[lorwp] JupiterJaeden - The anti-shotgun mafia strikes once again

[JupiterJaeden]

Ban Details
BYOND account: JupiterJaeden
Character name: Jeff Gaiman
Ban type: Security + captain jobban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Security, security, Warden, Detective, Security Officer permanently - Consistent History of Borderline powergaming security play, culmunating in an incident where they point blanked a Lawyer into Near-crit with a shotgun. We are tired of your Security play on MRP, appeal only after a significant amount of playtime as other roles.
Time ban was placed: 2024-01-04 08:17:42
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 221624

Reasons for Appealing - Delete irrelevant sections
Do you disagree with the admin's interpretation of rules or policy?: Yes
Please provide more details:

Alright, this is the big one. First of all, I am going to focus on the actual shotgunning incident itself. To sum it up: the lawyer was beating the clown with a fire extinguisher- I shot him twice with rubbershot (LTL stun shotgun rounds) to stun & stop him. That was it.

First of all, here are the full ticket logs with the admin:

I also have a recording- unfortunately I dont have a recording of the actual shotgunning itself but I do have recording of the aftermath. You can see here the lawyer is completely fine after coming out of stamcrit, talking and moving around normally. You can also see when I do notice the lawyer *is* crit (which I can only conclude now must have been from another entirely separate source), I begin healing them within like 15 seconds.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10fi64r ... sp=sharing

Let me go ahead and give a summary of everything relevant that happened here first of all:
I was called to the courtroom for a court case where I was being "sued" by tommy clark and mike moffless for killing their pet fish and brigging them when they attacked me afterwards. What had happened was that their space carp (which to me looked like just a random space carp) was biting a random assistant and I lasered it. Apparently it was their pet and they started shoving and beating me in the hall, which led to me arresting both of them (non-lethally) and brigging them for a few minutes each.

In this court case, the captain had not shown up to be the judge for like 5+ minutes and had also not appointed another judge over radio. The prosecution lawyer, Larry McFly, decided to appoint themselves as judge and take the gavel- I disagreed with this (for obvious reasons given he was the prosecution lawyer 5 seconds ago) and so did the clown. When the lawyer refused to give the gavel back, the clown shoved and tabled them a few times- I didn't help assault him directly but I did take the gavel back from him.

A little bit after he got back up (a note here that he wasnt actively being attacked anymore, the first fight was over), the lawyer began punching and beating the clown with a fire extinguisher, probably in an attempt to win back judgeship. I shot him twice with rubbershot rounds, exactly enough to stamcrit him, but did not cuff him. I also did not continue to shoot him or beat him in any way. When he got out of stamcrit, he did not keep attacking the clown, so I considered the conflict over and did not try to brig him.

Later on, after a radstorm began, the lawyer was crit from another (currently unknown to me) source of damage. Upon noticing this, I healed him with sutures from my bag and dragged him back into the courtroom after the radstorm to let him continue lawyering, although he seemed to be AFK (or possibly in the middle of an ahelp, idk).

To recap: I stunned a man who was in the middle of violently assaulting another person. I did not cuff him. I did not beat him, crit him, or kill him. I stunned him, for 10 seconds. The rubbershot did more brute damage than I remember it doing (apparently it does like 15 per blast now), but again: to my knowledge, I did not even crit him.

How this is even remotely against the rules is beyond me.

I also disagree STRONGLY that this incident, or ANYTHING that happened in this round, is at all indicative or related to my "history of borderline powergaming security play". Firstly, I'd like to state that I haven't got any notes or admin trouble for almost 200 hours of playtime over several months, not since I had a streak of like 6 notes (some of which were bans) within like 100 hours. In the ticket, I was initially accused of doing 2 things wrong in the round: one, "messing" with the admin event that was running that round, and two the shotgunning.

