Archie700 Yobrocharlie - Splitting hairs

[Yobrocharlie]

BYOND account: Yobrocharlie
Character name: Random ashwalker
Ban type: Lavaland ghost roles
Ban length: 7 days
Ban reason: I would put this here but they haven't actually applied the punishment yet (During Round 215014, spawned as ashwalker after he was made aware than another admin had spawned a room of claymores in the lavaland ruin, defended by migos and other creatures. Within less than 1 minute, went near the ruin, then ran back to near where he spawned claiming that he "heard something in the corner". Proceeded to dig towards the area where the claymores were. Using ghost information to determine where the room is placed is considered metagaming, and your actions imply that you tried to cover it up by saying you heard it IC.)
Time ban was placed: in the near future (2023-09-21 10:37:16)
Server you were playing on when banned: Manual
Round ID in which ban was placed: incident happened on 215014
Your side of the story: I logged in and observed on one faithful icebox to see one of the admins I like doing a cool icebox ashwalker event, "oh neat" I thought to myself and decided to stop playing CDDA to join in, while observing however I commented on a custom area that the admin in question added to the lavaland sanctuary on icebox in the top right with a netherlink a few mi-go's and a claymore. I said in d-chat "Two real claymores" or something along the lines of that a few minutes later when im playing and walking around as an ash walker i see one of my fellow ash walkers being attacked by a legion so I go in to help and to kill more legion's to gather more bodies for the necropolis- however while over here I heard a mi-go making weird noises and so later down the line I decided to investigate- knowing that i needed to dig north to reach the mi-go's and stuff but didn't want to have to kill all of the legions again i decided to make a hole a little bit away (banning admin has a nice screenshot) and when I got here I dug around to investigate and see what the noise was to which i saw a door and started to break it down because it could not be opened. After I destroyed it I noticed that there was an indestructible wall underneath so I decided to be helpful and report it in the means of a prayer. A little down the line I go on with a around 500+ word string with an admin and along with this which takes over an hour and a half to get through and then they place the note the next round to which here I am moments later.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I had every IC reason to investigate the noise even if I had prior knowledge of what was over there the admins could have changed it or adjusted it to be a nifty surprise or something cool especially considering that this entire thing was an admin event after all and they had complete control. However instead I got my ass kicked because I had prior OOC knowledge of something but with now a good IC reason to investigate it- this is really splitting hairs when it comes to ban reasons.
Anything else we should know: I cant take anymore notes right now despite how small and insignificant of a punishment this is for me especially considering i practically never play lavaland ghost roles- however sadly its actually fucking massive mainly because im actively trying to get unbanned from a many number of other places and this kind of note would really send the wrong fucking idea- Also even though this doesnt leave anything on centcom it still matters for other servers because the admins over there still do find out about anything that happens here I found that out the hard way last time.

[Vekter]

In the future, do not post an appeal until the round has ended and the admin has applied the punishment.

During Round 215014, spawned as ashwalker after he was made aware than another admin had spawned a room of claymores in the lavaland ruin, defended by migos and other creatures. Within less than 1 minute, went near the ruin, then ran back to near where he spawned claiming that he "heard something in the corner". Proceeded to dig towards the area where the claymores were. Using ghost information to determine where the room is placed is considered metagaming, and your actions imply that you tried to cover it up by saying you heard it IC.

[Archie700]

I'm going to sum up why what you did was considered metagaming.

Before you joined, Mrrfiish was setting up some icebox ashwalkers in a lavaland ruin and even spawned a claymore room as a surprise for the ashwalkers, with mi-go as guards

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[2023-09-21 07:27:16.434] GAME-COMPAT: ADMIN: MrrFiish/(Hides-On-Station) spawned 1 x /obj/item/claymore at Lavaland Wastes (183,99,2)

You joined as ghost and took note of the claymore prize in your ghost role:

