Assistant makes nutty call, puts the virologist in quarantine

[Bepis]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35341

I did it I did it, there's nut in the title

Spoiler:

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Local assistant beats coderbus to the punch, faces vengeful wrath for stealing timegreens thunder.



——

That said even if the note is a bit inaccurate the ban is well-earned. “Well i broke in and saw the virologist in virology at his workplace in virology equipment so I beat him the hell up and wandered off.” Is the weakest justification for violence ive seen in a while.

[Bepis]

I read this as a "think more in the future" ban, one day is nothing substantial

[Jacquerel]

I know a good way to never have this problem again

[Bepis]

We prefer the death by 1000 cuts method here, pal

[Timberpoes]

Only 999 more to go?

[8bot]

>be paranoia-laden space game
>be paranoia-laden
>get banned

[dirk_mcblade]

>be paranoia-laden space game
>be paranoia-laden
>get banned

Just don't be wrong

[iwishforducks]

cant say im a huge fan of ian’s demeanor. both to the appealer and to the other folks. i get that the second one is just straight up a peanut post but the backhanded aggression towards sinful was just completely uncalled for.

this is the first time i’ve heard of random advanced viruses having names. idk i feel like i’d make the same mistake so i guess i have a little sympathy here. i feel like the best thing that ya could’ve done here is just revive the viro and just tell em they didn’t release the virus in the ahelp- but i guess the viro ahelped pretty late?

[Timonk]

wait so the assistant wasnt even guilty of round removing them?

[TheRex9001]

I feel like you should still try to check, and not jump to just kill them. Viruses having names shouldnt just instantly mean valid the viro, just like ask medbay or check their fridge/person or use the virus name thing as a jumping off point for escalation

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

So....since it was a sentient virus, it had a level 7 biohazard announcement, right?

Also, since it was a sentient virus, it should have had 2 cure chemicals, whereas a virologist virus would have 1, right?

I dunno, seems like this guy just failed the knowledge check to me. But he definitely should have talked to the viro first.

Or was this some random new level 7 virus event I havent heard of before?

[Jacquerel]

I think level 7 biohazard alert is the message for both sapient and non-sapient diseases (this one was not sentient)
if you walk into someone's department and murder them over a hunch and drag them out of the medbay and tell other people not to revive them, without speaking a single word, it's hard to argue you were in the right when it turns out you were wrong

[wesoda25]

My understanding of level 7 diseases was the same as thonks. It seems like a genuine misunderstanding to me and I can't fault them for coming to that conclusion. personally this seems like a prime candidate for a note/warning and an aheal.

[Kendrickorium]

i recall once i decapitated someone for calling me a ling then after like a 15 minute ticket me and the admin figured out i had hallucinated it

sometimes people make mistakes in the heat of the moment and its up to the player and the admin to work together to understand exactly what had happened

also wtf ian you being a real cunt in that thread

[dendydoom]

I think level 7 biohazard alert is the message for both sapient and non-sapient diseases (this one was not sentient)
if you walk into someone's department and murder them over a hunch and drag them out of the medbay and tell other people not to revive them, without speaking a single word, it's hard to argue you were in the right when it turns out you were wrong

100%. what im looking for when im investigating this sort of shit is intent. this dude acted with such self assurance that he was right that he made no attempt to check in case he wasn't. if someone did everything the same as this player, but the only difference is that they went out and investigated and still got it wrong, i would let it go because the intent to do right was there and followed, they just got bamboozled through the course of the game. their reasoning is decent, but in a roleplaying game this ooc behaviour has to translate somehow to ic. "has anybody checked on the viro?" "i think the viro made that, i will investigate" "did you make a virus?" "if you didn't then who's responsible for the level 7" etc etc literally anything like this will lead me to believe they're doing a cool IC investigation even if they totally whiff it and get the wrong guy anyway. is this asking for a lot?

unless there is some hidden plot twist ending to this my sensors detect that this seems like a very standard dayban.

[NoxVS]

This is a game with strong themes of paranoia, imperfect information, and having to make quick decisions in the heat of the moment. Players are inevitably going to come into conflict with other players even if all parties are entirely innocent, and it's going to result in situations where from the POV of someone with perfect information and plenty of time it appears as if one player has blatantly wronged the other. It's important to be able to recognize when players reasonably arrive at a flawed (from an all-seeing all-knowing perspective) conclusion.

