🌙 Headmin Election 19 Discussion Thread 🌙

[dragomagol]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Who will wax? Who will wane? Will Cheshify make someone cry at the debates? Find out on today's edition of the Headmin Elections!

Campaign Threads:
Rex9001
Kieth4
Timberpoes
TheBibleMelts
WalterMeldron
Kinnebian
DendyDoom
Tegun
Tattle

[conrad]

Kinneb's short and sweet answers. I like plan B's and fallbacks, even if that's just stuff we already have being brought forward as an alternative.

[kinnebian]

I like this song a lot, I want it played when I'm in the nursing home.

[kinnebian]

I like plan B's and fallbacks, even if that's just stuff we already have being brought forward as an alternative.

I do too, but when it comes to information leaks its so hard to contain that sort of stuff;
Sometimes the best options we have are to do literally everything we can to prevent it from happening in the first place.
The only things I would do at the point is obviously to ban anyone talking and sharing this information we know of, and delete what we can that becomes publicly accessible.

[kinnebian]

Oh right, almost forgot.

[dendydoom]

bwuh?

what was this thread about again?

[kinnebian]

bwuh?

what was this thread about again?

well we just finished up deciding to all vote for kinnebian collectively so we should just go do that

[Cheshify]

I don't think there's any admin dogpiling there's just little to no player engagement in the headadmin threads so the only comments you really see are from admins.

Admins need to interact with them nearly daily

[kinnebian]

i love the threads and interact with them willingly

[oranges]

I don't think there's any admin dogpiling there's just little to no player engagement in the headadmin threads so the only comments you really see are from admins.

Admins need to interact with them nearly daily

ok but this has nothing to do with waht I said??

[Lizardistaken]

certainly you can criticize the accuracy of how it's depicted in the candidate thread, and kieth was by far not the worst person involved. very far from it. but personally i feel like this is ultimately splitting hairs.

i will not infantilize kieth by pretending that he didn't know the context of the funeral, who it was for, why they were in trouble, and what it was about. he was involved, and that is important to a lot of admins because they expect a headmin who will know better than to get involved in these situations.

being involved in a situation like that would most likely have you stricken from any trainer's serious considerations for a candidate for quite a long time. and this is for the position of headmin, not an admin candidate who can barely be trusted to view people's notes without supervision.

ultimately admins get the admin vote, and kieth is a player candidate. i know he doesn't care if admins vote for him or not. but in the end, if he gets the position, he will have to work with those same admins who have criticisms of his conduct and demeanour. he will either have to answer that publicly now or, if he gets what he wants and wins the player vote, he will have to answer it privately in admin channels, because they will want answers and assurances if they're expected to fall in line and follow his instructions through a second term.

on a general basis i can agree that this could be an important topic for an admin (though seemingly not important enough for any other person to be directly bringing it up on his thread), but i would say only because of how the funeral went down rather than his participation of the "event" itself. several admins had also participated in the funeral so i think that their presence contributed to making most of the participants feel safe and that the funeral was being done in good fun. with this considered, i am pretty certain that the direction the situation ended up taking was fairly unexpected for most of the people there.

i would also say that it is in this specific case pretty noteworthy that this situation gets misrepresented. it just makes it seem like the post in question was made out of spite instead of being about someone's genuine expression of concern. there is absolutely nothing wrong with voicing out legitimate concerns of course, but when it is done in such a hostile manner it just feels too uncivil to belong in a headmin candidate thread of all things.

[kinnebian]

GOOF WITH THE STEEL CHAIR!!
GOOFSWEEP 2024 BITCHES

[Jacquerel]

Thanks goodness I thought he wasn't going to make it this year

[Archie700]

Goof:

1. No.

2. Talk to MSO.

3. Just tell us for the love of god

[Timberpoes]

VOTE GOOF 2024!

[Timberpoes]

I will, of course, be voting Goof.

[DrAmazing343]

All I can give is a hearty GOOF 2024

[Jacquerel]

who's up goofing off

[TheLoLSwat]

GOOFERS and KEITHAMANIACS must work together, we cannot allow two based candidates to split the playervote too harshly. Also hiding your platform is based

[kinnebian]

its not al anymore, its dunk

[kinnebian]

if i dont win i still want to come back to the admin team

[Jacquerel]

if i dont win i still want to come back to the admin team

like a reverse kieth...

