[Subject217]TheBroTosser-Escalation rules are funky

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TheBroTosser
 
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:40 am

[Subject217]TheBroTosser-Escalation rules are funky

Unread postby TheBroTosser » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:59 am #424683

Byond account and character name: TheBroTosser-Frank.A.Giles
Banning admin:Subject217
Ban type (What are you banned from?):Server Ban
Ban reason and length:24 hours, because I killed a clown as non antag.
Time ban was placed (including time zone):1:30 CST
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil):Bagil
Your side of the story:A clown spray canned me and then when I was down stole my spear so I attacked him and he died.
Why you think you should be unbanned:I was talking to the admin and it seems either the wiki is out of date with the current feelings on how escalation should work or he didnt understand. The line that makes me think that I shouldnt have banned is, " If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round." He said that because he never actually attacked me that I was not allowed to kill him, I concede what I did was a dick move but not against the rules and feel I should be unbanned. Either that or please change the wiki to better reflect current policy.



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subject217
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Re: [Subject217]TheBroTosser-Escalation rules are funky

Unread postby subject217 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:39 am #424686

TheBroTosser wrote:" If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round."

The full phrasing including a part I think is relevant is as follows.
The Rules wrote:You may instigate conflict with another player within reason (you cant completley[sic] destroy their department, kill them unprovoked, or otherwise take them out of the round for long periods of time) but they are entitled to respond with violence. If you think its unfair or excessive they killed you for taking their ID, consider not stealing next round.

Specifically, "but they are entitled to respond with violence", which is what you've done in this case after being wronged by the clown (being spraycan stunned and having your spear stolen which you then disarmed and got back immediately).

I would have made it a warning but you have a history of overescalating with people so it was a ban instead. In my opinion killing a clown who did not fight back for pranking you with something completely harmless that did not end up affecting you in any way whatsoever is very much so against the intent of the escalation rules. Specifically, I do not believe being "entitled to respond with violence" means "you can murder someone for mildly inconveniencing you". As such, I am going to let this ban stand. If a headmin disagrees with my interpretation the ban will be lifted, but if that is the case then I would also suggest that this part of the escalation rules see some serious modification. I believe this has been discussed several times in the past.
Last edited by subject217 on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TheBroTosser
 
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:40 am

Re: [Subject217]TheBroTosser-Escalation rules are funky

Unread postby TheBroTosser » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:35 pm #424713

I understand thats what the full line says, but its not some clause to make me a bad guy. It specifically allows me to kill them for being an ass to me. I dont understand how you can say that because in the past i had an issue with escalation that you will ban me for following escalation policy. Im not sure how im expected to know what admins current thoughts are on a rule at any given moment. If you dont feel that a rule is written properly then rewrite it. At this point all im asking for is a note removal as I followed the rules as they were written. Was I a dick to the clown? sure, but I didnt break a rule.

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CitrusGender
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Re: [Subject217]TheBroTosser-Escalation rules are funky

Unread postby CitrusGender » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:10 pm #424753

TheBroTosser wrote:Was I a dick to the clown? sure, but I didnt break a rule.


Isn't rule 1: Don't be a dick?

Anyways, it doesn't specifically allow for you to kill them: it just states that you may retaliate with violence. I have a large problem with the way that the rule is written, but I don't believe that killing a clown who spraypaints you and steals your easy made spear all while not fighting back is the type of behavior I want to encourage on the server. Clown does shit, you can do stuff back to them. Be a bit more creative than just killing them since that takes them out of the round.

I think you make a case, but ultimately I see this as something we want to discourage since outright murder is never fun for anybody. Additionally, I don't think stealing a spear is important enough to warrant such behavior.

This appeal is denied. Any other headmin may reply.
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