[imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

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CrazyClown12
 
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[imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:32 pm #459592

Byond account and character name: CrazyClown12 Gregory Whitetide
Banning admin: Imsxz
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Head Roles
Ban reason and length:
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2018-06-28, 15:58 Western Europe
Server you were playing when banned - Bagil


I suicided late into a round as HoS. I joined late and had to go, so suicided. I have read the rules which clearly state you cant suicide at or near roundstart, so I have done nothing wrong.

>Players in a head of staff, AI/Silicon role, or a team conversion role require a minimum amount of effort; generally considered to be not logging out at or near roundstart.
>Notify admins if you cannot play these roles and must leave near round start and make an attempt to inform other players IC as well for head of staff or AI roles. Abuse of a job position, particularly Rule 1 breaking abuse, is not allowed.


It was not at or near round start and I was in no way playing a critical role (low pop Bagil, fuck all was happening) so there was no requirement for me to ahelp. I have followed every rule to both the letter and spirit. Thanks for wasting my time making my write this.



imsxz
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby imsxz » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:58 am #459745

Hi. The spirit of that rule is to play out the round as your assigned command role. Just adminhelp before you need to leave, or at least throw your ID at someone else and tell them to take over. If you don't have the time to do that, then you can take some time off of command roles.

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Farquaar
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby Farquaar » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:39 am #459784

Did you just suicide in a random place without telling anyone? If you do that as HoS at any point in the round, that's a rule 1 violation in my book. At the very minimum you should tell to your subordinates and give them your ID and equipment.

Not the biggest deal on lowpop, mind, but it's still a good habit to have.

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:18 am #459838

Farquaar wrote:Did you just suicide in a random place without telling anyone? If you do that as HoS at any point in the round, that's a rule 1 violation in my book. At the very minimum you should tell to your subordinates and give them your ID and equipment.



I told the Captain. There were no subordinates.

Tlaltecuhtli
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby Tlaltecuhtli » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:31 am #459840

ur supposed to tell admins if ur leaving while having a job with responsabilities

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:51 am #459845

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:ur supposed to tell admins if ur leaving while having a job with responsabilities



The rules specify this at or near roundstart. It was a dead round, I had no real responsibilities as I had no department, then something came up IRL and I had to go.

If there is an unwritten rule that you need to ahelp it no matter how far into the shift, how about we write it down on the rules page.

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lmwevil
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby lmwevil » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am #459848

"minimum amount of effort" - GENERALLY -considered- to be not logging out at roundstart.

precedent has been set on these sort of things in the past, you did absolutely no effort joining the round just to suicide and take up a job slot.

edit: if you ahelped so a ghost could take your body, or at least ICly handed off your job that would be at least more effort than what you showed

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:27 am #459850

That's autistic

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WarbossLincoln
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:57 pm #459892

Wording of the rule should probably be changed so we don't have these threads again.

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:00 pm #459909

Why even have a rules page at all and if admins are just going to be cunts and ignore it

somerandomguy
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby somerandomguy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:16 pm #459912

CrazyClown12 wrote:Why even have a rules page at all and if admins are just going to be cunts and ignore it

If everyone smells like crap, check your shoes

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:29 pm #459915

somerandomguy wrote:If everyone smells like crap, check your shoes



That's not an answer. An admin decided that my behaviour was bad enough to justify a ban with no warning despite me making every effort to follow the rules as written. I have not broken a single rule on the rules page, so I have in effect been rule 0 banned over something that had a completely insignificant effect on the round.

somerandomguy
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby somerandomguy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:57 pm #459921

CrazyClown12 wrote:
somerandomguy wrote:If everyone smells like crap, check your shoes



That's not an answer. An admin decided that my behaviour was bad enough to justify a ban with no warning despite me making every effort to follow the rules as written. I have not broken a single rule on the rules page, so I have in effect been rule 0 banned over something that had a completely insignificant effect on the round.