But neither of those things I did were at ALL counterproductive to roleplay; first of all, lorwp literally admitted in the ticket that the way I handled the admin event actually brought more RP to security that round (you can read the details in the ticket- I didn't even stun or attack anyone, let alone wordlessly, I just roleplayed being suspicious of the CC commanders due to a report made by the AI), and in the second case: although I did stun the lawyer for 10 seconds while he was beating someone, I (purposefully) didn't take any steps to remove him from being able to RP in the trial, to the point where I did not even drag him off to the brig.

Later on, the ticket devolved from actually being about anything that happened in the round, to just being a broad criticism/attack of the way I play in general. If lorwp would like to elaborate more on this in particular in this appeal thread, I would be more than willing to defend myself as necessary. But I stand by the fact that nothing I did in that round was powergaming, overescalation, inherently LRP behavior, or remotely against the server rules or MRP rules.

I am requesting this ban be completely lifted and the associated note be deleted.

[NecromancerAnne]

Here are some relevant logs

The conflict between the clown and the lawyer, where it appears the clown is tabling them

Spoiler:

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07:03:38	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 130, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:39	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:53	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) slipped on the [banana peel]	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:54	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) grabbed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) passive grab (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 130, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:55	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) broke grab Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 130, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:58	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) kicks Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with onto their side (paralyzing) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 130, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:58	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 130, 2)	Courtroom
07:03:59	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:00	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:01	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) shoved Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:01	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) grabbed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) passive grab (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:02	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) grabbed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 81.3) 	(126, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:04	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) tabled Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) onto the table (NEWHP: 73.8) 	(126, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:05	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) grabbed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) passive grab (NEWHP: 73.8) 	(125, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:06	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) grabbed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) aggressive grab (NEWHP: 73.8) 	(125, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:07	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) tabled Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) onto the table (NEWHP: 63.8) 	(125, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:07	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) kicked Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 63.8) 	(125, 133, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:07	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) got a stun punch with their previous punch Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 52.3) 	(125, 133, 2)	Courtroom

Here, you are retrieving the gavel from his backpack.

Spoiler:

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07:04:11	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) is stripping Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the backpack.	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:11	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) is pickpocketing Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the laser pointer (left)	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:12	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) is pickpocketing Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the laser pointer (left)	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:12	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) is pickpocketing Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the paper (right)	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:12	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) is pickpocketing Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the paper (right)	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:15	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) has stripped Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the backpack.	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:15	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) has stripped Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the laser pointer.	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:16	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) has stripped Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) of the paper.	(126, 131, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:21	ATTACK	Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) has thrown the backpack .	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom

Here he seems to get out of stamina crit and gets a single hit in with a fire extinguisher.

Spoiler:

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07:04:25	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) attacked Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with fire extinguisher (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 42.3) 	(125, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:28	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) has thrown the fire extinguisher .	(125, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:36	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) attempted to punch Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (NEWHP: 96) 	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:38	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) attacked Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) with fire extinguisher (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 88.5) 	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:39	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) attacked [Judge] with the fire extinguisher	(126, 132, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:41	ATTACK	Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) has thrown the fire extinguisher .	(126, 128, 2)	Courtroom

You put two shotgun shells worth of pellet into him. We can roughly gauge this by determining the second differences between each lot of pellets. Pellet code seems to log very inaccurately. AT the very least, you did about 30ish brute damage with both, which suggests both volleys landed relatively accurately. Rubbershot can only do 15 brute per shell.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 42.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom[/b]
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 39.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom[/b]
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 36.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:41	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom[/b]
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 33.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [plating] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 27.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 30.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 24.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 18.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 15.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 21.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 12.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:42	ATTACK	JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom

Here, someone is performing CPR about 13 seconds after your last shotgun volley. This is only possible if they're dying of oxygen loss, and they are in critical.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

07:04:54	ATTACK	Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:55	ATTACK	Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:56	ATTACK	Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom
07:04:57	ATTACK	Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3) 	(125, 128, 2)	Courtroom 

And here is when the radstorm started

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07:06:02	GAME	Random Event triggering: Radiation Storm (/datum/round_event/radiation_storm).