[dendydoom]

on a general basis i can agree that this could be an important topic for an admin (though seemingly not important enough for any other person to be directly bringing it up on his thread), but i would say only because of how the funeral went down rather than his participation of the "event" itself. several admins had also participated in the funeral so i think that their presence contributed to making most of the participants feel safe and that the funeral was being done in good fun. with this considered, i am pretty certain that the direction the situation ended up taking was fairly unexpected for most of the people there.

i would also say that it is in this specific case pretty noteworthy that this situation gets misrepresented. it just makes it seem like the post in question was made out of spite instead of being about someone's genuine expression of concern. there is absolutely nothing wrong with voicing out legitimate concerns of course, but when it is done in such a hostile manner it just feels too uncivil to belong in a headmin candidate thread of all things.

thanks for the reply, it's clear that you've put a lot of thought into this.

i won't comment further on what happened during the funeral itself, because as i mentioned before i consider it resolved and out of respect to those involved including kieth more discussion on this matter would require fact checking and i feel like it would be unfair to go and look at things like logs etc. i do not want to drag that into this thread.

i would be careful about saying that it is misrepresented or spiteful. as was also brought up before: there is a lot of heavy inference over things that happened in admin channels that cannot just openly be spoken about. very few people are privileged with the full story around this, and 2 of those people are the ones discussing it: kieth and shaps. shaps is a gm who has their own concerns, and in this sense they are within their right to bring that up and try to discuss it, even if it gets a little heated. i don't perceive any insults for the sake of it or outright lies, just someone who is impassioned and has something to say about their concerns with a candidate.

if similar events had happened with other candidates, whether admins or players, i would not want to police their tone around the matter either. they have a right to speak frankly and openly (as much as can be done without leaking admin channels) and people who bear witness to that type of discussion should be careful how much they let it affect their view of someone without full knowledge of the situation. i say this both to people who are supportive of kieth AND those that are critical of him. he is not a villain or a saviour. he's just a dude. tiger. dudetiger.

hearsay and gossip cloud every election season; reality takes the backseat. a lot of people who have already served terms know this sentiment very well, because people seeing what they want to see and hearing what they want to hear despite the facts and the evidence is just part of the gig.

[TheRex9001]

rip goof, also thanks for all the questions pretty awesome!

[Jacquerel]

the goof times are over

[conrad]

We were goofballin' and then we were goofballin' noe moe

[Prussen]

Why is it such an issue that a player would want to run for a policy making position in the server's leadership. After all, aren't they the ones that are the most effected by the changes if they have nothing else going on other than playing the game? We consistently tell people that they should code their own changes, so I see no problem in someone taking matters into their own hands if they're unhappy and changing things.

hi bonchoi

[BonChoi]

Why is it such an issue that a player would want to run for a policy making position in the server's leadership. After all, aren't they the ones that are the most effected by the changes if they have nothing else going on other than playing the game? We consistently tell people that they should code their own changes, so I see no problem in someone taking matters into their own hands if they're unhappy and changing things.

hi bonchoi

hi metafriend

[Archie700]

this is goofball erasure

[TheBibleMelts]

i only hostvoted dendy because i thought goofball was going to sweep the playervote, this is a fucking disaster

[TheRex9001]

No more goofing off

[BonChoi]

Hello *smiles like the joker* [Jared Leto version]

Dropping my support for kieth4 because of this smh

[Lizardistaken]

thanks for the reply, it's clear that you've put a lot of thought into this.

i won't comment further on what happened during the funeral itself, because as i mentioned before i consider it resolved and out of respect to those involved including kieth more discussion on this matter would require fact checking and i feel like it would be unfair to go and look at things like logs etc. i do not want to drag that into this thread.

i would be careful about saying that it is misrepresented or spiteful. as was also brought up before: there is a lot of heavy inference over things that happened in admin channels that cannot just openly be spoken about. very few people are privileged with the full story around this, and 2 of those people are the ones discussing it: kieth and shaps. shaps is a gm who has their own concerns, and in this sense they are within their right to bring that up and try to discuss it, even if it gets a little heated. i don't perceive any insults for the sake of it or outright lies, just someone who is impassioned and has something to say about their concerns with a candidate.

if similar events had happened with other candidates, whether admins or players, i would not want to police their tone around the matter either. they have a right to speak frankly and openly (as much as can be done without leaking admin channels) and people who bear witness to that type of discussion should be careful how much they let it affect their view of someone without full knowledge of the situation. i say this both to people who are supportive of kieth AND those that are critical of him. he is not a villain or a saviour. he's just a dude. tiger. dudetiger.

