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viewtopic.php?f=7&p=705624#p70562420 minutes. Can we get any lower?
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viewtopic.php?f=7&p=705624#p705624Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
What the fuck am I acting like? I said I found it weird they didnt post it in their original 5 points, I couldnt give less of a shit if it was a woman or a man who got harassed, no one should be getting harassed and if you bring it up to the admins its significantly easier for it to be dealt with.Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:34 pmBecause he's a guy, and guys don't like to mention or bring up sexual harassment because they think it makes them seem weak, or they don't think they should bother because it won't be taken seriously, since people tend to handwave sexual harassment against males.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:30 pm I'm wondering why sinful didnt put the sexual harassment stuff in his original 5 points if it was the reason for killing the guy and cutting his limbs off.
(1) If a total stranger tries to kill you or severely harm you, with zero prior interactions, they are acting like an antagonist.
(2) Shooting a syringe of chloral at someone wordlessly qualifies as trying to kill or severely harm them, and therefore they are acting like an antagonist.
(3) "Finding no antagonist gear" is completely irrelevant to whether or not their action was acting like an antag. Heretics often have no gear, traitors don't need to buy gear, lings have no gear -- this shouldn't factor into the decision whatsoever.
(4) Vekter claims I should have realized they shot me in order to incapacitate me, because I was punching the clown. I disagree. Chloral hydrate is a lethal chem -- it isn't a baton or a morphine syringe. It has lethal intent. So incapacitation as a motive was right out for me. More importantly I have no reason to expect a random person to poison me over this -- they have no context, they're uninvolved, they didn't even see the clown using their shockhands from earlier. They should have no part in the conflict. They didn't utter a word. Their only possible role here to me was "opportunist," trying to make off with an unnoticed kill during the chaos, which happens often on LRP.
(5) Even if you assume for whatever reason they weren't acting like an antag: Damaging someone further after you kill them is covered by escalation rules.
He mentions it in the more stuff but thats to highlight that the chemist was banned for metagrudging him and "some bad stuff" by which I assume the sexual harassment point? If the sexual harassment stuff was his primary motive it would make sense to be included in his 5 original reasons
Imagine if it was a female player being called a submissive waif in a contextually malicious manner instead. Would you and everyone else be acting the same way in this peanut?
While this is true, just because it's easier for admins to deal with doesn't mean there isn't a level of mental burden put upon the person reporting it. You can't expect the ideal outcome every single time. Admins don't need to be mind readers but even Vekter was capable of realizing that this was over the line. He just seems to think sinful is somehow impervious to the damage that kind of harassment can cause.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:38 pm no one should be getting harassed and if you bring it up to the admins its significantly easier for it to be dealt with.
I'm not.Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:25 pm Please seriously consider if you aren't subconsciously downplaying this, Vekter.
This is of course true, and it might seem hard but seriously reporting this type of shit is really the best way to have it handled. You of course cant expect the ideal outcome every time but these types of things are usually note/ban -> perma territory (for the person doing the harassment).Pepper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:42 pmWhile this is true, just because it's easier for admins to deal with doesn't mean there isn't a level of mental burden put upon the person reporting it. You can't expect the ideal outcome every single time. Admins don't need to be mind readers but even Vekter was capable of realizing that this was over the line. He just seems to think sinful is somehow impervious to the damage that kind of harassment can cause.TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:38 pm no one should be getting harassed and if you bring it up to the admins its significantly easier for it to be dealt with.
I spent an hour yesterday talking to both Sinful and the head admins about the best way to address specifically JUST the harassment issue here, so you can miss me with that "omg he doesn't care " shit.
Okay, thanks for addressing it Vekter. Glad to see it was handled.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:58 pmI spent an hour yesterday talking to both Sinful and the head admins about the best way to address specifically JUST the harassment issue here, so you can miss me with that "omg he doesn't care " shit.
The fact that I didn't slam dunk the guy who did it and then turn around and gently pat Sinful on the head and say "it's okay, your actions were justified because he said mean things about you" doesn't mean I don't care about the impact his words had.
Yeah, I'm sorry for being so aggressive about it, but I don't like when people insist I'm not taking a serious matter seriously because they don't see everything we do behind the scenes.Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:04 pm Okay, thanks for addressing it Vekter. Glad to see it was handled.