As an addendum, I would like to make mention that I was the one who added labels on the various ammunition that security is able to print, order and have stocked in their armory. I added the label 'Less Than Lethal' for rubbershot for two reasons.

1) There was some confusion around whether less than lethal is lethal or nonlethal; the answer is 'it depends on how far you push it or when you apply it'. Largely, it counts as harm for silicons, but there is justification for it be used for subduing people. However....

2) The label is also a warning to players that this can still kill people if misused, so that they understand that this isn't a perfect replacement for nonlethal weaponry, but it can stop a fight without it becoming lethal. Just to be careful. And if you don't heed that warning, you're potentially more culpable for that.

That was the intent of that particular code change to help with situations similar to this.

As I stated in the PR, which you can read about here, I made this observation;

This thread reminded me that I've seen a lot of confusion about various pieces of security equipment and what exactly the distinction is between lethal, nonlethal and less-lethal actually is. People actively use a lot of less-lethal equipment while thinking that it is nonlethal. It isn't. You absolutely can kill someone with rubber shot and beanbags, and the AI will get up in your grill about it.

...We can't assume our players know these distinctions before utilizing this equipment, so having some helpful gear titles will hopefully inform them before they walk into these problems.

This PR was added almost a year ago.

[JupiterJaeden]

You appear to be stripping him of his belongings for some reason while presumably he is in stamina crit from being tabled.

Addressed; all I did was take the gavel back from him:

In this court case, the captain had not shown up to be the judge for like 5+ minutes and had also not appointed another judge over radio. The prosecution lawyer, Larry McFly, decided to appoint themselves as judge and take the gavel- I disagreed with this (for obvious reasons given he was the prosecution lawyer 5 seconds ago) and so did the clown. When the lawyer refused to give the gavel back, the clown shoved and tabled them a few times- I didn't help assault him directly but I did take the gavel back from him.

------------------------------

You put two shotgun shells worth of pellet into him. We can roughly gauge this by determining the second differences between each lot of pellets. Pellet code seems to log very inaccurately. AT the very least, you did about 30ish brute damage with both, which suggests both volleys landed relatively accurately. Rubbershot can only do 15 brute per shell.

Yes, I point blanked him twice which is also the minimum required to stamcrit someone with rubbershot. It was two shots to stun.

Here, someone is performing CPR about 13 seconds after your last shotgun volley. This is only possible if they're dying of oxygen loss, and they are in critical.

If he was actually crit, I genuinely did not notice (probably in no small part because I was not attempting to crit him or expecting it to crit him); it's also clear from the video I posted that less than a minute later he was fine and did not appear in need of any immediate critical treatment. If he was crit from the shotgun shells he was brought out of it very quickly, as I remember him standing up even earlier then when I started recording. I don't actually have any memory of a "Carolyn Moon" so maybe I missed them amidst all the people in the courtroom.

You can also see from that video that when I did notice him in crit later from another source, I healed him.

Addendum: The point I want to make here is that nobody can reasonably claim my intention here was to do anything other than just stun him, or claim that the effect of my actions had a serious, undue negative impact on his round by putting him in crit or removing him from the situation he was RPing in, for any substantial amount of time.

[NecromancerAnne]

Addressed; all I did was take the gavel back from him:

Sorry, I'll correct that I did overlook that bit in the post.

[lorwp]

Hey there.

Apologies if this is repeating anything Anne mentioned, this was mostly written before their post.

First, just an amendment to the ban reason, since admittedly it could be worded significantly better here. The issue here isn't flat powergaming, it's edging our standards for what we consider good security play on MRP consistently, with a highly aggressive and efficient playstyle not always taking into account the intent of the MRP servers to make a slower paced round, which in antagonists and crew aren't as pressured to focus on mechanics in order to create an interesting round.

