vibe check. There is no "transgender ideology", it's bullshit people spew to try and justify their hate of trans people. Wanna know what they think it is? They think the "transgender ideology" is to kidnap and fuck their kids. That's what they think of trans people.

Out of all the stupid things ekaterina posted in this thread why did you pick the least braindead one to hone in on in the most braindead matter?

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

[Jacquerel]

i’m so glad that now ekat is gone (or so he claims) someone else is here to have completely disconnected takes so this thread doesn’t end

[MrStonedOne]

Clear admin misconduct.
Banning a player for approaching you and asking a question is beyond retarded. Wordlessly banning a cooperative player is malicious. Responding to a player's appeal and complaint with memes (and nothing else) is unprofessional.
I rarely argue for harsh punishments, but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident.

luckily the unwritten rule applies to admins and i lol'ed

[Agux909]

I think TBM may or may not, suddenly, be my favourite admin.

[Lacran]

Define "Transgender ideology" for me.

It's a right-wing phrase I've seen. Some conservatives assert that they do not hate transgender people themselves but instead hate the ideology. I don't live in his head in order to know whether or not it is the case in this specific instance

You failed the vibe check. There is no "transgender ideology", it's bullshit people spew to try and justify their hate of trans people. Wanna know what they think it is? They think the "transgender ideology" is to kidnap and fuck their kids. That's what they think of trans people.

Out of all the stupid things ekaterina posted in this thread why did you pick the least braindead one to hone in on in the most braindead matter?

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

You're describing cancel culture.

The guy asked if the server was pro "tranny shit" then in the appeal mentioned transgender ideology.

It's more Occam's razor to assume they are using transgender ideology as a replacement for "tranny shit" leading to a deservedly ungenerous interpretation.

Overall the term transgender ideology is a motte and bailey argument. Similar to the older phrase "the gay agenda"

[Timberpoes]

Clear admin misconduct.
Banning a player for approaching you and asking a question is beyond retarded. Wordlessly banning a cooperative player is malicious. Responding to a player's appeal and complaint with memes (and nothing else) is unprofessional.
I rarely argue for harsh punishments, but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident.

luckily the unwritten rule applies to admins and i lol'ed

Also, transparency report.



Any such complaint would be levvied directly against me, since I authorised it as a headmin.

[Fren256]

Niche videogame forums are not the place I like to go to discuss politics, so I'll neither answer honestly nor dishonestly, especially since it's a loaded question involving a term that means different things to each person.

Why not? You seemed perfectly fine discussing the inherent value of racial slurs, but now arguing about "trans ideology" is problematic to you?

I don't plan on replying any further either. This thread's derailing from a discussion of a ban and admin misconduct into a discussion of a divisive political issue which I have no interest in discussing here.

But this is all I needed to hear, thank you

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

[Boot]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

[BlueMemesauce]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

And we need to ban for these political views because..? Just say that they're an obvious troll and ban them for that.

[iwishforducks]

boot moment

computer. post large ascii art of kermit.

[dendydoom]

this is an expression of bigotry which breaks rule 11. the word isn't being used in a vacuum, it's being applied to a group of people in a derogatory way. bigots online commonly feign ignorance to couch their bigotry inside otherwise innocuous behaviour. it's part of the decision-making process to decide where the line is drawn in each case. in this case it seems pretty easy.

Intentionally seeking to demean others due to their actual or perceived race, sex, gender, disability, orientation or the like is not tolerated.

the way they engaged broke the rules. TBM decided to not respond to their rhetoric. he wasn't aggressive or attacking the player's beliefs on a personal level. he saved himself a headache by turning their poor behaviour into a joke before showing them the door. it was a good way to handle a situation that's often deeply unpleasant to deal with. they would not have wanted to play here anyway because, among other groups, we don't tolerate the expression of bigotry against lgbt+ people. i imagine this is the "getting uppity" that they were referring to.

but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident.

this is by far the funniest thing you've ever posted, well done.

now i'm getting the fuck outta this thread because it has all the makings of a 7-pager and i don't have the stomach for the sort of discourse on the horizon.