Sinful wasn't medical staff, he had no business being in medbay and certainly not dragging a fight from outside of medbay to inside it. If anything, getting injected with potassium and water for killing someone in medbay is fuck around and find out.TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:03 pm getting your limbs removed (in medbay) for shooting someone with a syringe wordlessly (in medbay) is very standard fuck around and find out ngl
i just really like the painting i think its funnyVekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:49 pmYeah, and I deleted that stupid painting because this is probably the fourth time I've been made aware of someone using it to antagonize Sinful.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:48 pm >come get your axle brady catboy prints in the library
ahhhhh this explains it, i myself have been victim to axles over escalation when it comes to giving out axle brady catboy prints
ironically it was vekter that answered that ahelp
Again - not relevant to the issue at hand. Pepperoni got blasted for metagrudging the next round, but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.
E: Also this thread title sucks because I gave him an opportunity to modify the note to be more accurate, he's the one that immediately pushed it to headmins.
Information incompleteness is a huge part of the game.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:31 pm We've already established that chloral hydrate cannot kill you at the amount that fits in a syringe. This is also removing any context about you being in the middle of beating the piss out of the clown. Your opinion on the matter is completely irrelevant to the facts. You made a mistake because you didn't have all of the facts and were punished for it.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
Yeah, well, Sinful doesn't, and it's causing problems, so I got rid of it. Sorry.
It's not really relevant, honestly. The only information readily available to the chemist at the time was that Sinful had brought a fight with the clown into medbay, was making a huge mess, and was beating the clown into crit. We can't expect players to act on information they don't have, nor can we expect them to go about collecting every relevant piece of information when something time sensitive is happening. He made a decision (stop Sinful from killing the clown) and Sinful got to retaliate (again, critting the chemist was fine, it's everything after that I have issue with).Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:33 pm Gotta add here that the clown was a bit of an unfunny shitter, being a general ass to everyone, and kept shocking everyone in medbay. Even tho we were trying to deescalate the situation for all parties involved (at least I was), I have no clue why anyone would jump all the way to shoot a chloral syringe to Axle.
Right, but Sinful had enough information to know what was in that syringe when he made the choice to dismember the chemist. He was incorrect in believing the chemist had tried to kill him and broke the rules in how he retaliated. Nothing the chemist did could be considered a rule break here.
i just realized you are also chafe 'ugly dude'Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:33 pm Gotta add here that the clown was a bit of an unfunny shitter, being a general ass to everyone, and kept shocking everyone in medbay. Even tho we were trying to deescalate the situation for all parties involved (at least I was), I have no clue why anyone would jump all the way to shoot a chloral syringe to Axle.
The question isn't whether he was right, but whether he was reasonable to come to that conclusion. If it takes the creator of the chem multiple paragraphs to explain the thresholds between incapacitating and killing for the chem then I do think that yes he was reasonable in assuming someone shot a lethal chemical at him.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pm
Right, but Sinful had enough information to know what was in that syringe when he made the choice to dismember the chemist. He was incorrect in believing the chemist had tried to kill him and broke the rules in how he retaliated. Nothing the chemist did could be considered a rule break here.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
Don't jump to defense so quickly Vekter I'm just adding some more context to the whole picture, never said what Sinful did was completely justified.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pmIt's not really relevant, honestly. The only information readily available to the chemist at the time was that Sinful had brought a fight with the clown into medbay, was making a huge mess, and was beating the clown into crit. We can't expect players to act on information they don't have, nor can we expect them to go about collecting every relevant piece of information when something time sensitive is happening. He made a decision (stop Sinful from killing the clown) and Sinful got to retaliate (again, critting the chemist was fine, it's everything after that I have issue with).Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:33 pm Gotta add here that the clown was a bit of an unfunny shitter, being a general ass to everyone, and kept shocking everyone in medbay. Even tho we were trying to deescalate the situation for all parties involved (at least I was), I have no clue why anyone would jump all the way to shoot a chloral syringe to Axle.