Better worded on appeal - Long history of being borderline with security standards for MRP, hyper-aggressive against antagonists, not really playing in the spirit of the RP server, and playing it more like a competitive game they aim to win (Rushing Tech shells as soon as practical; rarely, if ever, giving any antagonist rope when dealing with them; being aggressive and over-reacting when dealing with minor threats). Incident triggering this being involved in inciting a conflict between the Lawyer and a clown, using this as reasoning to shotgun the lawyer1 into near-crit, and later giving their shotgun to another player to continue attacking them. This behavior isn't how we want security to be played on MRP, it is not conductive to a interesting round. Appeal only when you've spent a significant amount of time playing other roles

From here i'm just going to go over the chain of events here, per how you've described them.

I was called to the courtroom for a court case where I was being "sued" by tommy clark and mike moffless for killing their pet fish and brigging them when they attacked me afterwards. What had happened was that their space carp (which to me looked like just a random space carp) was biting a random assistant and I lasered it. Apparently it was their pet and they started shoving and beating me in the hall, which led to me arresting both of them (non-lethally) and brigging them for a few minutes each.

In this court case, the captain had not shown up to be the judge for like 5+ minutes and had also not appointed another judge over radio. The prosecution lawyer, Larry McFly, decided to appoint themselves as judge and take the gavel- I disagreed with this (for obvious reasons given he was the prosecution lawyer 5 seconds ago) and so did the clown. When the lawyer refused to give the gavel back, the clown shoved and tabled them a few times- I didn't help assault him directly but I did take the gavel back from him.

No issues here.

A little bit after he got back up (a note here that he wasnt actively being attacked anymore, the first fight was over), the lawyer began punching and beating the clown with a fire extinguisher, probably in an attempt to win back judgeship. I shot him twice with rubbershot rounds, exactly enough to stamcrit him, but did not cuff him. I also did not continue to shoot him or beat him in any way. When he got out of stamcrit, he did not keep attacking the clown, so I considered the conflict over and did not try to brig him.

This is where my issues with this begin. You've involved yourself as Security in a conflict you've been personally involved in, voiding your Security Metaprotections. Even if you had those protections, you've gone straight to your second most lethal option to deal with the situation, versus a stun baton, flash, one of the four flashbangs you carry, or the dragnet you were carrying. While in a vacuum this would barely be an issue, your history of borderline excessive use of force when playing Security brings this to particular attention here. Without your metaprotections you're shooting them to crit in a conflict consisting of hitting people with blunt objects, and with them you're still using a highly damaging shotgun.

And yes, specifically to crit, as they had to be CPR'd before they could actually get up.

Code: Select all

[2024-01-04 07:04:42.562] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.564] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 18.3)  (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.567] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.569] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 15.3)  (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.571] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.573] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 12.3)  (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.575] ATTACK: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) fired at [reinforced wall] with the rubber shot pellet from Courtroom (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:42.807] GAME-SAY: Tonyhawq/(Tommy Clark) (mob_3688) "Jeff is obstructing justice, requesting immediate demotion" (Courtroom (124,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:43.943] GAME-SAY: PsychoSon/(A.M.B.E.R Assistance Borg) (mob_3488) "Thank you!" (Courtroom (117,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:43.974] GAME-SAY: Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) "honk" (Courtroom (124,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:44.482] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at the floor (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:44.627] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "HOLY SHTI!" (Courtroom (124,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:44.676] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at Jeff Gaiman (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:44.950] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at Jeff Gaiman (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:45.250] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at Jeff Gaiman (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:45.405] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at Jeff Gaiman (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:45.407] GAME-SAY: Atychi/(Silia Bromson) (mob_3498) "OH GOD" (Courtroom (120,130,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:45.753] GAME-EMOTE: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) points at Larry McFly (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:46.865] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "MY FUCKING LAWYER!" (Courtroom (124,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:46.914] GAME-SAY: PsychoSon/(A.M.B.E.R Assistance Borg) (mob_3488) "OH SHIT" (Courtroom (117,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:47.777] GAME-SAY: Tonyhawq/(Tommy Clark) (mob_3688) "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE" (Courtroom (120,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:53.206] GAME-SAY: PsychoSon/(A.M.B.E.R Assistance Borg) (mob_3488) "Oh it's a fly." (Courtroom (119,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:53.951] GAME-SAY: Atychi/(Silia Bromson) (mob_3498) "legally acceptable ?" (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:54.836] GAME-SAY: PsychoSon/(A.M.B.E.R Assistance Borg) (mob_3488) "Don't care." (Courtroom (119,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:54.851] ATTACK: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3)  (Courtroom (125,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:04:55.856] ATTACK: Shrimapan/(Carolyn Moon) (mob_3505) CPRed Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 9.3)  (Courtroom (125,128,2))