hearsay and gossip cloud every election season; reality takes the backseat. a lot of people who have already served terms know this sentiment very well, because people seeing what they want to see and hearing what they want to hear despite the facts and the evidence is just part of the gig.

no problem, i prefer non-halfassed exchanges during discussions as well. and yeah, i agree that this isn't really the place to go evidence-collecting.

when you say that a lot of it is related to private admin channel stuff, then that is not really something i can comment much on, but to be honest it is difficult to imagine what kind of perspective-changing context i'd be missing out on when i had seen the whole incident, and when there is no new information to be found in the appeal. to add to that, it was originally a very public ordeal, at least 20+ people participated, so it just does not seem like a situation where you need deep inside knowledge to know what had happened.

i would also expect that a resolved ban appeal would, at the very least, contain enough relevant information to give people accurate insight into the situation, especially since it is being posted to clarify his remark. despite this, none of the details in neither the appeal, nor what i'd personally experienced during the funeral paint the situation in a way where shaps' words accurately reflect what had happened.

if there really is some important missing context where the message does in fact not misrepresent the situation, then the way that shaps goes about it still does not make sense, because he makes it pretty clear he is talking about the funeral incident by linking to the appeal for it, yet in the resolved appeal, kieth himself says that he was never attacking any admin (which is true, he did in fact not direct it at any admin like how shaps is trying to make it seem). plus kieth was not even an admin at the time of this happening so it is a bit strange to say that he'd be aware of whatever happened in the admin channels.

unless you are trying to say that kieth had actually told an admin to kill themselves separate to this incident (and i am not trying to put words in your mouth here, i just genuinely cannot imagine what else you could be implying when you say that only a very few people know the full situation), but if this were the case then would the contents of the appeal not have included this information that would have been incredibly relevant to the ban that he is linking? like sure, you could say certain things can't be brought up due to privacy reasons, but then i doubt he'd even use the appeal as a clarification in the first place. i don't think he is trying to "outright lie", but it is really difficult to call his choice of words anything other than misleading.

i think it's generally fine to have an aggressive approach in a discussion even if it can be a bit provocative, but it becomes really difficult to justify it when it is done in a way that doesn't reflect the truth, because that is just unfair to the other person, and is not really the way to go about it if you want to get a proper answer either.

[Constellado]

I'm voting for Rex.

Has the priorities I like. Yes.

[dendydoom]

respectful opinion

i can only respond to this briefly, simply because things are being added to my plate and i have less and less time to commit to this particular thread. discussions between headmins and gms tend to happen in a very special penthouse called leads, it's where the tg bigwigs converse (and argue bitterly) over their own class of issues. this channel is not shared with the regular admin bus, just the same as bus discussions are not shared with players. it's just how our organizational structure is.

i was not involved in the ruling made on kieth's appeal. it was a ban placed by a headmin, and my recollection of it (without verifying, could be wrong on this entirely) is that the discussions around it were confined mainly to the headmin's own private discussion channel. each term gets one of these, and only they get to decide who has access to it. there is not really a standard for a response to an appeal. some admins will write an essay, some will just give a "yeah, cool, unbanned" or however it goes.

my posts are mainly an attempt to walk a fine line between being fair to those who want to speak openly and honestly without having their tone policed, and also fair to those who are being confronted. the reason i'm being vague is half out of a desire to not speak for others, and half because i was not present during all of kieth's term when he interacted with shaps. i don't know what their relationship is like, or any historical issues that may have come up during his last term in the leads channel. this is the essence of the "inference" i spoke about before. it's not an attempt in any way to obfuscate or protect a particular person's right to speak over another. it's just stepping back and letting them talk it out, however loudly.

if you're interested in my unverified, not-at-all-based-on-facts-or-reality gut feeling, then it is possibly as i said before: lots of people were involved, but only one of them is running for headmin, and there are admins, players, gms, etc, who possibly feel that involvement in a situation like that is improper for someone who is going to lead the entire admin team. gms in particular often have strong feelings on conduct. once again, i respectfully refuse to pull logs in this context or posit on intent or anything at a sensitive time for people's appearances over what i consider a resolved issue, so i will not comment further on this point in particular. sorry if that's disappointing.

your stance on the situation is perfectly reasonable. if you truly believe shaps' complaints have no basis, then so be it! you should back your candidate. this goes for anyone else.

[TheRex9001]

I'm voting for Rex.

Has the priorities I like. Yes.

Thanks man! I appriciate every vote. Hope you have a great day!

