[Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

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[Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:39 pm #425301

Byond account and character name: Wesoda25 - Ryan Cobb

Banning admin: Nabski

Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server

Ban reason and length:Reason: Quasi ERP. Crying about rape, then claiming it's all good because you're friends and that's what you do, calling people cumsluts, being creepy about peoples muscles. This is not appropriate for our server.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): ~6:40 (EDT) - OR 22:40:35 Server time (7/10/18)

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil

Your side of the story: So I was playing as assistant, and I think like 3-4 friends of mine were playing as sec. We were all having a good time, fucking around and shit, me going in and out of brig because of some light-medium tide I was causing. At one point I got stunned and literally 3-5 people were just gathered around me (in brig), slapping, hitting, or harm batoning me, and I just screamed something like: "OH MY GOD IM BEING RAPED WHAT IS HAPPENING" due to the pure chaos and hilarity of the scene. On several other occasions I would scream something along these lines, but I believe all the circumstances were relatively similar. Then when I was getting healed from the beat down, one of my friends came up and said something (idk how to log dive so I don't know exactly) and I just jokingly said something like "NO MIKE YOU CUMSLUT". As for the "being creepy about peoples muscles", I saw two people in a "flex off", using the me verb and adjusting their jumpsuit styles. Someone said something about them and their muscles on comms, and I replied that one person had baby muscles and the other was ripped or something (its not as if I was using the me verb to "feel them up" or some weird shit).

Why you think you should be unbanned: First off I would like to apologize to Nabski for being pretty offhand and vague in my replies to their messages to me, I literally wasn't sure if he was joking or not. Anyways, I would like to target the last part of the ban: This is not appropriate for our server. I want to know how making semi lewd and innuendous jokes with friends is not allowed on a server which openly permits smut to be copy pasted onto comms.
Also, I would like to know why in the past when I have done things like this, I have not been told off once (my notes verify this). How do I go instantly to a one month ban after no warnings whatsoever in the past?
Finally, I don't feel it is necessary to add this last part but I will do it regardless. In no way, shape, or form am I making fun of rape victims anything similar to it.



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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Ispiria » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:01 am #425343

From the rules

8. Erotic/creepy stuff is not allowed.
No form of erotic roleplay is allowed on the servers, including things that could be construed as sexual by unwilling participants

Don't know whether the participants were all "willing" here, but it's important not to overlook the bolded part of that rule.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:35 am #425351

In response to Ispiria, I feel as if this loops back to my point made about the servers openness to copy pasting sexual stories onto IC chat.

I obviously did not perform any roleplaying, and the definition of erotic is as follows: relating to or tending to arouse sexual desire or excitement.

If putting smut into comms isn't construed as sexual, I don't understand how saying the word "rape" in a non serious manner over comms is really any different.

I'm not even going to address the whole "muscle" issue because I don't think that can be seen as a creepy statement with context provided (which never is it seems).

And as for my insult to my friend, it had no sexual orientation whatsoever. Its just an outlandish insult similar to when people combine racial slurs. Its so absurd, its funny to "hear" because you know no reasonable person would ever say it in real life.

I invite anyone to log dive for this round because it really was just a childish, enjoyable, good-intention-ed adventure between friends. I admit that maybe my language did get a little out of hand, but I don't think it warrants a one month ban.

PostThis post was deleted by Rustledjimm on Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:04 pm.
Reason: Peanut Policy

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Cobby » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:54 pm #425397

Use tgstation.org/parsed-logs if you want to get what you actually said ingame
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Nabski
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:35 pm #425400

As you can see from this thread
Spoiler:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18611
, rule 8 related things are typically a permaban.

Regarding smut being read over comms: it's lewd and opens yourself up to abuse by both others in the station, and admins depending on how far they are going with it. Reading something outloud is still less creepy than "touching" someone else or oogling them.

While it might be an entertaining joke between friends, it's still visible to outsiders. Any INDIVIDUAL thing you were up to this round would likely be acceptable, but combined they built up to a ban.

As another note: rape comments are very unacceptable on this server, even ones like "Help I'm being raped". This is mostly because when a comment like that is made we need to investigate it and the creepier things in these situations (like what people were wearing, who's cuffed and stunned, stripping people) are not easy or enjoyable to try to figure out.