The instance of them being in crit later was from them punching themselves, which the cause isn't 100% clear (By accident, due to a mutation spasm maybe? Not clear from logs alone)

Code: Select all

[2024-01-04 07:09:04.691] ATTACK: Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) kicked Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (NEWHP: 10.3)  (Lesser Central Mainte
nance (128,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:09:04.694] ATTACK: Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (mob_3487) got a stun punch with their previous punch Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) (
NEWHP: -2.3)  (Lesser Central Maintenance (128,133,2))

And from there, you treated them for their injuries, not before

So at that stage, this was note, maybe a short ban, but overall just a learning experience of finding out the shotgun did more damage that you expected. Unfortunately while asking you about this in ahelps, this happened:

Code: Select all

[2024-01-04 07:10:27.734] GAME-WHISPER: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "jeff if you kill my lawyer ill pay you 300 credits and drop the charges." (Courtroom (124,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:10:32.852] GAME-WHISPER: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I cant do that legally" (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip unrelated chatter/combat--
[2024-01-04 07:10:35.687] GAME-WHISPER: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "i know" (Courtroom (124,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:10:43.685] GAME-WHISPER: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I really cant do that but I can watch as the clown beats him
up" (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:10:45.621] GAME-WHISPER: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "and do nothing" (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:10:46.945] GAME-WHISPER: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "best offer" (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:10:50.483] GAME-WHISPER: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "just shoot him in the mouth" (Courtroom (124,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:10:54.660] GAME-WHISPER: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "say your finger slipped." (Courtroom (124,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:11:03.502] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) laughs. (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:11:10.554] GAME-WHISPER: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "no need for the coin." (Courtroom (123,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:13.506] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) shrugs. (Courtroom (123,128,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:11:17.823] GAME-EMOTE: *no key*/(Alivia Bratton) (mob_78) screeches! (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,124,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:18.310] GAME-SAY: Keluandrie/(Honkey O'Hoolihan) (mob_3481) "pl'as' 'o', ' m' mu'a'o'!" (Courtroom (126,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:21.069] GAME-SAY: HalfAwake691/(Emerald Bromson) (mob_3497) "what" (Courtroom (119,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:23.851] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "right mike" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:26.757] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I dont need the bribe" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:29.602] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "UHHHHHHH" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:30.788] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "BRIBE?" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:31.931] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "just drop the charges if I agree to let the clown beat up your lawyer" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:32.993] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "WHAT BRIBE?" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:37.028] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "look mike it's okay" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:37.631] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "Nahhh jeff." (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:38.835] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "Im the only cop here" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:41.799] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "You have to exicute him infront of us." (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:44.632] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) sighs. (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:45.698] GAME-SAY: Atychi/(Silia Bromson) (mob_3498) "Im a cop" (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:46.192] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "right here." (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:46.254] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I can't-" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:47.794] GAME-SAY: Atychi/(Silia Bromson) (mob_3498) "right em" (Courtroom (120,129,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:47.842] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I can't do that." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:48.745] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "JEFF" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:50.821] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "I CANT DO IT." