[Thunder12345] ShadowedEnvy - A Technicality

[ShadowedEnvy]

BYOND account: ShadowedEnvy
Character name: Keira Easter
Ban type: Server
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Exploit abuse to get onto CentCom with the stated intent of griefing a group of russian players playing mafia ("They just started a mafia game" "Let's go break in"). Refused to give up the exploit when asked. Appeal on the forums when you're ready to explain how the exploit works.
Time ban was placed: 2023-09-23 20:31:00
Server you were playing on when banned: Campbell
Round ID in which ban was placed: 215109
Your side of the story: Prior to the incident, I knew there were a number of russian players playing mafia, and I wanted to surprise them by breaking in and surprising them with myself, then likely being deleted when the mafia game finished. It was my intention to give them a funny and surprising experience, and given that being able to go into each other's rooms would not actually spoil each other's roles, it would not even ruin the round of mafia. My intention to "grief" was not brought up a single time in my communications with Thunder.

As I was heading to the mafia area, indestructible walls were suddenly created around me which cut off large parts of CentCom, with no admins visible in the list and no communication. I want to note here that this took place 23 hours into the round, so everything had had a great deal of work put into it, and I wasn't happy to have someone silently cutting it off. When the ahelp began, Thunder was rude and abrupt, only ordering me to explain the exploit to get into CentCom, which colored the rest of our interactions from that point.

Why you think you should be unbanned: This ban was made on the technicality that I did not explain an exploit to the admin in the ahelp. Firstly, I have already explained it to Vektor in the discord. More importantly, Thunder was inconsistent in applying the technicalities of the rules. As noted in the ban, the group I was going to visit were russians, speaking Russian, as they have multiple times over the past several days in multiple rounds of mafia, as well as in deadchat. Presumably, Thunder was inconsistent because they were under the impression that I was going to actually reduce people's enjoyment of the round, while the russians speaking Russian weren't. And I agree! The rules should be there to enhance the fun of the game, not to keep it down. Campbell is inherently unlike the other tg servers, with its extremely long rounds and leisurely server culture. But Thunder's actions even from that point of view were unacceptable. An admin abruptly coming in and closing off areas you've 'unlocked' twenty hours into a shift should not be something to worry about when playing there.

And if that's not the case, and Campbell should be ruled exactly like the other servers, regardless of the obvious manpower issues in trying to do that, then Thunder should not have allowed the russians to keep speaking Russian the entire time the ahelp was going on, including in deachat, and should have made at least the most basic effort to make an announcement or simple OOC message that only English is allowed. And the fact that they did not do that, even once I was dead and not a threat to anyone's round, would show that they were clearly more interested in punishing me than actually enforcing the rules as they are supposed to be.

[Vekter]

Hello, given that you're invoking my name I'm going to go ahead and throw in my two cents.

1) I have no way of knowing if the exploit you used was one that's already been reported or not, but it hasn't been fixed, which leads me to believe that you haven't. I don't remember the specifics, which is why I asked Thunder to ask you how you did it. You insisted in the ticket that you were refusing to explain it, so that's how we ended up here. I feel like it's important to note that Thunder did not ban you after saying you'd explained it to me - you were explicitly told to explain how you do the exploit, you refused, so you were banned.
2) As I told you last time, if you have reported an exploit, you are expected to stop using it. Further use of exploits that you are aware are exploits can and will result in bans.

[ShadowedEnvy]

I told you in #help-tickets under Midnight. I don't know if you save those or not, but I used the same method to get to CentCom as I told you there. Additionally, in the end, I did not refuse to explain the exploit. Thunder simply told me that I had "run out of road" when I criticized them for their actions in the ahelp. I was in the process of explaining it in the ahelps.

[Vekter]

I told you in #help-tickets under Midnight. I don't know if you save those or not, but I used the same method to get to CentCom as I told you there.

Then why would you think that you'd be permitted to continue using an exploit when you'd been told it was one?

[TheBibleMelts]

hey comrade - how did you, as a crewmember, know that some people were off playing a game on the centcomm z-level and their exact location? intuition?

[ShadowedEnvy]

I don't think I was told I couldn't use it, but I don't have access to the discord messages, so I don't know. Regardless, are you actually saying that anyone who goes to CentCom on Campbell can expect a ban?

In response to TheBibleMelts question: I metagamed. I'm not going to mince words, metagaming is a large part of Campbell's culture, because the way that the game is structured does not lend itself well to long rounds without it. I don't metagame on any other server.

[TheBibleMelts]

I don't think I was told I couldn't use it, but I don't have access to the discord messages, so I don't know. Regardless, are you actually saying that anyone who goes to CentCom can expect a ban?

In response to TheBibleMelts question: I metagamed. I'm not going to mince words, metagaming is a large part of Campbell's culture, because the way that the game is structured does not lend itself well to long rounds without it. I don't metagame on any other server.

miss me with this server culture nonsense.

direct me to the segment of our rules that specify Campbell as being the place where players are allowed to disregard some of our most strictly upheld rules.

