The death of Manuel sector, the Christmas gift from the Fimoify term to the TGstation community

[TheLoLSwat]

Hello TGstation this is being discussed in the discord and I wanted to get the forums opinions on it because this actually is a pretty good idea imo and a lot of the people shown in discord thought so too




Not only will manuel be destroyed, it will be rebuilt into a great server and able to join its peers in sybil and terry




NTPW soon

Fikou edit: There is now a policy thread about it viewtopic.php?t=35198&view=unread#unread

[iwishforducks]

I WIN!!!! I FUCKING WIN. I WIN. I WIN. YOU GUYS LAUGHED AT ME. BUT EVERYONE KNEW I WAS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iwishforducks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAEDQwMtf4o

[warbluke]

This might be what Bagil needs to finally stop being in deadpop hell again.

[Kendrickorium]

manuel - no to low threat
bagil - low to medium threat
sybil/terry - medium to high threat

also give admins the ability to throw shitters on manuel into space with space magic

fixed

[Kendrickorium]

also its dumb and will create a lot more work for admins

[iwishforducks]

the very funny thing is i was going to do a "unite /tg/station!" platform last term, but i didn't have the time to get my platform together, and i was super SUPER burnt out at the time. it was going to have cool posters and shit for it. and i was going to do it for next term. but by god..... please.... please let this go through. i've grown to hate the separation that mrp has created, and the MRP policy sucked so much because the logistics of it was truly awful. "LRP"-centric headmins would be voted in and wouldn't change the needle of MRP related things. "MRP"-centric headmins would result in LRP policy stagnating. it just invited so much tribalism because "oh, im not part of this community, so i shouldn't touch anything because 'MRP'/'LRP' people will get mad at me"

[EmpressMaia]

Meh idea. Having to switch servers for a different threat is kinda wack. Also this would put a Ton of players onto 2 servers and create lots of admin hassle

[zxaber]

So are we allowing murderbone on Manuel, or prohibiting murderbone for the rest of the servers?

[RedBaronFlyer]

F tier idea. I guess I'm just jaded because this reeks of "somewhat good idea, will probably get fucking butchered by incompetence." Better the devil you know and all that.

[dirk_mcblade]

I think bagil and sybil having different threat levels is a good idea. Manuel can stay MRP.

[Bepis]

It feels like a lazy way to deal with the issues of adminning MRP and LRP servers. I think it's stupid as fuck, and I hope it doesn't happen.

[CPTANT]

So what does LRP get? Fuck all?

It's just Manuel rules being extended to other servers?

[Scriptis]

i +1ed this idea on sybil last month while talking with tbm

i am all for atom smashing these communities together let's fucking goooooooooooo

[RedBaronFlyer]

i +1ed this idea on sybil last month while talking with tbm

i am all for atom smashing these communities together let's fucking goooooooooooo

Could you explain why? Not trying to be snide I actually want to understand why this would seem appealing. Seeing from an administrative point of view would be nice as well. As it looks it seems like it would be the worst of both worlds for people who play LRP or MRP exclusively.

[Scriptis]

Could you explain why? Not trying to be snide I actually want to understand why this would seem appealing. Seeing from an administrative point of view would be nice as well. As it looks it seems like it would be the worst of both worlds for people who play LRP or MRP exclusively.

from what i've heard from manuel-mins their servers have degraded into sybil/terry with extra steps, so atom-smashing all of these servers together is a worthy experiment

[RedBaronFlyer]

Could you explain why? Not trying to be snide I actually want to understand why this would seem appealing. Seeing from an administrative point of view would be nice as well. As it looks it seems like it would be the worst of both worlds for people who play LRP or MRP exclusively.

from what i've heard from manuel-mins their servers have degraded into sybil/terry with extra steps, so atom-smashing all of these servers together is a worthy experiment

Okay, but that's kind of on the MRP admins then, no? It's up to them to actually enforce the MRP rules and standards and they apparently aren't. They aren't removing the weeds from the garden yet they're complaining that it's overgrown when they have all the tools around their belt.

[Scriptis]

Okay, but that's kind of on the MRP admins then, no? It's up to them to actually enforce the MRP rules and standards and they apparently aren't. They aren't removing the weeds from the garden yet they're complaining that it's overgrown when they have all the tools around their belt.

that's reaching. i approve this course of action as somebody who's recently been doing a lot of work on terry as well as sybil. just make all the communities one community, all the admins one admin team

like i won't lie to you everything's basically going to get the current LRP ruleset with rule 12 actually being enforced

[CPTANT]

Okay, but that's kind of on the MRP admins then, no? It's up to them to actually enforce the MRP rules and standards and they apparently aren't. They aren't removing the weeds from the garden yet they're complaining that it's overgrown when they have all the tools around their belt.

that's reaching. i approve this course of action as somebody who's recently been doing a lot of work on terry as well as sybil. just make all the communities one community, all the admins one admin team

like i won't lie to you everything's basically going to get the current LRP ruleset with rule 12 actually being enforced

Rule 12 is extremely vague and arbitrary. You can see almost everything as playing to win.

