Regarding felinids/catpeople

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Arianya
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Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Arianya » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:39 pm #446704

There's been some fairly heated debate on both github and the forums about this, and in light of the recent PR opened at oranges request, the headmin team has agreed that we are going to disable felinids/catpeople as a roundstart race on Sybil

We decided to do this because we're not content with the way that the poll for the codebase side has been handled, the reasons include:

Spoiler:
a) The Headmins haven't been consulted on a PR which removes/bypasses a config

b) Admins haven't been consulted on the removal of an admin tool (purrbation/mass purrbation)

c) The vote wasn't accurately worded for the intended action (wording was "Do you want felinids to remain in /tg/ as a chooseable species", not "Do you want felinids to be removed from the codebase" or equivelant)

This action isn't intended to ignore the opinions of either side. I do understand the views of people who voted "No", even if I disagree with them personally, but this was carried out in the worst possible manner in my own opinion.

Oranges stated reason for the poll/PR (that the issue remains divisive and creates headaches for maintainers) is understandable but not solved by this kind of polling on it again or trying to ram through removals.

If I ran this poll again next week, we'd almost certainly get a different result, and similarly if I ran it again the week after, and again and again, until the poll would (eventually) come back empty simply out of pure fatigue.

You cannot get to a definitive answer that will satisfy people on a divisive issue by re-polling on this stuff. If this removal goes ahead, we'd be back here in a year or less polling on reimplementing felinids, whether as a result of agitation on the repository or due to it becoming a politicized issue in headmin elections.

The reason the headmin team hadn't made a statement before now on this was due to not wanting to add fuel to the fire on what might have been a "prank", similar to ones that oranges has carried out on several occasions in the past, both on this and other topics. The statement of intent by oranges motivated us to make our view and intent known.

I understand there will be disappointment and even anger at this statement, and I apologize for the uncertainty this situation has created for players of /tg/. I wish I didn't have to write out 500 odd words on a racial choice in a 2D atmos simulator, but here we are.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby BeeSting12 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:42 pm #446706

It wouldn't create as many headaches for maintainers if he stopped entertaining removal PRs. It seems like a fair decision to me. Felinid haters have a server and people who play felinids or don't mind them have a server.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby obscolene » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:45 pm #446707

Implying this will stop their removal
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby BeeSting12 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:47 pm #446709

Yeah, this config change will probably only be around for eight more hours but whatever.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Nervere » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:57 pm #446717

We had a long period of deliberation on this. We don't want want to disrespect either side of the vote, but we also don't agree with a complete removal when the vote margin is so close.
Some would say that this is a codebase issue only, but this affects the serverside configs (which oranges has bypassed with the removal), so it does concern us.
This is our solution. It's how it was a year ago and it worked fine, I don't expect it to be any different this time around.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby obscolene » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:58 pm #446719

Nervere wrote:Some would say that this is a codebase issue only, but this affects the serverside configs (which oranges has bypassed with the removal), so it does concern us.

>making a feature toggle-able in the config magically makes it untouchable by coders
good joke
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:59 pm #446721

still not good enough imo.

also codebase is seperate so if felinids are removed we dont bypass shit because we made configs to begin with.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby obscolene » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:02 pm #446722

Qustinnus wrote:still not good enough imo.

also codebase is seperate so if felinids are removed we dont bypass shit because we made configs to begin with.

This 100%. That's like saying that the removal of a map from the codebase is "subverting the config" because you are removing the map instead of toggling it in the config. Same with gamemodes in rotation iirc.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Kraso » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:02 pm #446723

wow good job you did the EXACT same thing that happened 2 headmin terms ago
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Rustledjimm » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:02 pm #446724

Last term we unified the configs and now it's been reverted.
reeeee

Also imagine causing this much drama over a few pixels.

I think my compromise is a good one. Catpeople get removed in return for goofballs martyrdom and he never touches /tg/ again. It's a good trade.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Kraso » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:05 pm #446727

Rustledjimm wrote:Last term we unified the configs and now it's been reverted.
reeeee

Also imagine causing this much drama over a few pixels.

I think my compromise is a good one. Catpeople get removed in return for goofballs martyrdom and he never touches /tg/ again. It's a good trade.

i've got a better idea how about we gitban goofball and KEEP him gitbanned because every time he doesn't get his way he throws a PR shitfit
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:08 pm #446729

Kraso wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:Last term we unified the configs and now it's been reverted.
reeeee

Also imagine causing this much drama over a few pixels.

I think my compromise is a good one. Catpeople get removed in return for goofballs martyrdom and he never touches /tg/ again. It's a good trade.

i've got a better idea how about we gitban goofball and KEEP him gitbanned because every time he doesn't get his way he throws a PR shitfit

goof didnt make any of the PRs why are you all so miffed about goof

goof even told people to fuck off on felinid removal PRs because we created a special rule to stop removal drama.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Shezza » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:18 pm #446737

I feel like this is the most sane option.