That isn't what happened here. You cannot refuse to look into the situation further when you have ample time and opportunity as an excuse to later say you acted with imperfect information. If you are walking up to the virologist and have them in crit and the virus is cured you literally have all the time in the world to investigate. Is the PANDEMIC sabotaged? Is there another deadly disease being made? Does the virologist have other dangerous culture bottles on their person? Has the virus already been cured with vaccines sitting in medical? What does the virologist say when ASKED? Speaking of which -

for starters when he was confronted he never tried to say it wasn't him that released it, instead, he opted for speaking like every other shitter that gets caught, and has their "fun" ruined by valid hunters. had he actually tried to explain that it was a random virus instead of acting like he got caught red-handed, it probably would have actually done him some favors.

How the fuck is he supposed to know what you are there for? You didn't confront them and ask anything. Some random assistant silently breaks in and the virologist is supposed to make the mental connection that the assistant clearly is here because of the random disease that got out earlier and has already been cured? Why is the virologist expected to see someone breaking into their department and respond with "Salutations my good fellow! May I inquire as to why you are currently approaching me? Shall we discuss this over a spot of tea?" while the assistant's sole word that entire round so far had been "H"?

[Pepper]

This is the same admin that told me reporting a crime to the captain was invalid because the captain is "basically just an assistant with a gold star", btw. No winning with this guy. Tell authorities and it's not enough, handle it yourself and you get banned.

edit: more context

A day before this ban was placed I had a separate ticket with the same admin where I complained about security wordlessly killing an AI I had made specifically to thwart the original subverted AI and it's master. He told me that it was a reasonable thing to do because "he could have just assumed that all ais were rogue." I truly fail to see what the difference is between a sec officer blasting away an AI without even bothering to check its name because some other AI was doing bad shit vs an assistant mistakenly assuming the viro was rogue because of a level 7 virus with typically antaggy symptoms. Both are making bad, basically irreversible calls off of incomplete information but one got blown off with the admin coming up with excuses for sec without even bothering to bwoink them vs this guy eating a dayban and an extremely abrasive attitude through the entire ticket. Both situations are conflict out of control of the receiving party resulting in getting effectively removed from the round.

[iansdoor]

cant say im a huge fan of ian’s demeanor. both to the appealer and to the other folks. i get that the second one is just straight up a peanut post but the backhanded aggression towards sinful was just completely uncalled for.

this is the first time i’ve heard of random advanced viruses having names. idk i feel like i’d make the same mistake so i guess i have a little sympathy here. i feel like the best thing that ya could’ve done here is just revive the viro and just tell em they didn’t release the virus in the ahelp- but i guess the viro ahelped pretty late?

I am dishearted that I did poorly, I did commit to keeping the appeal short. Sadly, thonk never could take the blame for virologist till axle and them learned taking the appeal to headmin is a bad call.
I personally don't see or think you are in the newly found Sybil group discord, that I mistaken for the Terry group. But yeah, I wasn't too please that Thonk was being played with as a proxy for some cheap anti-admin laughs by sinful, dakka, and pegius (the peanut poster). I saw 5 screenshots of what they typed in their little back discord.
As for the snarky, would you find strange that I have seen that tactic before by axle lead metagroup. I saw the axle post in the timing of what he did with Maxeoss and his appeal, (pre-perma). I do request forgiveness on this stumble, sir.

[Jacquerel]

This is the same admin that told me reporting a crime to the captain was invalid because the captain is "basically just an assistant with a gold star", btw. No winning with this guy. Tell authorities and it's not enough, handle it yourself and you get banned

they were banned because there literally wasn't a crime being commited

[Pepper]

I personally don't see or think you are in the newly found Sybil group discord, that I mistaken for the Terry group. But yeah, I wasn't too please that Thonk was being played with as a proxy for some cheap anti-admin laughs by sinful, dakka, and pegius (the peanut poster). I saw 5 screenshots of what they typed in their little back discord.
As for the snarky, would you find strange that I have seen that tactic before by axle lead metagroup. I saw the axle post in the timing of what he did with Maxeoss and his appeal, (pre-perma). I do request forgiveness on this stumble, sir.

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned.