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[2023-09-21 07:27:54.789] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Yobrocharlie/(Yobrocharlie) was assigned to a /mob/dead/new_player
[2023-09-21 07:27:55.297] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Yobrocharlie) Client Yobrocharlie/(Yobrocharlie) has taken ownership of mob Yobrocharlie(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,248,1))
[2023-09-21 07:28:52.234] GAME: *no key*/(Yobrocharlie) *no key*/(Yobrocharlie) is no longer owning mob Yobrocharlie(/mob/dead/new_player) (start area (8,248,1))
[2023-09-21 07:28:52.234] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Yobrocharlie/(ghost) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2023-09-21 07:28:52.276] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(ghost) Client Yobrocharlie/(ghost) has taken ownership of mob the ghost(/mob/dead/observer) (Central Primary Hallway (113,141,4))
[2023-09-21 07:31:54.752] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "the fuck?" (Lavaland Wastes (212,67,2))
[2023-09-21 07:31:59.082] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "ash walkers?" (Lavaland Wastes (208,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:05.668] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "how the fuck did ash walkers spawn?" (Lavaland Wastes (208,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:06.705] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "oh" (Lavaland Wastes (208,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:08.919] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "i see now" (Lavaland Wastes (208,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:17.028] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "hi fish :3" (Lavaland Wastes (213,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:51.165] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "real claymores" (Lavaland Wastes (186,98,2))
[2023-09-21 07:32:57.411] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "the best weapons in the game" (Lavaland Wastes (186,94,2))
[2023-09-21 07:33:05.060] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "(40 brute 50 ap)" (Lavaland Wastes (183,94,2))
[2023-09-21 07:33:46.409] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "well i wanted to continue to play CDDA came to check if there were any cool people in game" (Lavaland Wastes (213,72,2))
[2023-09-21 07:33:52.619] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) (DEAD) "but ash walker gaming sounds fun" (Lavaland Wastes (191,79,2))
[2023-09-21 07:34:02.152] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Daniel Cola) became a necropolis ash walker. (Icemoon Caves (214,65,2))
[2023-09-21 07:34:02.214] GAME-ACCESS: Mob Login: Yobrocharlie/(Rebecca Earl) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2023-09-21 07:34:02.243] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Rebecca Earl) Client Yobrocharlie/(Rebecca Earl) has taken ownership of mob Rebecca Earl(/mob/living/carbon/human) (Icemoon Caves (214,65,2))
[2023-09-21 07:34:02.245] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Rebecca Earl) Rebecca Earl name changed from  to Shahvee-Azbai (Icemoon Caves (214,65,2))
[2023-09-21 07:34:02.247] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Shahvee-Azbai) has gained antag datum �Ash Walker(/datum/antagonist/ashwalker).

Here's where it gets suspicious: soon after you spawned, you immediately went to the general area of the ruin within 1.5 minutes, then went back to the ashwalker nest to tell others that you "heard something in the corner", most likely the mi-go scream. This whole exchange took less than 3 minutes.

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[2023-09-21 07:35:12.234] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Shahvee-Azbai) started fireman carrying Unknown. (Lavaland Wastes (185,88,2))
[2023-09-21 07:35:28.638] GAME: Yobrocharlie/(Shahvee-Azbai) is no longer being ridden by Unknown. (Lavaland Wastes (214,68,2))
[2023-09-21 07:36:31.294] GAME-SAY: Yobrocharlie/(Shahvee-Azbai) "i hear strange noises in corner" (Lavaland Wastes (214,69,2))

You then decided to go towards it, as shown here, provided by the person who requested an investigation:


This makes us suspect that you used your knowledge as ghost to rush to the general area of the ruin, hear the mi-go noise, then run back and say you heard something. The fact that you knew that there were claymores there when you spoke in deadchat before spawning in does not help your case.

You've been warned for rushing for weapons and powergaming before. The fact that you somehow discovered that there was a ruin relatively far away within 1 minute doesn't really fly when you already knew there was a claymore as a ghost.

[Yobrocharlie]

I went over to that location to farm the legion for more bodies for the necropolis as I have said before-
Fact of the matter being im being punished for digging a hole to nowhere on more than frivolous pretenses

Also ashwalkers are antags so its perfectly fine to powergame as them.

hell i dont mind really taking the punishment considering how insignificant it is but the note? thats what fucks me.

Also as you already said this ban is purely speculative and sure it may be good speculation but that doesn't change the fact of the matter that it still is.

[Archie700]

You knew that claymores were spawned as a observer and where they were on the ruin. When you spawned in, you immediately went to that area in less than 1 minute 10 seconds on the basis of "farming legion cores", heard what you wanted to hear, then ran back, told everyone, and proceeded to start mining towards that location.

It is very easy to conclude that you pretended to do so in order to get immediate IC justification for something you found out in deadchat.

I don't believe that this was coincidental. The note and ban stay as they are. This is denied.

Relevant rules:
Rule 2

2. Do not use information gained outside of in-character means.
I.e. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Discord, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.

Roleplay Rule 7

7. Do not powergame.
Powergaming is using an in-game mechanic or game knowledge to give your own character an advantage at the expense of everyone else. Powergaming can take several forms, but it is generally rooted in playing-to-win or a focus on playing the game instead of roleplay. Playing your character should always be more important than playing the game.