This is how it was a year ago.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby subject217 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:24 pm #446740

obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Shezza » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:29 pm #446742

subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

PostThis post was deleted by Cw3040 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:30 pm.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Cw3040 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:31 pm #446744

Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

"Muh tewwastation"

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:32 pm #446745

Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

"We"?

I'm pretty sure you're permabanned.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Cw3040 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:34 pm #446746

iamgoofball wrote:
Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

"We"?

I'm pretty sure you're permabanned.

shezza is talking out of his ass about terrastation, the server that will flop
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Denton » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:35 pm #446748

Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

"we"
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:52 pm #446755

This is likely the best compromise we can get at this time.

Catpeople are nonetheless going to remain a major source of contention within the community so long as they are in as a round start species. If the last two years have been any indication.

I'm also concerned that this config change can be easily reverted in half a year or longer. Rendering this decision a moot point. No decision is permanent.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby iksyp » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:59 pm #446756

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby confused rock » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:05 pm #446758

SERVER WARS GO GO GO (NO NO NO)
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby subject217 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:09 pm #446761

Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

"we"

forking it and becoming a downstream is also an option yes :^)
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Nilons » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:09 pm #446762

The people complaining won't stop complaining until theyre removed no matter how many concessions are made unfortunately due to their raging autism but I'd bet the people for it would move on in a month. If you're actually advocating for all this stupid shit to cease getting rid of them is the fastest way to do it.

The argument of it being a few cosmetic pixels goes both ways, are they really worth all this trouble and arguing?

Edit: not to mention undoing previous headmins work on unifying config for the sake of a half measure
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Cw3040 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:23 pm #446766

Nilons wrote:The people complaining won't stop complaining until theyre removed no matter how many concessions are made unfortunately due to their raging autism but I'd bet the people for it would move on in a month. If you're actually advocating for all this stupid shit to cease getting rid of them is the fastest way to do it.

The argument of it being a few cosmetic pixels goes both ways, are they really worth all this trouble and arguing?

Edit: not to mention undoing previous headmins work on unifying config for the sake of a half measure

go back to citadel furfag degenerate

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby confused rock » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:44 pm #446769

Cw3040 wrote:
Nilons wrote:I'd bet the people for it would move on in a month. If you're actually advocating for all this stupid shit to cease getting rid of them is the fastest way to do it.

The argument of it being a few cosmetic pixels goes both ways, are they really worth all this trouble and arguing?

Edit: not to mention undoing previous headmins work on unifying config for the sake of a half measure

go back to citadel furfag degenerate

FUCKING REEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAD
You are as bad as anyone. I don't think you even fucking smelled what they said. If you did read it you might be slightly offended but see it is reasonable and brings up at least one new point. You have no point. The best point I can get out of this is that you actually want catgirls and you're trying to look stupid on purpose.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Cw3040 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 pm #446770

confused rock wrote:
Cw3040 wrote:
Nilons wrote:I'd bet the people for it would move on in a month. If you're actually advocating for all this stupid shit to cease getting rid of them is the fastest way to do it.

The argument of it being a few cosmetic pixels goes both ways, are they really worth all this trouble and arguing?

Edit: not to mention undoing previous headmins work on unifying config for the sake of a half measure

go back to citadel furfag degenerate

FUCKING REEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAD
You are as bad as anyone. I don't think you even fucking smelled what they said. If you did read it you might be slightly offended but see it is reasonable and brings up at least one new point. You have no point. The best point I can get out of this is that you actually want catgirls and you're trying to look stupid on purpose.

that is precisely what i'm doing

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Kraso » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:53 pm #446772

Qustinnus wrote:
Kraso wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:Last term we unified the configs and now it's been reverted.
reeeee

Also imagine causing this much drama over a few pixels.

I think my compromise is a good one. Catpeople get removed in return for goofballs martyrdom and he never touches /tg/ again. It's a good trade.

i've got a better idea how about we gitban goofball and KEEP him gitbanned because every time he doesn't get his way he throws a PR shitfit

goof didnt make any of the PRs why are you all so miffed about goof

goof even told people to fuck off on felinid removal PRs because we created a special rule to stop removal drama.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:54 pm #446774

Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

youd be a shit headmin but lets imagine you did shit well
>all the catgirls will go to your station
>most coders dislike felinids
>the ones that do are either garbage or will care more about upstream


honestly please do make terrastation it sounds like heaven. oranges wouldnt lose much leverage at any point here and if anything only get more

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:56 pm #446775

That doesn’t make much sense.

The majority of people voted to disable cats. Why are you forcing the majority to switch servers? Bagil is always med-high pop, as such I’d assume the majority of votes for disabling cats stemmed from Bagil.

If you’re gonna turn cats off on only one server, it should be bagil. This looks like catmins way of getting what they want, regardless of what the majority of the community wants.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Cw3040 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:59 pm #446776

wesoda25 wrote:That doesn’t make much sense.