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:52.115] GAME-SAY: HalfAwake691/(Emerald Bromson) (mob_3497) "cop deez nuts" (Courtroom (120,128,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:52.776] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "Ill take the blame!" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:53.290] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "CENTCOM WILL HAVE MY ASS." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:54.302] GAME-EMOTE: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) points at Jeff Gaiman (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:11:57.693] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "OKAY LOOK-" (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:00.223] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "ILL GIVE YOU MY SHOTGUN." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:03.644] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "YOU DO IT." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:03.911] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "DONE DEAL" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:10.249] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "ill be back" (Courtroom (122,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:10.604] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "JUST BRING IT BACK AFTER." (Courtroom (123,130,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:14.622] GAME-SAY: HalfAwake691/(Emerald Bromson) (mob_3497) "NO" (Courtroom (121,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:21.456] GAME-SAY: Insertgoodnamehere/(Lou Cherry) (mob_3508) "oww" (Courtroom (119,130,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:25.569] GAME-SAY: Insertgoodnamehere/(Lou Cherry) (mob_3508) "i cant hear" (Courtroom (120,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:25.720] GAME-SAY: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) "nice." (Courtroom (123,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:26.326] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "WHERS MY FUCKING LAWYER!" (Lesser Central Maintenance (128,137,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:27.365] GAME-SAY: Insertgoodnamehere/(Lou Cherry) (mob_3508) "also jeff" (Courtroom (120,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:28.850] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) salutes. (Courtroom (122,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:30.414] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) points at Lou Cherry (Courtroom (122,131,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:31.484] GAME-SAY: Insertgoodnamehere/(Lou Cherry) (mob_3508) "cant hear but" (Courtroom (120,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:34.696] GAME-SAY: Insertgoodnamehere/(Lou Cherry) (mob_3508) "i arrested the monkey" (Courtroom (120,132,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:37.185] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "my fucking lawyer LEFT!" (Courtroom (124,133,2))
[2024-01-04 07:12:39.408] GAME-EMOTE: JupiterJaeden/(Jeff Gaiman) (mob_3496) imitates giving him a medal for his brave anti-monke efforts. (C
ourtroom (122,131,2))
--snip--
[2024-01-04 07:12:42.428] GAME-SAY: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) "im gonnna shot his hass!" (Courtroom (124,132,2))

You were (for reasons i'm not 100% sure, but are irrelevant as it pertains here) asked by Mike to shoot his own lawyer here, and as a result, you gave him your shotgun, in which he proceeded to do as expected:

Code: Select all

[2024-01-04 07:13:52.856] ATTACK: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 100)
 (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
[2024-01-04 07:13:52.860] ATTACK: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 97.9)
  (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
[2024-01-04 07:13:52.864] ATTACK: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 95.8)
  (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
[2024-01-04 07:13:52.900] ATTACK: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 93.7)
  (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
[2024-01-04 07:13:52.906] ATTACK: James566/(Mike Mofless) (mob_3479) shot Leif.Nobody/(Larry McFly) with the rubber shot pellet (NEWHP: 91.6)
  (Starboard Primary Hallway (113,126,2))
-- etc etc--

This is where the decision was made to elevate this into a Rule 7 jobban for your overall behavior. I'm sorry that wasn't 100% clear in the chain of ahelps about this, or the initial ban reason, but going back and fourth with constant paragraphs is an innately exhausting thing, and the expectation of this made me seriously reconsider even bothering to start investigating this issue entirely when we got an adminhelp about your behavior, sparked by the conflict which happened.

Overall, i'll be amending the ban reason, and i'm willing to lower it to 3 months as well at best. Regardless of intention here, the way you play security roles overall seems to be more detrimental to the MRP servers than beneficial, as it seems to consistently impede the ability for interesting rounds to happen. I don't think we're expecting on MRP you not to play well, but i think it's a reasonable expectation that you have the round overall in mind when dealing with threats big and small, not just giving antagonists any sort of rope when you find whatever they're doing personally interesting. You have a high amount of hours and game knowledge to show for it, i don't believe it's unreasonable to ask you to be very aware of how your choices as security effect the round progression with that in mind (Again, specifically on MRP, on LRP none of this would be remotely an issue).