[Jacquerel]

I like to see headmins being bold enough to make big swings

[WineAllWine]

I'd want to see the roleplay rules that will be applied to LRP (that aren't already) before judging whether this is a good idea.

[conrad]

This idea feels like a very milquetoast compromise 'cos neither server's playerbase is gonna like the change and the only people hip thrusting into air at the moment are people that play on LRP that assume the MRP ruleset is gettting nuked with no change to the their favourite ruleset...even though TBM said that the floor for current expected gameplay will be raised.

You can lower threat on Manuel and Campbell without nuking the ruleset.

I also partially agree with RedBaronFlyer. Partially 'cos people don't become admins to ban people as a primary goal (at least they shouldn't). They become admins to have fun with DMing tools, have a level of authority when discussing policy they think will be good and help maintain or improve the quality of the server (which is where banning people comes in).

The Manuel playerbase has a tendency to be incredibly anal when they get so much as bwoinked for anything, and until very recently the support that burnt out admins got when they didn't wanna comb through an essaypost was "The Admin Team doesn't like to read ban appeals."

E: I should just post this entire thing (trimmed for the important bits) on the policy thread.

[Chadley]

Is this bait? One big Halloween prank?

[dendydoom]

essaypost deployed.

short answer: dendy no like. dendy think reductive. dendy think doomermins not see good part of server culture, only bad because of bad bad ticket mines.

[Timonk]

I for one play on terry not because of the ELO but because my connection to there is best out of the other servers and I would hat being forced to choose high threat or low threat just because I'm europoor

[Donglesplonge]

i like the idea but after putting a little more thought into it you're not really ever gonna make this fly with either LRP players or MRP players except some of the stragglers, they both find each other to be insufferable assholes half the time and mixing up the rules like this probably won't help ever, that and you'd be making this all "admin issue" and we all know how THAT one would turn out

MRP rules do blow supreme amounts of ass though even as an MRP strict player they're not really like their own rules half of them just exist as accessories to rule 1 (like the other rules on LRP tend to be), but then again i haven't gotten noted ever because i'm a jobbie and i'm completely fine with that, i also don't do much interaction either so that might have something to do with it

TL;DR remove all rules including the entire MRP ruleset except rule 1 having 90 precedents and also at the end say "admins regularly vibe check regardless good luck"

[EmpressMaia]

essaypost deployed.

short answer: dendy no like. dendy think reductive. dendy think doomermins not see good part of server culture, only bad because of bad bad ticket mines.

dendy rub rock and stick, fire make. ooga

[Indie-ana Jones]

This is for the best, but in doing this they should just take LRP's ruleset and run with it. Why? Because what this seems to be aiming to do is bring back what we used to have, a la old Sybil. Old Sybil was a great blend of mechanics and rp not because it had a stricter ruleset, but because of the people who played on it. Culture goes a long way in shaping how things play out.

I'm also sick of development having to consider both LRP and MRP, and the threat rated servers would ultimately make so much more sense. So yeah, I really want them to do this, but I don't want them to really bring any of the rules over from MRP.

Make us whole. Bring us home.

[saprasam]

i have a sneaking suspicion mrp players and lrp players will get along perfectly fine after a month

[Capsandi]

Holy shit this is what ive been telling you people to do for years(in my head also everyone thinks im central to the continued existence of the tg server project not to be confused with TGS server project or the /tg/station code project in my head. I am able to contain all of this because of my HUGE FUCKING BRAIN).

[Constellado]

I have had amazing RP the past few days.

Do I need to play Sybil to see what it's like to play in lrp to be able to explain why I DONT WANT THIS?

I don't want to see tiding and getting murderboned every shift. That's why the MRP ruleset is there. That is its main reason. I remember playing QM in Sybil ages ago and it was horrible.

I don't want this.

One reason MRP was absolutely causing a storm over it's RP quality recently was because there was 4 nukie rounds in a row followed by cult, revs, whatnot, causing people so say that Manuel is lrp. That's it. Ever since that was fixed the RP quality has drastically improved (note, some players have been getting bored, not me though! I make my own fun)
People have been happy, posting fun round moments and stuff in discord. Can we atleast give us some time to see how good the RP is compared to Sybil with dynamic changed before nuking the ruleset to the ground?You could say that it's just dynamic that controls RP but you need to pay attention to the player base and the ruleset.