[Yobrocharlie]

Rule 7 doesnt apply to antags, and it was purely coincidental the fact that something else happened three months ago prooves a total of jack fucking shit.

I am oh so sorry for actually participating in this admin event I will remember in the future that every little fucking thing i do is being scrutinized like digging a fucking hole and I should just not play the game, and instead I should just do what the admins want me to do and be afk somewhere for 99% of every signle goddamn fucking round.

[Scriptis]

Rule 7 doesnt apply to antags ...

This needs to be clarified:

Ash walkers aren't considered a full antagonist; their flavor text comes first.

Such as roles spawned from ruins, including ash walkers, free golems, ancient station crew, etc. Escalation is massively relaxed with them. They must follow their roleplay guidelines found in the flavour text.

While this gives you permission to kill miners on lavaland, the strict adherence to the flavor text is the same reason you're not allowed to go station-side immediately to kill people. Your ability to powergame is still limited, and rules 2 and 7 are absolutely still enforced here.

Aside:

Spoiler:

instead I should just do what the admins want me to do and be afk somewhere for 99% of every signle goddamn fucking round.

1. Don't be a dick

[Yobrocharlie]

Okay look man sorry for being a bit rude that was uncalled for, you can understand my frustration when the only reason that im here in the first place is because you guys seemed to be paying special attention to me at least from my perspective, and because I decided to act on something with valid IC reasoning.

for anybody else besides me this punishment would not matter at all, but for me specifically, this punishment matters a metric shit ton, and this punishment is extremely frivolous.

[Vekter]

I will say that this is in line with other punishments that have been handed out previously for similar issues.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=26211 - 7 day server ban for scouting out the gluttony ruin as a ghost to rush it as a ghost miner.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=25502 - 14 day server ban and a month from ghost roles for mapping out to the mining station, then taking an Ashwalker role and storming the station immediately.

[Yobrocharlie]

This implies I did this in the first place, which was impossible not to do considering if you spent any amount of time observing you would see the entire ruin which was a 3x3 room.

I wasn't scouting out that place nor unlike the other two did I actually get anything from this nor did I have foul intentions like either of these two that you stated previously, not to mention this wasn't static map generation or a static ruin but was an admin event. Keep in mind all I did was dig a hole

The place was made to be discovered no? What's wrong with investigating it ICly with proper justification? Just because I commented on it didnt mean I went into being an ash walker with the soul intention of powergaming no I went into being an ash walker with the intention of participating in the event which I tried to do.

[Yobrocharlie]

At the end of the day the punishment doesn't mean much it's just the note itself.
I would eat a week ban for this if it meant it would leave no note because the note really just sends the wrong message.

[Archie700]

I can reword the note if you want, please tell me of any issues you have with the note.

[Yobrocharlie]

“During an ashwalker icebox event, used meta information obtained from being an observer to go to a location they would otherwise not know about”

Or something along the lines of that, I wasn’t trying to powergame or anything like that I just know from an admin perspective it sucks when you make something and that something is just ignored, I can’t prove this was my intention or anything and it certainly seems as if I had poor intentions on this one which is why I’ll probably just have to take the L on this one.

[Archie700]

Your suggestion is basically just removing the context for how the meta information was gained and used.
The note will stay as it is, I do not believe it is harsh on you and it is accurate to the events that occured.

[Yobrocharlie]

Yea you are right.
It just sucks cause now cowbotty boy will have a reason to deny my next appeal because he goes out of his way to find recent info about me.

[Archie700]

If there's no other issues, then we may close this

[Timberpoes]

Clarification: The only thing currently public about your ban is this appeal. See https://tgstation13.org/tgdb/publicbans.php and https://centcom.melonmesa.com/viewer/view/yobrocharlie - We only publicise permabans.

By appealing this ban, you've sorta honestly just made it public knowledge to anyone that cares to read our forums.

[Yobrocharlie]

Timber, if only that were true-
I know you only publicize permanbans but he goes out of his way to find out about recent notes and stuff.

My situation with other servers sucks right now but TG has been great to me everything in full considered.

I know this is the second time you’ve told me this and thank you for taking the time to do so.

I don’t think there would be any more issues with this and I would not object to this tickets closure.

(Also why am I not a certified player)

[Timberpoes]

(Also why am I not a certified player)

You have to link your in-game ckey to your forum account. It's the same idea as linking to Discord. There's a verb for it in the list somewhere in-game.

[Yobrocharlie]

thank you timber

[Archie700]

If there's nothing else about the note then this is resolved

[Vekter]

Yeah, I'm moving this, PM me if you want it moved back.