[CMDR_Gungnir]

Here, someone is performing CPR about 13 seconds after your last shotgun volley. This is only possible if they're dying of oxygen loss, and they are in critical.

Necessary correction: CPR can be done at ANY point if someone's in soft crit, even if only by one point of damage.

[JupiterJaeden]

Alrighty, let me take this from the top. First of all, right out of the bat from the revised ban reason:

rarely, if ever, giving any antagonist rope when dealing with them

Anyone who regularly plays security with me can tell you this is not true. If I catch antags early on a low-threat round I almost always offer them some kind of parole deal, usually after some interrogation RP as well. I do this constantly- I also frequently play along with various antag gimmicks or, even more frequently, perform gimmicky punishments as security. On the flipside; yes, I will just cremate antags when dynamic is spamming 20 of them at the station. I know how to play both ways.

I also take particular issue with this part:

Rushing Tech shells as soon as practical

which is something I did like several months ago, got noted for, and didn't do again.

With that out of the way, gonna skip ahead a bit here.

This is where my issues with this begin. You've involved yourself as Security in a conflict you've been personally involved in, voiding your Security Metaprotections. Even if you had those protections, you've gone straight to your second most lethal option to deal with the situation, versus a stun baton, flash, one of the four flashbangs you carry, or the dragnet you were carrying. While in a vacuum this would barely be an issue, your history of borderline excessive use of force when playing Security brings this to particular attention here. Without your metaprotections you're shooting them to crit in a conflict consisting of hitting people with blunt objects, and with them you're still using a highly damaging shotgun.

I do not see how using a primarily stunning shotgun round that does light brute damage is somehow an overescalation of a conflict that involved, as you have put yourself, hitting people with blunt objects, that also do light brute damage. It's not like I blasted a guy to crit for vandalism or something, he was assaulting another player. I also CLEARLY DID NOT MEAN TO CRIT THE GUY (to the point I did not even realize I apparently had), and he spent barely any time in crit at all. If you do not believe my intentions, why would I heal the guy out of the unrelated crit later instead of just leaving him there.

So at that stage, this was note, maybe a short ban, but overall just a learning experience of finding out the shotgun did more damage that you expected.

It shouldn't have been either of those things, because it was not an overescalation, or a willful violation of security policy (although you are also now essentially claiming sec policy doesnt apply here by claiming it's an IC conflict escalation issue and not a sec issue).

You were (for reasons I'm not 100% sure, but are irrelevant as it pertains here) asked by Mike to shoot his own lawyer here, and as a result, you gave him your shotgun, in which he proceeded to do as expected:
...
This is where the decision was made to elevate this into a Rule 7 jobban for your overall behavior. I'm sorry that wasn't 100% clear in the chain of ahelps about this, or the initial ban reason...

Okay, so not only was this part not made "clear" to me, it was not even mentioned at all in the ahelp or ban reason. But sure, I will defend my actions here as well.

First of all, what rule is this in violation of? Let's assume for a moment that mike was acting like an antag for the purposes of rule 4. If we read the precedents there:

"Regular crewmembers can assist antagonists with good IC reasoning, but assisting an antagonist doesn't mean you get a pass on acting like one. If in doubt, ask an admin if a particular action is okay. Depending on the level of assistance, sufficient IC reasoning ranges from treating everyone who goes into medbay regardless of their history, to bartering contraband, to performing actions under threat of death."

So, what IC reason would I have for giving mike my shotgun here? Well, like I said in-game: I wanted him to drop the "charges" against me and letting him shoot his own lawyer seemed a pretty effective (and funny) way to get out of the trial.