How can you make the MRP people happy with allowing everybody to murderbone suddenly? Or the LRP players happy with making syndies and heretics unable to murderbone? That's the BIGGEST difference between the two servers that does not have a middleground.

The main reason I switched to Manuel back in the day was to stop dealing with people breaking into engi every shift to get stuff when I am right there. When it happens every shift, it sucks. People in Manuel actually ask for things!!!

[Indie-ana Jones]

*snicker snack*

You should play a few rounds of Sybil. Murderboning, just from the progtot changes alone really isn't much of a thing anymore, and when it does happen its usually later into the shift.

[NoxVS]

*snicker snack*

You should play a few rounds of Sybil. Murderboning, just from the progtot changes alone really isn't much of a thing anymore, and when it does happen its usually later into the shift.

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

[Indie-ana Jones]

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

[saprasam]

*snicker snack*

You should play a few rounds of Sybil. Murderboning, just from the progtot changes alone really isn't much of a thing anymore, and when it does happen its usually later into the shift.

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

greytiding as an artform has been dead for years & powergaming isn't as rampant as youd think

[NoxVS]

Oh, I thought those were still issues LRP had

Anyways if they aren't problems anymore we could probably easily extend those rules from MRP to LRP without changing much, that seems like a great step towards merging the two

[Constellado]

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

Having a good sec team to stop a player from tiding ain't going to work.
They will do it again next round because it was fun. It ain't fun for players like me. With a more LRP ruleset I can't stop them with an ahelp either, I think??

[Boot]

I'm always interested in taking manual out back and shooting it but I'm afraid about what "actually holding LRP to rule 12" would look like. Bwoinking roundstart secoffs for instantly making lethal ammo? Sure. Talking to the guys who make super speed juice all the time? Why not. Banning cause they made cable cuffs shift start? Seems abit crazy. I am also wary about abunch of manualmins coming to sybil.

[saprasam]

Anyways if they aren't problems anymore we could probably easily extend those rules from MRP to LRP without changing much, that seems like a great step towards merging the two

:-[

[Turbonerd]

Who the fuck cares about what the players think? Their opinion has never been helpful or useful ever. Just do it and see how it goes. Fuck them.

[conrad]

Who the fuck cares about what the players think? Their opinion has never been helpful or useful ever. Just do it and see how it goes. Fuck them.

Are you ok bro?

[Turbonerd]

Who the fuck cares about what the players think? Their opinion has never been helpful or useful ever. Just do it and see how it goes. Fuck them.

Are you ok bro?

Fuck the people.

[Capsandi]

transition will be rough but the whole 2 rulesets 1 server thing is getting kinda bothersome, its time for tg to reintegrate taiwan into the main ruleset

[Kendrickorium]

how about they stop fucking around with servers and bring back gangs

[kieth4]

Manuel refugees coming to terry to experience high threat... I will protect you (I am a hos main) don't be afraid

[mstachife]

some kinks definately need to be ironed out but as someone who's played on manuel since its iteration I really like this. sometimes I want a high threat round other times I dont.

[TheBibleMelts]

Who the fuck cares about what the players think? Their opinion has never been helpful or useful ever. Just do it and see how it goes. Fuck them.

i care, they're the people i share my gamespace with.

[dirk_mcblade]

I'm always interested in taking manual out back and shooting it but I'm afraid about what "actually holding LRP to rule 12" would look like. Bwoinking roundstart secoffs for instantly making lethal ammo? Sure. Talking to the guys who make super speed juice all the time? Why not. Banning cause they made cable cuffs shift start? Seems abit crazy. I am also wary about abunch of manualmins coming to sybil.

I've heard lethals were removed from the sec protolathe and making nitrium takes me like 40 minutes and what else am I going to do in atmospherics? Go AFK and play factorio instead?

[Boot]

I'm always interested in taking manual out back and shooting it but I'm afraid about what "actually holding LRP to rule 12" would look like. Bwoinking roundstart secoffs for instantly making lethal ammo? Sure. Talking to the guys who make super speed juice all the time? Why not. Banning cause they made cable cuffs shift start? Seems abit crazy. I am also wary about abunch of manualmins coming to sybil.

I've heard lethals were removed from the sec protolathe and making nitrium takes me like 40 minutes and what else am I going to do in atmospherics? Go AFK and play factorio instead?

Before the nerf it was pretty common to see secoffs snagging beakers and metal for improvised shells shift start. As someone who plays medical you'll see alot of the same faces wanting beakers.

[RedBaronFlyer]

The longer I think about this the more holes I see in it. You could cut a cheese wheel with it.