[Maxipat]

I personally don't see or think you are in the newly found Sybil group discord, that I mistaken for the Terry group. But yeah, I wasn't too please that Thonk was being played with as a proxy for some cheap anti-admin laughs by sinful, dakka, and pegius (the peanut poster). I saw 5 screenshots of what they typed in their little back discord.
As for the snarky, would you find strange that I have seen that tactic before by axle lead metagroup. I saw the axle post in the timing of what he did with Maxeoss and his appeal, (pre-perma). I do request forgiveness on this stumble, sir.

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned.

It's "metagroup" not "metagaming group", no one accuses anyone of metagaming.

[Pepper]

This is the same admin that told me reporting a crime to the captain was invalid because the captain is "basically just an assistant with a gold star", btw. No winning with this guy. Tell authorities and it's not enough, handle it yourself and you get banned

they were banned because there literally wasn't a crime being commited

The AI that was killed in the comparing instance also didn't do anything.

[Timberpoes]

Incomplete information is a sliding scale defence. The more supporting evidence and IC investigation you have, the more IC issue it gets if you fuck up and the more severe your IC actions can be in response.

There is a bare minimum level of information to which attacking another player is within the rules even if you got the wrong target. "There's a bad virus" isn't it.

A bad virus is a good justification for arresting the virologist pending evidence gathering.

Finding evidence the viro was dealing in negative symptoms, especially the symptoms on the virus, can justify a more severe response. Finding the virus itself in the Viro's labs or possession can also justify a more severe response.

Even on LRP you have to put in the legwork to earn your valids. If you incorrectly attack or kill a player, the best way to get an IC issue if you're wrong is telling the admin all the additional stuff you did to make your assumptions and guesses more reasonable. The best way to get a note or ban is to show you took more serious actions on the least information possible.

[dragomagol]

Rough sequence of events: Disease happens, viro apparently made a vaccine, thonk breaks into virology, viro points at them and shoves them (someone just broke into their workplace and is saying absolutely nothing!), fight ensues.

for starters when he was confronted he never tried to say it wasn't him that released it, instead, he opted for speaking like every other shitter that gets caught, and has their "fun" ruined by valid hunters. had he actually tried to explain that it was a random virus instead of acting like he got caught red-handed, it probably would have actually done him some favors.

I'm not going to investigate what happened around the RR or much beyond the instigation (because if it was a mistake then that should be rectified in the note), but I think it's pretty disingenuous to say that the onus for communication fell on him when he clearly had been communicating over the radio. Coming in to someone else's department when they have no idea who you are and what you're doing there, when they themselves are doing their job, and beating them to death (or at least to crit)... they weren't acting like an antag at all, they were acting like a virologist.

► Show Spoiler

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... nd-219253/
[2023-11-22 01:32:33.370] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "make a shitton of pills of that." (Virology (68,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:32:35.860] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "distribute." (Medbay Central (70,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:32:44.311] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "The cure is space drugs." (Virology (66,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:32:56.331] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "the vaccine was given to a rando who came with a proper blood sample." (Virology (62,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:07.516] GAME-EMOTE: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) twitches violently. (Central Primary Hallway (121,114,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:08.438] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "I already gave the vaccine sample to some guy." (Virology (56,87,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:13.858] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "I hope they know what they are doing." (Virology (56,87,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:23.217] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) attacked [Paramedic Dispatch Room] with the multitool (Medbay Central (90,105,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:23.274] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "If you want more samples, call me up on radio and I'll show up with more." (Virology (56,87,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:29.042] GAME-EMOTE: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) twitches violently. (Medbay Central (90,105,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:30.715] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "Theses things are surprisingly easy to distribute in bulk,." (Virology (56,87,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:32.524] GAME-EMOTE: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) moans! (Medbay Central (88,105,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:37.702] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) has thrown Flu culture tube (Virology (56,87,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:58.546] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/synaptizine (1u, 1 purity)) from the synaptizine bottle to [dropper] (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:33:59.560] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/synaptizine (1u, 1 purity)) from the dropper to [Asdasdasdasd culture tube] (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:03.817] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) has thrown Asdasdasdasd culture tube (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:03.990] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) splashed (thrown) Blood [floor] with in Virology (60,86,2) (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:03.990] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) splashed (thrown) Blood on the floor. (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:04.957] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at the floor (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:05.360] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at the floor (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:05.536] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at the floor (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:05.711] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:05.832] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:05.957] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:06.126] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:06.277] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:06.428] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:06.926] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:07.091] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:07.290] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:07.542] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:07.728] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Virology (56,86,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:11.153] GAME-EMOTE: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) sways around dizzily. (Virology (65,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:11.155] ATTACK: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) shoved Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) (NEWHP: 100) (Virology (67,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:11.354] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) sways around dizzily. (Virology (68,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:11.356] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) shoved Caio029/(Winston Mercado) (NEWHP: 100) (Virology (66,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:12.568] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) shoved Caio029/(Winston Mercado) (NEWHP: 100) (Virology (67,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:13.677] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) shoved Caio029/(Winston Mercado) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Medbay Central (70,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:15.803] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Winston Mercado (Medbay Central (71,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:16.278] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at Kelly Harshman (Medbay Central (71,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:16.581] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at the floor (Medbay Central (71,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:16.685] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) shoved Caio029/(Winston Mercado) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 100) (Medbay Central (71,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:16.790] GAME-EMOTE: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) points at the floor (Medbay Central (71,89,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:17.599] ATTACK: Thonk/(Kelly Harshman) grabbed Caio029/(Winston Mercado) passive grab (NEWHP: 100) (Medbay Central (71,88,2))
[2023-11-22 01:34:18.760] GAME-SAY: Caio029/(Winston Mercado) "Asshole." (Medbay Central (71,89,2))