I had the impression you knew. But this is good, means all our previous interactions were always pristinely IC.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pm i just realized you are also chafe 'ugly dude'
thats so fucking funny now that i know that
All good, I'm not being defensive, just clearing up any misconceptions.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
thanks for taking it seriously, vekter. this is a topic that's kind of sore for me so i'm fully aware that i can get kinda clouded by it but i trust that you took it seriously and dealt with it properly, it means a lot. no player should have to put up with that shit.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:44 pmI'm not.Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:25 pm Please seriously consider if you aren't subconsciously downplaying this, Vekter.
There's some context missing here by explicit request of Sinful but I did take the matter of what happened in a later round very seriously when it was brought to my attention. The twink comment was never mentioned to me as a reason for Sinful's actions and the matter regarding Pepperoni printing those stupid posters and later impersonating him as a comms agent was handled in both cases to Sinful's satisfaction.
I appreciate both you and Pepper's concerns, though. I always take matters of sexual harassment seriously regardless of gender. Had it been listed as a reason for his actions, I would have addressed it in the appeal.
For the record, it wouldn't have changed my decision much, though without Pepperoni's later actions it would have earned him a short ban in a vacuum. I don't think it would have changed much about the note on Sinful's end as it's still a valid reason to escalate but something I would handle administratively, not in character.
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
This applies to all hardstuns tbf. I dont think the ruling that stuns from random crew count as lethals for escalation purposes because they make you completely helpless and you have no way of knowing what the other person is gonna do with you once you're helpless is considered current or valid though.Chocodemon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:32 pm It's already been mentioned before but Chloral hydrate is lethal in that it leaves you open and vulnerable. Last time a chemist shot me with it they proceeded to cuff me and shove me into their gas chamber/incinerator within the window opportunity the chloral gave them.
I thought that genuinely not knowing an obscure fact (Chloral hydrate the classic antag's murder chem of choice that rapidly sleeps you and is used for lethal injections is actually only lethal in multi-syringe amounts so you cant legally consider it lethal escalation when someone runs up to you in a fight and shoots you with it) generally gave you a certain amount of good faith protections, like when sec execute the wrong person because of a good faith mistake (detective called the wrong persons prints or whatever) or a fresh assistant doing the SM puts the bypass to max they dont get in as much trouble for it?Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pm Right, but Sinful had enough information to know what was in that syringe when he made the choice to dismember the chemist. He was incorrect in believing the chemist had tried to kill him and broke the rules in how he retaliated. Nothing the chemist did could be considered a rule break here.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
Sinfulpiss had the initiative to drink multiver, so he knows he isn't in any immediate danger. Dismembering the chemist that was in critical condition achieved nothing other than to fuck them up.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:19 pmThis applies to all hardstuns tbf. I dont think the ruling that stuns from random crew count as lethals for escalation purposes because they make you completely helpless and you have no way of knowing what the other person is gonna do with you once you're helpless is considered current or valid though.Chocodemon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:32 pm It's already been mentioned before but Chloral hydrate is lethal in that it leaves you open and vulnerable. Last time a chemist shot me with it they proceeded to cuff me and shove me into their gas chamber/incinerator within the window opportunity the chloral gave them.
I thought that genuinely not knowing an obscure fact (Chloral hydrate the classic antag's murder chem of choice that rapidly sleeps you and is used for lethal injections is actually only lethal in multi-syringe amounts so you cant legally consider it lethal escalation when someone runs up to you in a fight and shoots you with it) generally gave you a certain amount of good faith protections, like when sec execute the wrong person because of a good faith mistake (detective called the wrong persons prints or whatever) or a fresh assistant doing the SM puts the bypass to max they dont get in as much trouble for it?Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pm Right, but Sinful had enough information to know what was in that syringe when he made the choice to dismember the chemist. He was incorrect in believing the chemist had tried to kill him and broke the rules in how he retaliated. Nothing the chemist did could be considered a rule break here.
Not really, but that's not really relevant to this appeal since Sinful believed the chemist.Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:25 pm Is there any way to verify what was in a syringe gun other than what the chemist tells you what was in it? I'd assume anything getting shot at me via syringe gun is probably intent to kill.
