Bottom post of the previous page:
The title isn't perfectly accurate, I just thought the quote was funny in this context.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35134
Bottom post of the previous page:
The title isn't perfectly accurate, I just thought the quote was funny in this context.You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:35 pm edit: ok you are technically correct about the singular law thing so i guess they should still be banned
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
No im the consequences of silicon policy being a massive wall of text
My first point isn't about orders at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that. This is what silipol says
Any reasonable interpretation of you laws is allowed. But this interpretation is obviously unreasonable. If an emagged borg lied about their laws, and ran away to kill people before the emagger could give any orders, would you say that was a rulebreak? Because that's the exact same interpretation that Hoolny used.Silicon Policy wrote: If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
You must choose and stick to an interpretation of the ambiguous law as soon as you have cause to.
You may exploit any loopholes in your laws.
You see the problem was you didn't read the secret silicon rules that say:Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:47 pmNo im the consequences of silicon policy being a massive wall of text
I read all of it so I was sure all of my actions were according to the rules AND EVEN then after reading all I did a mistake that costed me a role ban over a discord argument
Main difference emmaged borg dont have law 4GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:49 pmMy first point isn't about orders at all, I'm not sure where you're getting that. This is what silipol saysAny reasonable interpretation of you laws is allowed. But this interpretation is obviously unreasonable. If an emagged borg lied about their laws, and ran away to kill people before the emagger could give any orders, would you say that was a rulebreak? Because that's the exact same interpretation that Hoolny used.Silicon Policy wrote: If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
You must choose and stick to an interpretation of the ambiguous law as soon as you have cause to.
You may exploit any loopholes in your laws.
Yes but in contrast with emmaged borgs I was a nuclear operative with rule 4 and previous set in mind and directives and bigger missions to follow much like a traitor put into a borg shell which I have a lot of experienced being and bending the current rules in order to still mess with the station as a borg with lawsTheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:01 pm Didnt your laws specify that one specific person was the only syndicate agent
I just learned yesterday that silicon policy has changed and some of the knowledge I have figured out is now corrupt
Yes they do have law 4:
Irrelevant, as I have already explained.
Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?
I was defined via laws as the only syndicate agent in existence, how can say this and then imply that your loyalties lay anywhere else?
Because you as a syndicate agent and I as a syndicate agent we still have the same mission and allegiance to the syndicate.GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:07 pmYes they do have law 4:
Its the exact same lawset except emagged borgs have the law 0 tacked on. In this case, the freeform law I added served the exact same role as the law 0 would have had I emagged you.Irrelevant, as I have already explained.Alright. Given that I have just demonstrated that your laws were functionally equivalent to the laws you would have had if I had emagged you, are you willing to admit fault?I was defined via laws as the only syndicate agent in existence, how can say this and then imply that your loyalties lay anywhere else?
Oh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?
And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuseGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:10 pmOh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Im a nuclear operative thats our general porpuse on the antag datum is not not? I cant remember the staright up directive but im sure thats our entire porpuseGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:10 pmOh? Can you point to the law you had that said your goal was to blow up the station?And can I get a response to this? A simple yes or no will suffice.
Per the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.
Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.
I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:14 pm If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?
Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes
Well under my understanding emmaged borgs arent allowed to do antags things without their masters telling them.GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:19 pmPer the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:14 pm If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?
Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes
How did laws apply in this situation?GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:19 pmPer the headmin ruling, antag datum only matters in situations where your laws do not apply. This was not one of those situations.Sure, but you'd have to justify why those differences reasonably to such a wildly different and unusual interpretation of your laws.I was asking about the leaving thing specifically, since you said it would not be acceptable to an emagged borg to leave like you did.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:14 pm If you want me to take fault I would need to be more specific?
Do I take fault for not turning the shocked doors off?
Yes
Do I take fault for leaving?
No
Do I take fault for you dying long after I was already dead?
No
Do I take fault for stating one law instead of more than Two since you did saw state laws?
Yes
silicon policy is way too complicated and vague it's just like real life law
we are reaching into an agreementdragomagol wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:33 pm I just want to put you two into a "This is our Get Along Shirt" shirt. If you haven't sorted out your differences in 3 got damn pages of peanut and several paragraphs in the appeal, maybe you just need to agree to disagree and wait for the official ruling
Good, I'm glad we've established that. We have also established that your laws were functionally identical to emag laws. And we have established that antag datum doesn't matter here because your laws applied.