[Constellado]

I am dishearted that I did poorly, I did commit to keeping the appeal short. Sadly, thonk never could take the blame for virologist till axle and them learned taking the appeal to headmin is a bad call.
I personally don't see or think you are in the newly found Sybil group discord, that I mistaken for the Terry group. But yeah, I wasn't too please that Thonk was being played with as a proxy for some cheap anti-admin laughs by sinful, dakka, and pegius (the peanut poster). I saw 5 screenshots of what they typed in their little back discord.
As for the snarky, would you find strange that I have seen that tactic before by axle lead metagroup. I saw the axle post in the timing of what he did with Maxeoss and his appeal, (pre-perma). I do request forgiveness on this stumble, sir.

I read this and said oh dear out loud.

You said you are disheartened you did poorly but ended up doing worse conduct. That is a lot of insults to the players there. Players are allowed to be friends and talk to each other about bans. That is human nature. As long as they are not mecacomming, it should be good in my opinion.


On another note: ban is valid imho. It's only a 1 day ban, and the player will learn from this.

[Pepper]

I personally don't see or think you are in the newly found Sybil group discord, that I mistaken for the Terry group. But yeah, I wasn't too please that Thonk was being played with as a proxy for some cheap anti-admin laughs by sinful, dakka, and pegius (the peanut poster). I saw 5 screenshots of what they typed in their little back discord.
As for the snarky, would you find strange that I have seen that tactic before by axle lead metagroup. I saw the axle post in the timing of what he did with Maxeoss and his appeal, (pre-perma). I do request forgiveness on this stumble, sir.

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned.

It's "metagroup" not "metagaming group", no one accuses anyone of metagaming.

"metagroup" is shorthand for "meta gaming/comming group". Sometimes it's used in jest like metafriending but this is clearly not a joke.

[wesoda25]

Incomplete information is a sliding scale defence. The more supporting evidence and IC investigation you have, the more IC issue it gets if you fuck up and the more severe your IC actions can be in response.

There is a bare minimum level of information to which attacking another player is within the rules even if you got the wrong target. "There's a bad virus" isn't it.

A bad virus is a good justification for arresting the virologist pending evidence gathering.

Finding evidence the viro was dealing in negative symptoms, especially the symptoms on the virus, can justify a more severe response. Finding the virus itself in the Viro's labs or possession can also justify a more severe response.

Even on LRP you have to put in the legwork to earn your valids. If you incorrectly attack or kill a player, the best way to get an IC issue if you're wrong is telling the admin all the additional stuff you did to make your assumptions and guesses more reasonable. The best way to get a note or ban is to show you took more serious actions on the least information possible.

fair enough that's a solid way of putting it

[Thunder11]

Local assistant beats coderbus to the punch, faces vengeful wrath for stealing timegreens thunder.

…

Stealing timegreen's WHAT NOW?