[Lacran]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Straight people have been doing weird shit to kids and shooting up schools for a while now

[Boot]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Straight people have been doing weird shit to kids and shooting up schools for a while now

1. Sure however when people push back against people saying crazy shit typically they don't to hide behind the "they just hate us" shield as effectively.
2. I'm old enough to remember the arguments used against them. It was "no one is going to teach your kids to be gay."

[Lacran]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Straight people have been doing weird shit to kids and shooting up schools for a while now

1. Sure however when people push back against people saying crazy shit typically they don't to hide behind the "they just hate us" shield as effectively.
2. I'm old enough to remember the arguments used against them. It was "no one is going to teach your kids to be gay."

Who specifically managed to deflect a school shooting using that argument boot? The people you complain about is a group of people that make up a tiny minority, within another tiny minority.

Are you saying kids are gay because schools teach it now? What's your point here?

[c4g]

i need to start doing more "tranny shit"

[Misdoubtful]

!	Message from: Misdoubtful & Riggle
	Alriiiight, this thread is getting dangerously heated and people are really scrapping the edge of the expression of bigotry barrel themselves here, practically a stones throw away from it, honestly. This conversation isn't going to end up going anywhere good, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to point and laugh at the bigot that this appeal is focused on.

[Boot]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Straight people have been doing weird shit to kids and shooting up schools for a while now

1. Sure however when people push back against people saying crazy shit typically they don't to hide behind the "they just hate us" shield as effectively.
2. I'm old enough to remember the arguments used against them. It was "no one is going to teach your kids to be gay."

Who specifically managed to deflect a school shooting using that argument boot? The people you complain about is a group of people that make up a tiny minority, within another tiny minority.

Are you saying kids are gay because schools teach it now? What's your point here?

Sorry mom and dad told me I had to stop before I dunked you into next week.

[TheLoLSwat]

I can see boot having a 1000 yard stare every time he is exposed to a pride flag and it’s funny to think about

[Fren256]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Straight people have been doing weird shit to kids and shooting up schools for a while now

1. Sure however when people push back against people saying crazy shit typically they don't to hide behind the "they just hate us" shield as effectively.
2. I'm old enough to remember the arguments used against them. It was "no one is going to teach your kids to be gay."

Who specifically managed to deflect a school shooting using that argument boot? The people you complain about is a group of people that make up a tiny minority, within another tiny minority.

Are you saying kids are gay because schools teach it now? What's your point here?

Sorry mom and dad told me I had to stop before I dunked you into next week.

Boot everytime you speak you always end up getting Club Q'd on the head

[conrad]

Clear admin misconduct.
Banning a player for approaching you and asking a question is beyond retarded. Wordlessly banning a cooperative player is malicious. Responding to a player's appeal and complaint with memes (and nothing else) is unprofessional.
I rarely argue for harsh punishments, but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident. It definitely warrants an investigation at the very least, which our headmins don't seem to be doing.

If the player does happen to see this by any chance, my advice is to not ask, and instead try the server and see for yourself. Asking this kind of question, especially phrased like this, makes it look like you're trolling.

By the way, this isn't how to make a peanut. Share links, not screenshots!
Appeal: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34747
Complaint 1: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34751
Complaint 2: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34750
Complaint 3: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34749

Here you go ekat.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

Point to where the misconduct was, please.

[dendydoom]

dubs

dubs

check em

[dendydoom]

check em again

[dirk_mcblade]

Obviously it's the chemicals in the water turning frogs gay. Do you think the ASCII kermit is just a coincidence? Wake up people.