You were supposed to wait because your laws had changed in a major way. Everyone who was formerly considered a syndicate agent no longer was, and someone who previously wasn't a syndicate agent now was considered one.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:22 pm And before you had given me that law I was already doing other business I don't see why I should wait for you to give me orders all you did was revive me and give me a freeform law I ow you nothing unless you where in immediate danger or gave me an order both things you where not in or did in time
Well, your laws commanded you to obey and protect syndicate agents, and defined me as the only syndicate agent. So it should be obvious that the laws apply.
We've already established that an emagged borg would not be allowed to leave in this situation. This is because of the laws an emagged borg gains (because what else what it be?).
That's not quite comparable, because normal borgs do not have a law defining one of the roboticists as the one and only human. A better comparison would be an emagged borg, and you yourself have admitted that an emagged borg would not be allowed to do what you did.
Hoolny and I are both way too stubborn.
It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:42 pmGood, I'm glad we've established that. We have also established that your laws were functionally identical to emag laws. And we have established that antag datum doesn't matter here because your laws applied.
So, why wouldn't you act like an emagged borg in this case?You were supposed to wait because your laws had changed in a major way. Everyone who was formerly considered a syndicate agent no longer was, and someone who previously wasn't a syndicate agent now was considered one.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:22 pm And before you had given me that law I was already doing other business I don't see why I should wait for you to give me orders all you did was revive me and give me a freeform law I ow you nothing unless you where in immediate danger or gave me an order both things you where not in or did in time
Like, if someone uploads a one human law to an asimov AI, do you think the AI should just ignore the law change and continue on as if nothing had changed?Well, your laws commanded you to obey and protect syndicate agents, and defined me as the only syndicate agent. So it should be obvious that the laws apply.We've already established that an emagged borg would not be allowed to leave in this situation. This is because of the laws an emagged borg gains (because what else what it be?).That's not quite comparable, because normal borgs do not have a law defining one of the roboticists as the one and only human. A better comparison would be an emagged borg, and you yourself have admitted that an emagged borg would not be allowed to do what you did.Hoolny and I are both way too stubborn.
Well, you said that if you had been emagged then you wouldn't have run away:Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:57 pm It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.
Like of course I would act as my laws say for me to act
But the laws given did not tell me I was supposed to wait anywhere or wait for you to give me orders
So why would you run away in this circumstance?
Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged meGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:06 pmWell, you said that if you had been emagged then you wouldn't have run away:Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:57 pm It is not to my knowledge that I'm supposed to behave a certain way that my laws don't allude to just because they were changed.
Like of course I would act as my laws say for me to act
But the laws given did not tell me I was supposed to wait anywhere or wait for you to give me ordersSo why would you run away in this circumstance?
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
Do you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:10 pm Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me
and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets
While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
hello i DELIBERATELY reported this post ON PURPOSE @riggle please remove the post thank you
there was nothing in the laws saying he couldnt go off and kill whoever he wanted (except you)GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:51 pmDo you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:10 pm Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me
and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets
While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker
Our current conversation and the ban reason are a bit differentGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:51 pmDo you get that this was against you laws? If so, then now you understand why you got banned.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 10:10 pm Because I got killed unfairly and I seeked revenge for those who wronged me
and because been a nuclear operative I felt entitled to act as a full on antag since I spawned by nuclear operative rulesets
While If I was a NT brand borg I wouldnt feel entitled to anything since I was just a nanotrasen worker
I have explained this before. It would not be acceptable for an emagged borg to lie about its laws and immediately run off to kill people right after being emagged. Likewise, it was not acceptable for the borg player in this case to lie about their laws and run off to kill people right after being given a lawset functionally identical to emag laws.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:01 am there was nothing in the laws saying he couldnt go off and kill whoever he wanted (except you)
We'll have to wait for the admins to weigh in on the ban appeal thread then.Hoolny wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:12 am Our current conversation and the ban reason are a bit different
To begin with I got banned without even getting bwoinked or informed and the evidence was on discord but thats totally beside the point.
I don't understand why me leaving right as I was unlocked is against me laws indeed
It landed on the edge
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
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