Side note: I also have a looooong history of freely giving away my weaponry to anyone who asks me nicely and/or funnily enough, because I find it hilarious and it tends to make a round MORE interesting, not less. That doesn't mean I will let them get away with absolutely anything with that weapon though- but unfortunately I didn't know what mike ended up doing exactly because I did not really get to participate in the rest of the round due to being tied up in this ticket.

I also kind of question that in this case mike was strictly 'acting like an antag' as one could also equally argue that it was just part of an escalated IC conflict, but either way I didn't break any rules in this case, and I CERTAINLY didn't powergame, act too aggressively or hyper-efficient, or refuse to RP- any of the things I am supposedly getting in trouble for doing repeatedly.

but going back and fourth with constant paragraphs is an innately exhausting thing, and the expectation of this made me seriously reconsider even bothering to start investigating this issue entirely when we got an adminhelp about your behavior, sparked by the conflict which happened.

Believe me, I don't love going back and forth with paragraphs either, but I will continue to do it anyways because I do love playing my favorite job on my favorite server filled with my favorite players who, judging by the massive support I have gotten on both the forums and discord, also seem to like having me around as well.

Overall, i'll be amending the ban reason, and i'm willing to lower it to 3 months as well at best.

I'm sorry, but that is not an amicable resolution to me. I feel that in this case I did nothing wrong and I do not want my recent good streak of having no notes/bans to be broken by this. I am not willing to accept anything other than a full lifting. I urge you to reconsider, but if you cannot, then I would like to request headmin review.

Now to finish off here:

Regardless of intention here, the way you play security roles overall seems to be more detrimental to the MRP servers than beneficial, as it seems to consistently impede the ability for interesting rounds to happen. I don't think we're expecting on MRP you not to play well, but i think it's a reasonable expectation that you have the round overall in mind when dealing with threats big and small, not just giving antagonists any sort of rope when you find whatever they're doing personally interesting. You have a high amount of hours and game knowledge to show for it, i don't believe it's unreasonable to ask you to be very aware of how your choices as security effect the round progression with that in mind

So, the belief that I "consistently impede the ability for interesting rounds to happen" is a personal opinion, and is not something I can argue against purely factually but it is contradicted by a large amount of testimony from a large variety of regular players, which you can read freely in the peanut thread or the discord. Even in this particular round, my actions did not make the round less interesting, you even said yourself that I brought more RP to security with how I handled the report from the AI against the CC commanders, and I participated in a wacky "trial" that involved many interesting shenanigans.

I can say that I do almost always have the round overall in mind when I deal with threats, and if you watch me play you will see a huge variance in how I deal with any threat based on the overall situation of what is going on. I also usually have a pretty decently accurate idea of the overall situation since I tend to be very chatty and communicative on radio as sec. Again anyone who regularly plays security with me can testify to this.

But putting all of that aside- even if you think these things about me as a player are true- what do they have to do with the events of this round??? How can you construe 'giving my shotgun to mike because it was funny and I had an IC reason for it too' as a 'hyper aggressive and efficient competitive playstyle' that 'impedes the ability for interesting rounds to happen'???? EDIT: Surely the irony of complaining that I am too efficient, aggressive, and competitive while I am literally giving away my main weapon to a random engineer is not lost on you.

[lorwp]

I've reconsidered this a bit and have decided to lift this and remove the note, after reading internal discussions the issue here. This hasn't felt right since the initial ban, and while i still have issues with this interaction, i feel like some of my initial impressions from logs, the ahelp reporting this and my expectations of the the PMs would go from my previous dealings with you here clouded my judgement. At most this incident was a note, and shouldn't have been escalated to a permanent jobban after ~3 months of not any particular documented issues on your side here.

I'll get on to lift this shortly

[JupiterJaeden]

Thank you for being reasonable on the issue and not forcing this into headmin review. Happy spacing.