Makes senseTurbonerd wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:24 pmSinfulpiss had the initiative to drink multiver, so he knows he isn't in any immediate danger. Dismembering the chemist that was in critical condition achieved nothing other than to fuck them up.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 5:19 pm
I thought that genuinely not knowing an obscure fact (Chloral hydrate the classic antag's murder chem of choice that rapidly sleeps you and is used for lethal injections is actually only lethal in multi-syringe amounts so you cant legally consider it lethal escalation when someone runs up to you in a fight and shoots you with it) generally gave you a certain amount of good faith protections, like when sec execute the wrong person because of a good faith mistake (detective called the wrong persons prints or whatever) or a fresh assistant doing the SM puts the bypass to max they dont get in as much trouble for it?Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:45 pm Right, but Sinful had enough information to know what was in that syringe when he made the choice to dismember the chemist. He was incorrect in believing the chemist had tried to kill him and broke the rules in how he retaliated. Nothing the chemist did could be considered a rule break here.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
exactly, both are IC. Seeing a fight in your department and jumping immediately to shooting a syringe gun into the guy who wont let up is them fucking around and finding out, but getting chopped up in your department for doing that is you being on the receiving end of finding outVekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:12 pmSinful wasn't medical staff, he had no business being in medbay and certainly not dragging a fight from outside of medbay to inside it. If anything, getting injected with potassium and water for killing someone in medbay is fuck around and find out.TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:03 pm getting your limbs removed (in medbay) for shooting someone with a syringe wordlessly (in medbay) is very standard fuck around and find out ngl
Fully agree with this post.CPTANT wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 8:44 am If it requires a multi paragraph post by the guy that implemented the feature to explain the consequences, then maybe this isn't knowledge every random player should be expected to know.
1. sinfulbliss was reasonable to assume he was shot with a lethal substance with the knowledge he had.
2. Being shot with a lethal substance is antagonistic behaviour
Conclusion: dumb note.
Also obvious metagrudging.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:05 pm Chloral Hydrate is nonlethal in the same way a stun baton is nonlethal; if you're not wearing a bright red security uniform, and you wordlessly try to incapacitate me, I'm going to assume you were trying to kill me and respond very lethally.
Yeah but the guy was wearing a bright blue chemist uniform wasn't he?blackdav123 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:23 pmdatorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:05 pm Chloral Hydrate is nonlethal in the same way a stun baton is nonlethal; if you're not wearing a bright red security uniform, and you wordlessly try to incapacitate me, I'm going to assume you were trying to kill me and respond very lethally.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
So heres a question right. Escalation rules saysconrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:01 pmYeah but the guy was wearing a bright blue chemist uniform wasn't he?Chloral Hydrate is nonlethal in the same way a stun baton is nonlethal; if you're not wearing a bright red security uniform, and you wordlessly try to incapacitate me, I'm going to assume you were trying to kill me and respond very lethally.
Sinful started beating up a clown in front of his place of work, so he shot sinful with a syringe. Sinful's response was to crit him.
If this was the end of it, I'd be a happy camper and completely disagree with the note.
However, Sinful then proceeded to dismember and rob the guy. That's what got him noted.
Am I missing something here? And I'm not talking about the creepy behaviour. Vekter already disclosed that he banned the other guy for that.
Couldn't it be said that robbing/dismembering counts as an IC issue that is just following escalation rules?Escalation rules wrote: Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
That's ignoring the rest of the escalation policy.Boot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:31 pmSo heres a question right. Escalation rules saysconrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:01 pmYeah but the guy was wearing a bright blue chemist uniform wasn't he?Chloral Hydrate is nonlethal in the same way a stun baton is nonlethal; if you're not wearing a bright red security uniform, and you wordlessly try to incapacitate me, I'm going to assume you were trying to kill me and respond very lethally.
Sinful started beating up a clown in front of his place of work, so he shot sinful with a syringe. Sinful's response was to crit him.
If this was the end of it, I'd be a happy camper and completely disagree with the note.
However, Sinful then proceeded to dismember and rob the guy. That's what got him noted.
Am I missing something here? And I'm not talking about the creepy behaviour. Vekter already disclosed that he banned the other guy for that.Couldn't it be said that robbing/dismembering counts as an IC issue that is just following escalation rules?Escalation rules wrote: Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
If not then what do you think 'avenge damage' is in regards to?