[conrad]

dubs

dubs

check em

check em again

[c4g]

dubs

dubs

check em

timber has like two different layers of dubs with 700700

[Donglesplonge]

"STOP having fun in ahelps with obvious shitters..... you CAN'T HAVE FUN AS AN ADMIN..... looks like its TIME TO TURN ON THE SHOCK COLLAR AGAIN...." - how this thread reads

also good choice on ASCII thump but i'm gonna be 100 proof witcha playa i'm still too in love with ASCII butthead to think kermit was the best choice personally, but different strokes for different folks

⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠟⠛⠛⠛⠻⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠋⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠙⠋⠙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠁⠄⠄⠄⠄⣀⡀⠄⠄⠄⠄⠄⣠⣄⣀⣤⡀⠈⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠄⠄⢠⣴⣾⣿⣿⣶⣶⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡇⠄⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣆⠄⢸⣿⣿⣿⣟⣛⠿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠛⣻⣿⡇⠄⠄⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡗⢀⣿⣿⣿⣿⡷⠾⣿⣯⡹⠿⢿⣿⣿⣧⠄⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣮⢻⣿⣿⣿⣬⣤⠹⡿⢣⣶⣼⣿⣿⢡⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⢿⣛⡿⠿⠛⠉⠉⠙⠛⢿⡻⢡⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣎⢻⣿⣿⡶⠶⠶⢿⣿⡟⣵⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⣼⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿

[Lacran]

Sorry mom and dad told me I had to stop before I dunked you into next week.

Thanks for not "dunking me into next week" Ben Shapiro style boot. Glad I didn't have to tackle your political acumen that definitely isn't just the shit you scrape off your boot after visiting /pol/.

[warbluke]

I have no proof of this, but I'm pretty sure that this ban is the result of a thread about SS13 made on /tg/ (the board) earlier this week, which likely inspired the banned in question to visit this server and promptly reveal their power level.

[Timberpoes]

Clear admin misconduct.
Banning a player for approaching you and asking a question is beyond retarded. Wordlessly banning a cooperative player is malicious. Responding to a player's appeal and complaint with memes (and nothing else) is unprofessional.
I rarely argue for harsh punishments, but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident. It definitely warrants an investigation at the very least, which our headmins don't seem to be doing.

If the player does happen to see this by any chance, my advice is to not ask, and instead try the server and see for yourself. Asking this kind of question, especially phrased like this, makes it look like you're trolling.

By the way, this isn't how to make a peanut. Share links, not screenshots!
Appeal: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34747
Complaint 1: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34751
Complaint 2: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34750
Complaint 3: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34749

Here you go ekat.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

Point to where the misconduct was, please.

Ekat has a point.The conduct breaches were both blatant and obvious. It's only because it was an ahelp from someone that was phrased in such a stupid way that clearly showed their credentials as a bigot that any of this was given a pass.

It's poor conduct to troll players like that in ahelps. The conduct-friendly approach would have been to explain to them that our server reject expression of bigotry in general, and transphobia falls under that and that their opening ahelp was expressing bigotry.

It was also poor conduct (excepting that they were spurred on by a headmin to do it, which basically means I'm responsible and not them) to just drop a kermit ASCII art in the appeal and deny it without any additional airs or graces.

The handling of all the complaints had a lot of iffy conduct from the headmins.

So Ekat is technically correct, the best kind of correct. You shouldn't try to gaslight them into thinking this kind of conduct from admins or headmins is anything even remotely acceptable. Because it's not.

Except when it is acceptable. And this is totally one of those cases. The admin team aren't all cold, dry robots. We can have fun and enjoy ourselves. It's not every day we get someone asking us about how supportive we are of "tranny shit". And it's not every day we get to mess around a little in response to what is the most tone-deaf, room illeterate question someone can ask while seeing if we'll give them recommendations to another server hosting our code that is more bigot-friendly.

So although Ekat is technically correct, it falls under an exception where we'd allow the unallowable; conduct breaches. This is not a case of lacking any conduct breaches in the first place.