The majority of people voted to disable cats. Why are you forcing the majority to switch servers? Bagil is always med-high pop, as such I’d assume the majority of votes for disabling cats stemmed from Bagil.

If you’re gonna turn cats off on only one server, it should be bagil. This looks like catmins way of getting what they want, regardless of what the majority of the community wants.

Majority by one vote, soda. No matter what server is chosen, half of the playerbase will go to sybil.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby MMMiracles » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:00 pm #446777

wesoda25 wrote:That doesn’t make much sense.

The majority of people voted to disable cats. Why are you forcing the majority to switch servers? Bagil is always med-high pop, as such I’d assume the majority of votes for disabling cats stemmed from Bagil.

If you’re gonna turn cats off on only one server, it should be bagil. This looks like catmins way of getting what they want, regardless of what the majority of the community wants.

you say majority like it wasn't literally on the line with it being almost being a 50/50 split.
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:01 pm #446778

Double post but different topic

Shezza I was in your cat discord for 5 minutes, and as degenerate as some of the shit I saw in there was, the thing that most interested me (aside from the headmin(s?) and admins in there) was a certain coder giving you the code base for a cat server.

Don’t kid yourself, you know that won’t get off the ground, ever. Especially considering there’s no motivation for it anymore.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:03 pm #446782

Cw3040 wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:That doesn’t make much sense.

The majority of people voted to disable cats. Why are you forcing the majority to switch servers? Bagil is always med-high pop, as such I’d assume the majority of votes for disabling cats stemmed from Bagil.

If you’re gonna turn cats off on only one server, it should be bagil. This looks like catmins way of getting what they want, regardless of what the majority of the community wants.

Majority by one vote, soda. No matter what server is chosen, half of the playerbase will go to sybil.

then make that the cat players

edit: also some people that voted yes are human players voting for their friends so they might not even switch.

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby oranges » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:09 pm #446784

we're still gonna remove them

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby iksyp » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:14 pm #446786

oranges wrote:we're still gonna remove them

WE'RE JUST GONNA KILL 'EM
ignore this poster he has brain damage

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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 pm #446788

oranges wrote:we're still gonna remove them

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oranges
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby oranges » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:22 pm #446789

I am sick and tired the disingenuous bullshit put out by Nervere and Arianya
The poll result is clear, the votes are clear, it is absolutely not just a github issue
at least 50% of the playerbase is fed up with this fucking feature
There is no other feature that is this divisive and still kept in the game
it is utterly spineless to ignore this result and I will not do it
I tell you waht though, I'm willing to be reasonable, So I'll give you 48 hours to make a case to MSo
if you can convince him I'll listen
otherwise get the fuck off my case

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obscolene
 
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby obscolene » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:26 pm #446790

oranges wrote:I am sick and tired the disingenuous bullshit put out by Nervere and Arianya
The poll result is clear, the votes are clear, it is absolutely not just a github issue
at least 50% of the playerbase is fed up with this fucking feature
There is no other feature that is this divisive and still kept in the game
it is utterly spineless to ignore this result and I will not do it
I tell you waht though, I'm willing to be reasonable, So I'll give you 48 hours to make a case to MSo
if you can convince him I'll listen
otherwise get the fuck off my case

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Last edited by obscolene on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

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[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
Spoiler:
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Qustinnus
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Qustinnus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:29 pm #446791

goddamnit i dont wanna wait another 48 hours :(

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obscolene
 
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby obscolene » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:30 pm #446792

Qustinnus wrote:goddamnit i dont wanna wait another 48 hours :(

same but at least we now have a definitive deadline
sc#4622 | everybodygangstauntilnig.ga (UPDATED FREQUENTLY)

Image
[03:46:59]EMOTE: The Dreamweaver/(Steve Leaf) : <b>Steve Leaf</b> starts jacking lizard dick. (129,128,2)
[03:47:33]SAY: Steve Leaf/The Dreamweaver : OH FUCK IM CHOAKING (129,128,2)
Spoiler:
Image
ImageImageImage
Image

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wesoda25
 
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby wesoda25 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:48 pm #446802

THE SHOWDOWN THAT WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE.

MAINTAINERS V HEADMINS IN THE AGNI KAI TO DECIDE THE FATE OF THE SERVER.

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Shezza
 
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm
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Re: Regarding felinids/catpeople

Postby Shezza » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 pm #446806

Qustinnus wrote:
Shezza wrote:
subject217 wrote:
obscolene wrote:Implying this will stop their removal

Implying oranges will merge it, implying the server will stay updated with it, implying that it can't simply be reverted in a testmerge, et cetera

implying we can't just repowar and render oranges a powerless cuck

youd be a shit headmin but lets imagine you did shit well
>all the catgirls will go to your station
>most coders dislike felinids
>the ones that do are either garbage or will care more about upstream


honestly please do make terrastation it sounds like heaven. oranges wouldnt lose much leverage at any point here and if anything only get more


Terrastation?

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