>no warning
And how would they warn you?
>haven't broken rules
You left right after you joined, burning a slot 4nr
>rule 0
And? This is up to admin's discretion, and it's commonly agreed that it falls under the rule.
>every effort
I can tell you didn't; if you ahelped then this appeal wouldn't need to exist
>broke Rule 0 >broke no rules
Pick one

CrazyClown12
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby CrazyClown12 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:54 pm #459932

somerandomguy wrote:>no warning
And how would they warn you?
>haven't broken rules
You left right after you joined, burning a slot 4nr
>rule 0
And? This is up to admin's discretion, and it's commonly agreed that it falls under the rule.
>every effort
I can tell you didn't; if you ahelped then this appeal wouldn't need to exist
>broke Rule 0 >broke no rules
Pick one


I sat down intending to play, then something IRL came up pretty early on. Maybe if you had a life you'd understand, but this is clearly an alien concept to you.


And yes, I did make every effort. As it was not at or near round start, the rules page does not state that I have to ahelp leaving, so I did not. You either follow rules, or you do not. Arguing that I did not make every effort to follow the rules because I did not go above and beyond the rules is either dishonest or retarded. I do not know you, so I do not know which category you fit in.

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Nilons
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby Nilons » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:40 pm #459942

CrazyClown12 wrote:I sat down intending to play, then something IRL came up pretty early on. Maybe if you had a life you'd understand, but this is clearly an alien concept to you.

Imwevil wrote:if you ahelped so a ghost could take your body, or at least ICly handed off your job that would be at least more effort than what you showed

its established precedent that as long as you ahelp and ask for a replacement you can leave with no penalty, even closing the game before getting a response

you would understand if you could read, but this is clearly an alien concept to you

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leibniz
 
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby leibniz » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:46 pm #459944

Telling the captain is kinda enough since he is capable of promoting someone else if it's needed.

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Atlanta-Ned
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby Atlanta-Ned » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:47 pm #459945

Let's pull some logs instead of flinging shit at each other: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/bas ... 8/game.txt

Round started at 2018-12-05 14:58:03

You came into the round late here:
[2018-12-05 15:39:35.804] GAME: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) Client CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) has taken ownership of mob (/mob/living/carbon/human) (start area (8, 174, 1))

In between there are plenty of logs that make it look like you were engaged and involved in the round.
And offed yourself here:
[2018-12-05 15:52:27.489] GAME: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) (job: Head of Security) committed suicide at Brig (105, 166, 2).

And the round ended at 2018-12-05 16:18:44

CrazyClown12 wrote:
Farquaar wrote:Did you just suicide in a random place without telling anyone? If you do that as HoS at any point in the round, that's a rule 1 violation in my book. At the very minimum you should tell to your subordinates and give them your ID and equipment.

I told the Captain. There were no subordinates.


[2018-12-05 15:52:10.314] SAY: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) "uh" (Brig (105, 166, 2))
[2018-12-05 15:52:13.328] SAY: CrazyClown12/(Gregory Whitetide) "my time has come" (Brig (105, 166, 2))

I mean I guess this counts? This probably should have been a warning/note, if that.
Feedback pls (Don't bother though, because I am perfect)
### ListVarEdit by Atlanta-ned: /datum/reagents reagent_list: Water=/obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/alien
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Arianya
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Re: [imsxz] Job banned despite breaking no rules

Unread postby Arianya » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:08 pm #459949

I hate admins who leave threads unlocked after answering an appeal, there's an awful lot of peanut posting and most of it is unnecessary.

If you join as a head at roundstart and take part in the round and after a while decide to leave I don't really care. It'd be nice if you ahelp and let someone else take your place but I'm not really bothered. If you join at roundstart and suicide/go braindead shortly after roundstart it breaks the rules.

By the same token, if you join mid-round and shortly after suicide/go braindead I think you've failed to meet the minimum standard. Real life is a thing but all you have to do is drop an ahelp saying "Hey I gotta go" and then close your game and you're in the clear.

Without disconnection this probably would have been a warning/note but its part of our procedure that if someone disconnects before we can ask them about the situation that we tend to treat it as a "worst case scenario" as if you had nothing to say in your defence. Nothing you've said in this appeal really ameliorates what happened, and a 24 hour headban is pretty whatever anyway (and its expired) sooo I'm just going to lock this and advise you to be more careful in future.
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