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
If you wanna run down the full escalation path we can.conrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:46 pmThat's ignoring the rest of the escalation policy.Boot wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:31 pmSo heres a question right. Escalation rules saysconrad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:01 pmYeah but the guy was wearing a bright blue chemist uniform wasn't he?Chloral Hydrate is nonlethal in the same way a stun baton is nonlethal; if you're not wearing a bright red security uniform, and you wordlessly try to incapacitate me, I'm going to assume you were trying to kill me and respond very lethally.
Sinful started beating up a clown in front of his place of work, so he shot sinful with a syringe. Sinful's response was to crit him.
If this was the end of it, I'd be a happy camper and completely disagree with the note.
However, Sinful then proceeded to dismember and rob the guy. That's what got him noted.
Am I missing something here? And I'm not talking about the creepy behaviour. Vekter already disclosed that he banned the other guy for that.Couldn't it be said that robbing/dismembering counts as an IC issue that is just following escalation rules?Escalation rules wrote: Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
If not then what do you think 'avenge damage' is in regards to?
From what I understand, Sinful delimbed the guy, robbed him and left. That isn't exactly showing effort in getting them treated.
The syringe wasn't lethal. At the end of the day, Sinful's character didn't die. The guy died and was way more inconvenienced. I have fired triacid syringes at tiders as CMO with no adminstrative issue since if you're breaking into my department and causing trouble I'm assuming you're either an antag or a shitter. That bit is entirely within the realm of possibility for the chemist, and people are just choosing to ignore that because of some other behaviour that was already dealt with adminstratively and was, by sinful's own admission, unrelated to the incident of the note (well, his admission until his very last message where he changed his mind).
There are many circumstances where this note could've been completely invalid. If the chemist was, in fact, an unrelated crewmember to medbay. If sinful found that his PDA was unlocked with TC shop open, or if he found a bunch of suspicious chemicals on the guy. So far, it was "I started beating up a clown in medbay, the chemist shot me with a sleepy chem. So I delimbed the chemist, stole his stuff and now I'm mad I was noted for it." Honestly, with these facts in place, I'd have daybanned him for an unjustified kill.
If I got the facts wrong please feel free to correct me. I'm very easily convinced.
This is disengenious - Sinful simply said he did not want to publicize the logs by making an admin complaint on Archie - speaking of...Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 2:44 pm
I'm not.
There's some context missing here by explicit request of Sinful but I did take the matter of what happened in a later round very seriously when it was brought to my attention. The twink comment was never mentioned to me as a reason for Sinful's actions and the matter regarding Pepperoni printing those stupid posters and later impersonating him as a comms agent was handled in both cases to Sinful's satisfaction.
New information revealed to me says that you're directly involved with this specific course of events. It would be nice for you to mention that instead of astroturfing this thread.Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:07 pm I think we need to state that ultimately, for this case, the next two incidents do not matter for this judgement, which was confined to only the first round.
If we're going to use evidence from the next two rounds to say "sinful doesn't deserve this note", then we would going far outside what we usually do for overescalation judgements
In your discord ticket - which you dragged on for over twelve hours, by the way, SInful directly brought up the sexual harassment logs to which you repeatedly waved them away saying "this is about you." You didn't take it seriously at all... it was only after repeated attempts to try and look at the complaining parties conduct (in his own words, sinful had to "force" it out of you), that any kind of care was given on the situation at all. Even after the fact, you still refuse to acknowledge that this behavior happened before and after their fight. Instead of taking much more important logs of sexual harassment seriously, you continually tried to weasel your way out of it by calling it "Not your problem", then pressing on with hounding sinful over killing the guy who was harassing him to begin with.
This is just untrue... as I mentioned above you repeatedly handwaved these logs to sinful in your ticket, and despite his attempt at reaching out for help you continue to pretend like his words had no impact on his delimbing of the chemist (BEFORE their syringe interaction) purely on the basis that he didn't express it to you in a manner that you found to be somehow appropriate.
Nobody is asking you to be patronizing. Adults tend to be able to look at the totality of a circumstance with some semblance of empathy - in this particular instance you have this iron-clad delusion that sinful can only have acted in bad faith during this fight.
Calling someone a "twinky femboy" and shooting them full of a date rape drug is not something you could consider rulebreaking? You are sick.