[Vekter]

I don't think I was told I couldn't use it, but I don't have access to the discord messages, so I don't know. Regardless, are you actually saying that anyone who goes to CentCom can expect a ban?

I admittedly don't think I was explicit about it at the time, but let this be notice for anyone involved - if you've been made aware that something is an exploit and you use it again, you will likely eat a ban.

If you find an exploit and we find you using it, you will be asked how to replicate it and, assuming you provide clear and accurate instructions, you won't be banned. If you refuse to, we have to assume you intend to continue using it and ban you.

Players are not meant to be able to get to Centcom in regular play. If you do so, you are performing an exploit. If you really want to explore or hang out on Centcom, you can ask an admin to let you do so if they feel up to it, or run a local server for you and your friends.

[ShadowedEnvy]

direct me to the segment of our rules that specify Campbell as being the place where players are allowed to disregard some of our most strictly upheld rules.

Rule 0: "admins can disregard other rules to this end should it prove beneficial for the experience of the shift"

Again, why did Thunder not deal with the people openly speaking Russian if all the servers must be held to the same standard?

[Timberpoes]

Again, why did Thunder not deal with the people openly speaking Russian if all the servers must be held to the same standard?

From our note database:


It was handled.

[TheBibleMelts]

Rule 0: "admins can disregard other rules to this end should it prove beneficial for the experience of the shift"

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there was no administrator that okayed either your use of exploit, or the metagaming to know where these players were. you can enjoy the leisure that the campbell servers playstyle provides without infracting on two separate rules that both can lead to permanent bans.

this appeal is denied, but it's up to Thunder to decide how long they'd like you to wait for a re-appeal, or to change this to a timed ban. if you feel the griefing segment of your note to be inaccurate, i'd personally suggest replacing that with the use of meta-knowledge instead.

[ShadowedEnvy]

No part of the note is accurate, so if you're not removing the ban, then you clearly need to completely replace it.

[TheBibleMelts]

let's break it down

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Exploit abuse to get onto CentCom

- we confirmed you did this because you were caught on the spot doing it.

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with the stated intent of griefing a group of russian players playing mafia

- if you didn't intend to grief them, you intended to break in and interrupt their game - and used metaknowledge in order to do so. it's not any better, but if it's purity you're going for i'm sure Thunder can take a look at rewording this to specify your confirmed rulebreak as opposed to the theoretical one you were committing.

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 ("They just started a mafia game" "Let's go break in").

- these were things I'm assuming you said prior to the break-in, so i don't know if the 'no part of the note is accurate' bit is going to hold water here either.

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Refused to give up the exploit when asked.

- i reviewed the ticket, they asked you a whopping 5 times and ended up needing to tell you they were about to apply a ban before you begrudgingly gave up any information at all - and even then, when pressed for an extra detail you doubled back down on acting obtuse about it.

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Appeal on the forums when you're ready to explain how the exploit works.

- insert text here

you had every chance to avoid a ban altogether if you hadn't decided to try and die on some strange little hill about not explaining something to an administrator about abuse of an exploit.

[Thunder11]

It seems like everything I was going to tell you has been covered already by everyone else. You haven't shown any willingness to do as I asked and explain your exploit for reaching CentCom, nor shown any understanding of why this isn't allowed. Campbell is not a rules-free wasteland for legal bug abuse, the rules still apply as normal.

This is denied, come back and re-appeal in two months.

[ShadowedEnvy]

I have shown a great deal of willingness to explain the exploit, but I agree that I haven't shown any understanding of why it isn't allowed. And I doubt I will.

[Vekter]

I have shown a great deal of willingness to explain the exploit, but I agree that I haven't shown any understanding of why it isn't allowed. And I doubt I will.

Players are not meant to be able to get to Centcom without admin intervention. Any instance of doing so has historically been considered an exploit in every single instance. The server you are doing so on is completely irrelevant - you cannot do it, you are not permitted to do it. Abusing an exploit and refusing to tell an admin about it when questioned is an immediate permanent ban in all cases. Abusing an exploit that you have already reported and are aware is an exploit is an immediate permanent ban in all cases.

[ShadowedEnvy]

Abusing an exploit that you have already reported and are aware is an exploit is an immediate permanent ban in all cases.

You definitely could've been a lot clearer about that when I outright told you on discord that I was planning on using it again.

And yes, the not answering questions is the technicality referenced by this post's title, considering I already explained it, and was in the process of explaining it again in the ahelps. I feel like you just haven't been reading anything in this entire thread, Vekter.

[Vekter]

I didn't see your message about intending to use it again.

[ShadowedEnvy]

"Don't fix it too soon, I have more ideas for Campbell"

What else could this mean? Especially with the context of me having just used the exploit for a post in reports-from-campbell?

[Vekter]

"Don't fix it too soon, I have more ideas for Campbell"

What else could this mean? Especially with the context of me having just used the exploit for a post in reports-from-campbell?

1) I didn't get a notification from Discord, I literally did not see that you had responded to me.
2) It's still not relevant because you were asked by another admin how you did it and you refused to explain.

[TheBibleMelts]

it's time for this one to sleep.