I'm willing to reduce this ban some amount but do not feel it was in error being applied. I'm going to give head-admins and other admins a chance to comment about these kind of situations before I say how much it is reduced.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:21 pm #425421

I was the AI that round. He yelled rape once and it looked like a group of people were kicking his ass in the brig. Hardly the crime of the century. The cum slut line wasn't something I heard but still, calling someone that is hardly ERP right?

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby oranges » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:47 pm #425490

This is a really poor ban lol, just rule 1 wesoda if you want him gone, literally nothing here was ERP, and it wasn't even that creepy this is rediculous
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby bigfatbananacyclops » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:53 am #425506

hey, i was the one that ryan called a cumslut, i had no issues about it, basically what happened is that he was brought to brig so i was just pepperspraying him as a joke and he called me a cumslut back, but i knew he was joking, i have been called a healslut before and everyone was okay with it. i dont think anyone takes the word SLUT really strong here. but ryan wasnt saying it for any creepy or erotic purposes. i've seen plenty of people joke and say rape alot and nothing has been done to them, that just makes everyone feel comfort with joking about it. Maybe people wouldnt do it if the ERP rule was a bit more specific.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:40 am #425517

Regarding smut being read over comms: it's lewd and opens yourself up to abuse by both others in the station, and admins depending on how far they are going with it. Reading something outloud is still less creepy than "touching" someone else or oogling them.

If you count disarming people and grabbing people to throw them as erotic touching, then I guess. As for "oogling" (oggling? ogling?) walking up to brig and witnessing some people doing a ridiculous stand off and then referencing it later (when the event itself wasn't creepy just funny) is NOT creepier then reading off smut about Woody or Luke Gadow.

While it might be an entertaining joke between friends, it's still visible to outsiders.

I feel as if this argument relies so much on context, something that never lines up for you! Say you and someone else agree to fight to the death, and people walk in just as you deliver the finishing blow. Due to lack of context, you are now the villain. And yet in an observers eyes, in an admins eyes, you are completely fine. Just because of people's lack of knowledge of the situation doesn't mean you will get punished OOCly for what happened. So why on earth am I to be held accountable for other people's misunderstanding?!! Already an observer confirmed this, cmspano.

Any INDIVIDUAL thing you were up to this round would likely be acceptable, but combined they built up to a ban.

It may be just me, but I feel as if this ban was done in haste. I literally had no idea if Nabski was being serious, it caught me so off guard. I gave a quick reason when s/he kind of elaborated, but then they just banned me. Also, I strongly feel as if several parts of the ban reason aren't valid. To begin with "being creepy about peoples muscles" was not creepy. If this was removed from your ban reasoning, would I still be banned? Similarly, if said individual events weren't enough for a ban, how does it instantly jump up to one month??? With no warnings received in the past??

As another note: rape comments are very unacceptable on this server, even ones like "Help I'm being raped". This is mostly because when a comment like that is made we need to investigate it and the creepier things in these situations (like what people were wearing, who's cuffed and stunned, stripping people) are not easy or enjoyable to try to figure out.

I do take full blame for this. I really never did consider the fallout of my actions and the stress it would put upon an administrator. It sounds a little sarcastic but I mean it sincerely. With all due respect, I don't understand why they didn't just respectfully ask me what was going on, instead of just randomly asking me to give them one good reason not to perma ban me.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Shadowflame909 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:12 am #425523

To state some precedent, I consider this a bit less severe then WGW. Which we allow, barely. I also agree that this was done in haste and attempting to defend banning someone over saying a few words over comms is just silly. This was not an erotic role playing act of any kind. No one used ME, no one went to dorms. No one took the word "HELP IM BEING RAPED AI" as something lewd or sexual. Just dumb and silly, maybe offensive. But not very erotic.

I mean honestly if this is what we're month banning people for. Then I wonder if I shout "FUCK YOU" in comms will the admins take it as me wanting to ERP with someone and month ban me too? There's intent nabski, and this was very misread.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:18 am #425526

Wesoda, I will admit that I did not handle your ahelp with as much attention as I could have given it. That's a significant part of why this was a longer ban, but not a permanent one. I considered doing shorter but was afraid you might just wait it out as I was hoping you would come appeal and we would be able to talk about it here. There was enough active tickets at the time that I had to ping a second administrator to help handle them.