Would you care to explain to me how you had access to a private Discord ticket between an admin and a player? That information isn't meant to be shared, so unless Sinful directly gave it to you, you shouldn't be able to see it.Pepper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:32 pmIn your discord ticket - which you dragged on for over twelve hours, by the way, SInful directly brought up the sexual harassment logs to which you repeatedly waved them away saying "this is about you." You didn't take it seriously at all... it was only after repeated attempts to try and look at the complaining parties conduct (in his own words, sinful had to "force" it out of you), that any kind of care was given on the situation at all. Even after the fact, you still refuse to acknowledge that this behavior happened before and after their fight. Instead of taking much more important logs of sexual harassment seriously, you continually tried to weasel your way out of it by calling it "Not your problem", then pressing on with hounding sinful over killing the guy who was harassing him to begin with.
This information was shared to me because you are actively trying to lie about your dismissal of his attempts at getting help.
Cool. I'm done talking about it at this point. If you have issue with how I handled it, the complaints forum is right there my dude. Otherwise I'm taking a break from the forums.
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
It's a discord ticket. The platform where neither party is always going to be there at the same time. You can cover twelve hours of discord discussion with 3 messages.
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
In these parts, we call "astroturfing" by its real name: empty posting.Pepper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:32 pm blah blah blahNew information revealed to me says that you're directly involved with this specific course of events. It would be nice for you to mention that instead of astroturfing this thread.Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:07 pm I think we need to state that ultimately, for this case, the next two incidents do not matter for this judgement, which was confined to only the first round.
If we're going to use evidence from the next two rounds to say "sinful doesn't deserve this note", then we would going far outside what we usually do for overescalation judgements
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
nobody tell vekter that a second version of it exists named AI edition. art lives on.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 3:20 pmi just really like the painting i think its funnyVekter wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:49 pmYeah, and I deleted that stupid painting because this is probably the fourth time I've been made aware of someone using it to antagonize Sinful.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 1:48 pm >come get your axle brady catboy prints in the library
ahhhhh this explains it, i myself have been victim to axles over escalation when it comes to giving out axle brady catboy prints
ironically it was vekter that answered that ahelp
Again - not relevant to the issue at hand. Pepperoni got blasted for metagrudging the next round, but it has nothing to do with what we're discussing here.
E: Also this thread title sucks because I gave him an opportunity to modify the note to be more accurate, he's the one that immediately pushed it to headmins.
The ticket was opened at three in the morning and was responded to the next day. The reason it's dragged out so long is because Vekter closed the ticket then rebwoinked sinful for the same thing like 10 hours later.NoxVS wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:01 pm
It's a discord ticket. The platform where neither party is always going to be there at the same time. You can cover twelve hours of discord discussion with 3 messages.
I am going to take a wild guess that it wasn't twelve hours of constant discussion in which Vekter had a gun pointed at Sinful the entire time, demanding immediate responses. If the ticket dragged on for twelve hours, eleven of those were probably spent waiting for the other person to respond.
Uh, yeah.NoxVS wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:01 pmIt's a discord ticket. The platform where neither party is always going to be there at the same time. You can cover twelve hours of discord discussion with 3 messages.
I am going to take a wild guess that it wasn't twelve hours of constant discussion in which Vekter had a gun pointed at Sinful the entire time, demanding immediate responses. If the ticket dragged on for twelve hours, eleven of those were probably spent waiting for the other person to respond.
Really its just something that is dangerously close to misrepresenting things in order to stir up drama. Which isn't allowed by the way. As a friendly reminder to readers. Especially if you're going to be a hostile douche-waffle about it.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:14 pmUh, yeah.NoxVS wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:01 pmIt's a discord ticket. The platform where neither party is always going to be there at the same time. You can cover twelve hours of discord discussion with 3 messages.
I am going to take a wild guess that it wasn't twelve hours of constant discussion in which Vekter had a gun pointed at Sinful the entire time, demanding immediate responses. If the ticket dragged on for twelve hours, eleven of those were probably spent waiting for the other person to respond.
Just a standard Discord conversation flow, really.Spoiler:
I don't remember being the one that said that part of the stunbaton I just replied that "it's ok if sec on red uniform has baton" with "it's a chemist on uniform with syringe gun" and you've left me confused now so I'm not responding to any of that lmao
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
I had to fight the urge to start a count with an internal jihad on my mind palace.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
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