[Ziiro]

our monthly bigot thread quota has been filled

have a good one everyone

..................................................................... __ . __.............................
..................................................................../’`: : `\,---`.„.....................
................................................................../|,-‘`¯¯`\(o)_ \,----,,,_...........
..................„~*¯¯`”\,.............. _„_.............( `\(o),,_/` ¯ : o : : :o `-, ......
................./ : · :(“, ~;*’¯¯¯”\, (_,--``”~,......\ : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : `\.....
.................| : · :,/`,-*~;~··-„,/ (‘` ``)/· ,\....,/` : : :_„„,: : : : : : :: : : : \...
................| : · / ,/`,--\ \’`c\,---„1 ‹’`--(_,/ ./ : : :,/` · · ): : :: : : : : : : : |...
.................) : µ’` .\ (c) `¯ . . ·`), . ,-~`..... \ : : :| · · '”\, : : : :: : : : : ::/...
.............../` ,/_~-, .`;;`„-„,__,./, ```/....... `\: : :\ · · · · `*-.,: : : : : :,-‘ ....
...............`-/¨;--;~’ `”*-=,=-_ ,) . ,/`...........`› : `\, · · · · · · ¯”~---,--`......
...„„.........__\, · ‘, · . . . `\„_,/ ,/;-;_ ............ /``| ./ · · · · · · · : · : „-“..........
.( :·`\,-~*`¯ · · ·`¯` `~--*--~;/`~*`*--, . `1` ./ : |, . . . .---~*”`...............
. \·:··:”*~-,,„„____„„,.-~”`¯`/ / · · · · · ‘\,) , / : :| · : : · ·/...........................
...`”’~-,„„„„„„,,~‘`.( · · · ,.__| | · · · ·, `\„/ ,/`: : : / · · · ·| ..........................
.........................\`”””` · · ·`’~;-,„,,_)”`_-‘ : : : / · · · · · | ..........................
......... (`*”-,„,-”¯¯”`-;„· · · · · · , /'``,-~”`¯: : :/ · · · · : |............................
.......... | : :(,;-===-„, `\,· · · ,-`| · ·/ : : : | :,/` · · · · · ·| ...........................
......... . \ : :\, · · · · \\ · `\. ·)· / · / : :\ : :`~,_ · · · · · :: | ...........................
............ \\,_`~.,_„,.-*\\, `/,/„/` ,/ : : :`’;-.„_ : ¯-, · · · /,............................
..............`\,,`”| : :`-,„_„))’`"` ·,/`_„,~*’` · · ( · , ,`)·,-; `’\,......................
............. ,.¬-,--\ : : : : : : : : / · · · · · · · · · · · ·,,-“`.....’-„,-‘.....................
..............| |: :*:\ : : : : : : :_/ „____„„„„,---~*`.........................................
............./ / : : : `~-„„„„„,.;;`,,.--`............................................................
............| | : : : :|¯ : ,/ ¯ ........................................................................
.............\,\,_,„./---~`..................................................... ........................
................................................................................ ..............................

[ekaterina]

It was fun to see MSO and Boot come out swinging and put the "support the radical left or you're a bigot, no in between" crowd in their places.
How absurd is it to imply that simply acknowledging that an issue is divisive and that the left and right have diametrically opposed positions makes you a bigot?

Why not? You seemed perfectly fine discussing the inherent value of racial slurs, but now arguing about "trans ideology" is problematic to you?

It's actually because of my experience with discussions like that that I chose not to continue discussing this.
I know you people are a brick wall to argue with, use emotional reactions instead of rationality, will dogpile exactly like you did, and will argue in bad faith trying to twist my words like you were preparing to do before I walked away and MSO called you and Vekter out on it. You tried to bait me into defending something highly controversial that isn't even my position just because I used the appellant's own words when talking about the appellant's own thoughts.
Given the above, I have no interest in discussing politics with you or the other users of this forum.

Point to where the misconduct was, please.

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously.

I thought it obvious.

