Kor wrote:>only traitor nerfs I remember being in demand.../traitors weren't nerfed very much
It isnt about the actual traitor gear. People did in fact demand numerous nerfs to traitors, whether they realized it or not.
People wanted the movespeed lowered. This means guns and flashbangs are now very powerful, and the AI is comparatively faster. It makes it much easier to track whats going on in a chase as well, I've found.
Genetics, polyacid, water, guns from science, chloral, stungloves, etc were all nerfed for one reason or another, often with popular support. Hell I coded some of the nerfs myself. But without viable deparment weapons traitors now have to spend their TC on lacklustre shit like a one shot ebow. They rely on their PDA for their entire loadout instead of items to complement what they can grab from their workplace. Most of these items were nerfed for good reason though
AI wanted improvements like hotkeys, access to sec channel, invisible door bolts, all which let it be a more efficient antag hunter
People didnt want traitor sec because nobody likes getting killed after being arrested or having your fellow officer backstab you. Traitor AI seems likewise gone or very rare. Fair enough, all valid complaints. But now we have 8 or something heavily armed and armored guys plus robots plus a noclip ghost all dedicated to hunting antagonists and their more or less going to be loyal and cooperating on a private channel.
Gibbing was made much harder. Welding tanks and C4 won't do it, and this generally means you have to drag the body through maint...
...which is crawling with sec officers who now start with access to that.
I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting
I'm not saying I know the solution or that the above wasnt well intentioned or didnt bring positive change as well, but I dont think many people (not all, plenty of people bringing up great points) really consider how seemingly unrelated changes impact the game as a whole. Everything is interlinked and feeds into each other.
Giving traitors enough TC that they can all buy adrenal implants and revolvers will certainly turn the round into a shit show, but not the kind of round many people would enjoy. Wouldnt help rev/cult/changeling either.
It's a structural problem and turning traitors into murderboner machines wont fix it
What you said. That said, I'd rather have every traitor/DA round be a shitshow murderfest than the stagnate nothing-fucking-happens rounds we've been having, by far. I'd rather, as a security member, be overwhelmed with the amount of crime occuring such that keeping the station intact would be an actual achievement, and you'd always be kept busy one way or another. I miss the days where, as detective, I could take a stroll as detective around maintenance 15 minutes in and find corpses and blood strewn about all around arrivals and chapel maintenance. I miss the days where I, as HoS would actually have to delegate personnel to situations as they developed, instead of having every single officer able, willing, and unoccupied to converge on a single antagonist since nothing is happening.
At least remove roundstart maint access for officers and fucking helmet cams. There's nothing worse than having an officer scream 'help' with no location and the warden/AI immediately checking their helmet cam to dispatch officers that can immediately close in on the area with their full maintenance access. And believe me, this happens almost every time, with no viable counterplay
except by buying an EMP kit and somehow EMP + stunning before they can scream 'help', or anyone can see them. It necessitates an EMP kit, and even then there's risk of being seen, and since you also suffer the flash from the EMP, sunglasses suddenly become a requirement to kill a security member and not die from a bored sec/borg pileon in the process.
Regardless, more TCs will result in more 'explosive' rounds, and that means people will be kept engaged, some way or another, longer, which Sybil desperately needs right now. It's a bandaid-patch, not a fix, but it's definitely going to keep people (read: anyone voting 'lethal' or 'extremely lethal') active and playing for entire rounds, instead of going braindead halfway through due to boredom (security is especially endemic to this). Boosting traitor numbers will also help somewhat (they were nerfed a bit by SoS, knocking that back up can definitely help).
I'd like to see doubled TC as an experiment. I know people will end up murderboning for a period, but I'd drastically prefer that until a more permanent fix can be made. I hope others might agree with me.