[Lizardistaken]

i can only respond to this briefly, simply because things are being added to my plate and i have less and less time to commit to this particular thread. discussions between headmins and gms tend to happen in a very special penthouse called leads, it's where the tg bigwigs converse (and argue bitterly) over their own class of issues. this channel is not shared with the regular admin bus, just the same as bus discussions are not shared with players. it's just how our organizational structure is.

i was not involved in the ruling made on kieth's appeal. it was a ban placed by a headmin, and my recollection of it (without verifying, could be wrong on this entirely) is that the discussions around it were confined mainly to the headmin's own private discussion channel. each term gets one of these, and only they get to decide who has access to it. there is not really a standard for a response to an appeal. some admins will write an essay, some will just give a "yeah, cool, unbanned" or however it goes.

my posts are mainly an attempt to walk a fine line between being fair to those who want to speak openly and honestly without having their tone policed, and also fair to those who are being confronted. the reason i'm being vague is half out of a desire to not speak for others, and half because i was not present during all of kieth's term when he interacted with shaps. i don't know what their relationship is like, or any historical issues that may have come up during his last term in the leads channel. this is the essence of the "inference" i spoke about before. it's not an attempt in any way to obfuscate or protect a particular person's right to speak over another. it's just stepping back and letting them talk it out, however loudly.

if you're interested in my unverified, not-at-all-based-on-facts-or-reality gut feeling, then it is possibly as i said before: lots of people were involved, but only one of them is running for headmin, and there are admins, players, gms, etc, who possibly feel that involvement in a situation like that is improper for someone who is going to lead the entire admin team. gms in particular often have strong feelings on conduct. once again, i respectfully refuse to pull logs in this context or posit on intent or anything at a sensitive time for people's appearances over what i consider a resolved issue, so i will not comment further on this point in particular. sorry if that's disappointing.

your stance on the situation is perfectly reasonable. if you truly believe shaps' complaints have no basis, then so be it! you should back your candidate. this goes for anyone else.

i'm not too familiar with the headmin discussion process, but that is interesting to hear. i can also understand not wanting to make even slightly partial comments at this time. i would probably do the same if i were in your position.

[kinnebian]

yeah, id win

[TheRex9001]

Debates were fun

[kinnebian]

kieth is like 1 step away from getting a cult of personality around him

[BonChoi]

did someone say cult of personality?

[WineAllWine]

[ekaterina]

I'm debating whether to have Timberpoes or Kieth as my top pick.
What happens if someone wins both the player and the admin vote?

[kinnebian]

I'm debating whether to have Timberpoes or Kieth as my top pick.
What happens if someone wins both the player and the admin vote?

I believe they get whichever vote they had more for then the 2nd from the opposite category gets picked
this has happened before with timber i believe

[NoxVS]

I'm debating whether to have Timberpoes or Kieth as my top pick.
What happens if someone wins both the player and the admin vote?

If someone wins both votes, they are picked as the admin vote and eliminated from the player vote.

[ekaterina]

this has happened before with timber i believe

Not last election... kieth4 won the player vote, Timberpoes was the 2nd player pick and won the admin vote. If it did happen, it must've been on his first term.

If someone wins both votes, they are picked as the admin vote and eliminated from the player vote.

Oh, great! Thanks for letting me know.

I'll have Timberpoes as my first pick, then, and kieth4 as my second. It would be really cool if he won the admin vote and they got to team up again but we'll see. Between the two of them, I think I prefer Timberpoes. Him having to do TheBibleMelts' job on my FNR thread really solidified him as a candidate and did the opposite for TheBibleMelts.

[kinnebian]

I'll have Timberpoes as my first pick, then, and kieth4 as my second. It would be really cool if he won the admin vote and they got to team up again but we'll see. Between the two of them, I think I prefer Timberpoes. Him having to do TheBibleMelts' job on my FNR thread really solidified him as a candidate and did the opposite for TheBibleMelts.

Yeah, Timber/Kieth was a great headmin combo last time, so it would be great to see them in action again.
For me, I'm honestly resigned to losing this one- I'm just happy to sign back up as admin again and help improve where I can from there. Maybe next term I'll be worked up enough!

[TheRex9001]

Im glad I ran, I had a lotta fun during the debates and bantering with people.

[ekaterina]

Weren't the results meant to be out yesterday?

[TheRex9001]

Weren't the results meant to be out yesterday?

Oranges was a day late with the poll, so its gonna end one day later too

[scamoppi]

OH SHIT I FORGOT TO VOTE

[TheLoLSwat]

KIETHAMANIACS THE FIGHT IS OVER!!!!!!