The conduct breaches were both blatant and obvious (...) excepting that they were spurred on by a headmin to do it, which basically means I'm responsible and not them

It's good to see some someone accepting responsibility for this issue.

You shouldn't try to gaslight them into thinking this kind of conduct from admins or headmins is anything even remotely acceptable. Because it's not.
Except when it is acceptable. And this is totally one of those cases.

Timberpoes has investigated himself and cleared himself of any wrongdoing. Outstanding.

[Ziiro]

I think TBM may or may not, suddenly, be my favourite admin.

[technokek]

Clear admin misconduct.
Banning a player for approaching you and asking a question is beyond retarded. Wordlessly banning a cooperative player is malicious. Responding to a player's appeal and complaint with memes (and nothing else) is unprofessional.
I rarely argue for harsh punishments, but this case is just so blatant I'm wondering whether it would call for this bozo to be deadminned immediately following this incident. It definitely warrants an investigation at the very least, which our headmins don't seem to be doing.

If the player does happen to see this by any chance, my advice is to not ask, and instead try the server and see for yourself. Asking this kind of question, especially phrased like this, makes it look like you're trolling.

By the way, this isn't how to make a peanut. Share links, not screenshots!
Appeal: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34747
Complaint 1: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34751
Complaint 2: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=34750
Complaint 3: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34749

Here you go ekat.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Admin_Conduct

Point to where the misconduct was, please.

Ekat has a point.The conduct breaches were both blatant and obvious. It's only because it was an ahelp from someone that was phrased in such a stupid way that clearly showed their credentials as a bigot that any of this was given a pass.

It's poor conduct to troll players like that in ahelps. The conduct-friendly approach would have been to explain to them that our server reject expression of bigotry in general, and transphobia falls under that and that their opening ahelp was expressing bigotry.

It was also poor conduct (excepting that they were spurred on by a headmin to do it, which basically means I'm responsible and not them) to just drop a kermit ASCII art in the appeal and deny it without any additional airs or graces.

The handling of all the complaints had a lot of iffy conduct from the headmins.

So Ekat is technically correct, the best kind of correct. You shouldn't try to gaslight them into thinking this kind of conduct from admins or headmins is anything even remotely acceptable. Because it's not.

Except when it is acceptable. And this is totally one of those cases. The admin team aren't all cold, dry robots. We can have fun and enjoy ourselves. It's not every day we get someone asking us about how supportive we are of "tranny shit". And it's not every day we get to mess around a little in response to what is the most tone-deaf, room illeterate question someone can ask while seeing if we'll give them recommendations to another server hosting our code that is more bigot-friendly.

So although Ekat is technically correct, it falls under an exception where we'd allow the unallowable; conduct breaches. This is not a case of lacking any conduct breaches in the first place.

Another satisfied timperpose voter

[EmpressMaia]

be trans commit arson

[conrad]

Point to where the misconduct was, please.

Maintain professional conduct both in game and outside of the game. It is expected that you take the position seriously.

I thought it obvious.

Did you not see the contents of the ahelp? We're not customer service droids that unfeelingly stamp tickets from the ivory tower. tbm simply sent a very wholesome "yikes".

snip

I wish I had Timberpoes' olympic ethical gymnastic movement range.

You shouldn't try to gaslight them into thinking this kind of conduct from admins or headmins is anything even remotely acceptable. Because it's not.
Except when it is acceptable. And this is totally one of those cases.

Timberpoes has investigated himself and cleared himself of any wrongdoing. Outstanding.

He does that a lot.

[Timberpoes]

Yet more satisfied Timberpoes voters!

[ekaterina]

Yet more satisfied Timberpoes voters!

Unironically yes. You provided transparency as to what went on, took accountability for your part, and quelled concerns about admin misconduct by providing a reasonable answer.

[Dax Dupont]

"Transgender ideology" means a lot of things to a lot of people and trying to strawman all usages to be the same as the worst usage you've seen is some peak sjw ideology shit.