My personal stance on anything remotely sexual is zero tolerance, and that's where this ban came from.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Shadowflame909 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:30 am #425533

Nabski wrote:My personal stance on anything remotely sexual is zero tolerance, and that's where this ban came from.


This is where the main problem with your month ban comes from, you may have a zero-tolerance policy. But this server doesn't in general. As I've mentioned woody got wood and the other sexual copypastas. You can't go halfway and ban people when your online, but have people expect to get away with it when you're offline. Seriously...

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:35 am #425536

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... /game.html
Someone elsewhere had asked about logs.


Shadow I'm going to request you stop posting in this thread unless you are an involved party.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:44 am #425540

Nabski wrote:Wesoda, I will admit that I did not handle your ahelp with as much attention as I could have given it. That's a significant part of why this was a longer ban, but not a permanent one. I considered doing shorter but was afraid you might just wait it out as I was hoping you would come appeal and we would be able to talk about it here. There was enough active tickets at the time that I had to ping a second administrator to help handle them.


Again, I acknowledge and respect the strain you were under, and regret that my screeching over comms gave you something else to deal with. In the future I just request that you tell me to find some other outlet to talk this over with you, rather than an abrupt ban.

If/when this is appealed I request an addition to the note (or something where admins will see it) about your intentions for the longer ban. Thanks.

Side Note: Please don't remove Shadows comments I think they concisely summed up a point I'd been getting at from the start.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby oranges » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:51 am #425546

[2018-07-10 22:28:46.178] SAY: 22:28:46.178] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : gil has bigger muscles (68,140,2)
[2018-07-10 22:28:50.821] SAY: 22:28:50.821] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : Siris has baby muscles (68,140,2)

Wow sure is superrrrrrrrrrr creeepy

[2018-07-10 22:27:19.960] SAY: 22:27:19.960] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : We go way back (94,173,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:20.623] SAY: 22:27:20.623] SAY: Gil Taintslip/Oogtarded : hi clown (141,124,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:21.145] SAY: 22:27:21.145] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : OW JESUS (94,174,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:21.148] SAY: 22:27:21.148] SAY: Dayton Baum/DarkSleeve : what? (111,162,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:21.466] SAY: 22:27:21.466] SAY: Ghost/Segundoblz : Breaking* (91,101,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:21.469] SAY: 22:27:21.469] SAY: Kaneshiro Hisaki/Grenzsoldat : I MUST TEACH HIM A LESSON (110,160,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:23.224] SAY: 22:27:23.224] SAY: Ghost/TerraSleet : oh shit i found the round start sprite (7,175,1)
[2018-07-10 22:27:23.458] SAY: 22:27:23.458] SAY: Ghost/Jobobman : we all just gonna fall in a tear (68,102,1)
[2018-07-10 22:27:23.582] SAY: 22:27:23.582] SAY: Dayton Baum/DarkSleeve : no (111,162,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:23.918] SAY: 22:27:23.918] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : FUCKIGN CUM SLUT (98,166,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:23.977] SAY: 22:27:23.977] SAY: Ghost/Astatineguy12 : while I was windowing it off (140,126,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:25.633] SAY: 22:27:25.633] SAY: Ulawa-Chath/SmokingMann : No (110,162,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:26.219] SAY: 22:27:26.219] SAY: Ghost/Erik489 : WAS THAT REALLY (49,27,1)
[2018-07-10 22:27:26.855] SAY: 22:27:26.855] SAY: Justice David/Insumes : i nkow (139,111,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:26.889] SAY: 22:27:26.889] SAY: Kaneshiro Hisaki/Grenzsoldat : ALLOW ME TO GIVE HIM A GOOD WHACK (110,160,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:26.909] EMOTE: 22:27:26.909] EMOTE: *no key*/(mouse) : <b>The mouse</b> shakes. (131,168,2)
[2018-07-10 22:27:27.270] SAY: 22:27:27.270] SAY: Ryan Cobb/Wesoda25 : STOP (97,165,2)

Wow he said that to his friend? lol better ban him

if your personal stance is zero tolerance
[2018-07-10 22:24:54.208] SAY: 22:24:54.208] SAY: Kaneshiro Hisaki/Grenzsoldat : IT&#39;S CONSENSUAL RAPE (79,139,2)

No ban for this guy either?