For instance, to me, transgender ideology is bullying Dave Chappelle's transgender friend into suicide because she was friends with him. It's caring more about some jokes about "chicks with dicks" than Ron DeSantis, than having to clarify that people like him are """actual""" fascists because you wore the word so thin. It's trying to cancel contrapoints, a trans women youtuber because she ate at the same table as shoe0nhead.

That's cool and all MSO, but your particular understanding of what it means doesn't really matter, because it all really boils down to one thing: anti-LGBT sentiment. The majority of conservatives think that the LGBT is forcing the youth to become part of the community (which is obviously not true, but that doesn't really matter to them). So in order to "protect the children", in the case of the US, a worrying amount of anti-trans legislation has been passed over the last few years, which further marginalize a group that is already being discriminated against.

Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh? You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern? Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB? The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?

Let's boil this down:
1. Really? It all just boils down to fuck the gays eh?
Yes, most of the time. It's nothing new. Especially in this polarized political culture. It's not unlike the terminally online left calling everyone a nazi. Demonizing is an often used tactic in politics. Considering they're actively making it illegal for people to get medical care in a bunch of states.
2. You don't think that the parents of the swimmers who got stomped out by Lia Thomas have any legitimate concern?
Not a problem unless you want to start banning any women with more testosterone. I think it's better to drop gender in sport completely and just work on a class based system like weight classes in boxing.
3. Parents finding estrogen being sold to their kids with the instructions to "keep out of reach of parents" or being taught to melt plastic bags to make at home are just upset about LGB?
Just because a few stupid people sell or teach stupid shit that the vast majority doesn't approve doesn't make it representative and doesn't make it an agenda.
4. The constant talk about "There's a trans genocide they're coming for us they hate us all" ends up with one depopulating an elementary school but anyone who brings that up must just hate the gays right?
Again, not representative. There's a lot of shootings committed by right wing people, but I don't feel that's representative of the right wing community as a whole.

Sure there's people pushing to make everything politically to various degrees, but that's a problem thanks to American politics and isn't the fault of 'trans ideology', it's just cancerous terminally online people.

I am also 100% sure that there's bad and shitty trans people just like the rest of population.

[Fren256]

How absurd is it to imply that simply acknowledging that an issue is divisive and that the left and right have diametrically opposed positions makes you a bigot?

Because it's not a pawlitics uwu issue, it's a human rights issue. Saying "I disagree with the trannies" does turn you into a bigot, especially if it's worded out like that.

It's actually because of my experience with discussions like that that I chose not to continue discussing this.
I know you people are a brick wall to argue with, use emotional reactions instead of rationality, will dogpile exactly like you did, and will argue in bad faith trying to twist my words like you were preparing to do before I walked away and MSO called you and Vekter out on it. You tried to bait me into defending something highly controversial that isn't even my position just because I used the appellant's own words when talking about the appellant's own thoughts.

This wouldn't be much of an issue if you were more transparent in what you actually support, since you act as the devil's advocate of the server. It's problematic that you rush to defend abhorrent people and get all defensive when we start asking questions about your beliefs.

It was fun to see MSO and Boot come out swinging and put the "support the radical left or you're a bigot, no in between" crowd in their places.

[technokek]

Why are you people still discussing this.

[Riggle]

This thread aged like milk

⡏⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⣉⣩⣭⣉⣉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⢁⣀⠀⣀⡈⠙⢢⡀⠀⠒⠒⠂⣀⡤⠖⠒⠒⠒⠢⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠏⠀⢰⣿⣿⡿⠛⠃⠀⠀⣹⠀⠀⠀⠸⡇⠀⠀⢰⣶⣤⣀⠀⠱⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⠀⠀⣾⠏⠉⠁⠀⢀⡠⠞⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠻⣄⠀⠀⠨⢿⣿⡷⠄⠸⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⡤⠿⡀⠈⠀⢀⣀⠤⠚⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠹⣷⡆⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠁⠀⢀⠝⠋⠙⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳⣄⡀⠀⠀⡼⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⢏⣴⠀⢀⡞⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠓⠚⠙⠢⡀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡏⡞⢸⡄⠨⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠳⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⡇⡇⢸⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡖⢳⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡇⣷⠈⠉⢷⠀⢠⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣾⡧⣾⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⡘⡆⠀⠙⣆⠀⠈⠑⠦⣤⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡤⠞⠋⢰⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣳⣳⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠙⠛⠿⠶⢤⣤⠤⠤⠤⠤⠶⠆⠐⠂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⢏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⠚⢉⣡⣡⡁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣯⠇⢀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⣇⡤⠖⣉⣀⣠⣴⠞⠋⠁⣷⠐⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⢞⠗⠁⣠⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡧⣚⠿⠛⠉⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⣿⡄⢈⢳⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⠟⠂⠁⠀⠈⠁⣀⠔⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡏⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣿⣇⠀⠳⡑⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⡾⠛⠁⠀⠀⢀⡠⠖⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⢀⠀⠰⢾⣿⡀⠀⠙⣆⠣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠞⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⡠⠊⠁⠀⠀⠘⠈⣿⣧⠀⠀⠹⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⠃⢀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠸⡿⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⡠⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⣿⡀⠀⠀⠈⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⠃⠀⠘⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⠼⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⠃⠀⢄⠀⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢣⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⡤⠤⠴⢲⠃⠀⠀⠈⠳⢦⣤⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠁⠀⠀⠈⢧⢹⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠈⠉⠉⠀⠀⠀⢀⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠉⠙⠒⠒⠒⠀⠐⠒⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢳⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠴⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣷⣤⡀⠀⠀⢻⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠞⠁⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⣾⡟⠛⠉⠙⠳⢦⣄⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⠃⠀⠀⢀⡴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡟⠸⡇⠀⠀⢸⠛⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢻⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⣸⠃⠀⢀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⠁⢰⢿⠀⠀⡏⠀⠘⣷⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠸⡏⢀⡴⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢘⡇⠀⠀⠀⣰⠃⡀⡀⢸⡇⠀⡇⠀⠀⣸⣷⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⡷⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠨⡇⠀⠀⢰⠃⠀⠀⠀⢸⡇⢸⢃⣤⣾⣿⣿⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⣰⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⡇⣼⣿⣿⡿⠉⠀⠹⣦⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠇⣰⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⢡⣿⡿⠟⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢘⣿⠧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠒⠛⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⡿⠀⠀⠀⢀⣸⣥⡤⠶⠒⠛⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⣇⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣠⣭⣥⣽⣶⣿⣿⣷⣦⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣦⣄⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀

[kieth4]

⣠⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣤⣄⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⡿⠛⠉⠙⠛⠛⠛⠛⠻⢿⣿⣷⣤⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⣿⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⠈⢻⣿⣿⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿⡏⠀⠀⠀⣠⣶⣾⣿⣿⣿⠿⠿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣯⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⢿⣷⡄⠀
⠀⠀⣀⣤⣴⣶⣶⣿⡟⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣷⠀
⠀⢰⣿⡟⠋⠉⣹⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠘⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣦⣤⣤⣤⣶⣶⣶⣶⣿⣿⣿⠀
⠀⢸⣿⡇⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠃⠀
⠀⣸⣿⡇⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠻⠿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠿⠿⠛⢻⣿⡇⠀⠀
⠀⣿⣿⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣧⠀⠀
⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⠀⠀
⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿⠀⠀
⠀⢿⣿⡆⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⡇⠀⠀
⠀⠸⣿⣧⡀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣷⣶⣶⣶⣶⠶⠀⢠⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⣽⣿⡏⠁⠀⠀⢸⣿⡇⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⢹⣿⡆⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿⠇⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣦⣄⣀⣠⣴⣿⣿⠁⠀⠈⠻⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠻⠿⠿⠿⠿⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