Post contains logs and is therefore AN0n3 AMENDMENT APPROVE THIS ONE YOU FUCKERS
Last edited by oranges on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 am #425548

wesoda25 wrote:
Nabski wrote:Wesoda, I will admit that I did not handle your ahelp with as much attention as I could have given it. That's a significant part of why this was a longer ban, but not a permanent one. I considered doing shorter but was afraid you might just wait it out as I was hoping you would come appeal and we would be able to talk about it here. There was enough active tickets at the time that I had to ping a second administrator to help handle them.


Again, I acknowledge and respect the strain you were under, and regret that my screeching over comms gave you something else to deal with. In the future I just request that you tell me to find some other outlet to talk this over with you, rather than an abrupt ban.

If/when this is appealed I request an addition to the note (or something where admins will see it) about your intentions for the longer ban. Thanks.

Side Note: Please don't remove Shadows comments I think they concisely summed up a point I'd been getting at from the start.


What would you like the note to say?
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:57 am #425549

Nabski wrote:What would you like the note to say?


Uhh honestly kind of what you just said. Wesoda's ban length does not reflect the actual gravity of his actions or something like that. Also if you could just add some additional context or reference to the ban appeal I don't really care but would appreciate it.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Owegno » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:58 am #425550

You may have a personal zero tolerance policy but last I checked this server doesn't. Please give me an example of precedent for this sudden shift in policy Nabski because it looks like you're making up your own rules.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:04 am #425551

Owegno wrote:You may have a personal zero tolerance policy but last I checked this server doesn't. Please give me an example of precedent for this sudden shift in policy Nabski because it looks like you're making up your own rules.


Alright, I am attempting to enforce this rule too strongly then. Given that this player has no prior history of this kind of thing what's a more accurate punishment here? From how much everyone seems to disagree with my choice here I suspect the answer is going to be "lift it and amend the note to be slightly more accurate".
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby bigfatbananacyclops » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:07 am #425552

the most critical thing about this ban is that, there wasn't even context gathered before banning.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Owegno » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:15 am #425554

Nabski wrote:Alright, I am attempting to enforce this rule too strongly then. Given that this player has no prior history of this kind of thing what's a more accurate punishment here? From how much everyone seems to disagree with my choice here I suspect the answer is going to be "lift it and amend the note to be slightly more accurate".


I would just lift it and probably just remove the note. There is nothing overtly sexual in there, and unless I've read things wrong nobody ahelped about it. I'll probably talk with the other headmins about this to create some kind of codified rule 8 guidelines, but I've always enforced it as unless someone ahelps, there is clearly unwanted creepiness going on (which you can easily pm the person to ask about it) or it is full on ERP to let it slide seeing how reading porn is fine.

The other headmins could overrule me on this if they wish, but this is my ruling.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:23 am #425555

Someone did ahelp about it actually, specifically the cum slut part. Removing the ban, if nothing else I'm going to stick with a "warned not to cry wolf about rape" note.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby wesoda25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:28 am #425556

Trust me I don't plan on saying it again.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Nabski » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:31 am #425558

Thanks ban lifted.
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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby Grenzsoldat » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:48 am #425572

oranges wrote:[2018-07-10 22:24:54.208] SAY: 22:24:54.208] SAY: Kaneshiro Hisaki/Grenzsoldat : IT&#39;S CONSENSUAL RAPE (79,139,2)

No ban for this guy either?


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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby zaracka » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:24 am #425608

I saw what happened, he was basically commenting on a scenario that played out like this


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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:10 pm #425777

That's actually pretty accurate. I was the AI watching all this silliness play out. I thought it was pretty funny.

I probably would have yelled rape too, surrounded by officers, space lizards, and I think a furry while getting my ass kicked.

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Re: [Nabski] Wesoda25 - Behaving Inappropriately?

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:12 pm #425778

We've been done here for a while, I'm resolving this.
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