Hygiene Removal

[Horza]

This thread is becoming really dumb really quick.

But fear not, an official poll is up in game.

Lets remove this shit wooooooooooooooo

unless the poll was made by oranges it literaly doesn't matter.

And this exemplifies the main issue at hand, which is the huge disconnect between you and the playerbase. Ever since hygiene has been active, I've heard nothing but negative feedback about it in-game, especially after it was mandatory to just strip down every article of clothing (including somewhat meaningless or nonsensical items) in order to get rid of the obtrusive sprite and malus. All the users who don't give a shit about trawling through github and don't care/don't put the effort in to get involved with the forums are seemingly invisible to you, even though OOC chat across all three servers has been nothing but negative about the entire hygiene system. At best there's been comments of "just ignore it" or "it really doesn't affect you if you don't care about it" on the positive side, and on the negative it's been nothing but complaints. Some of those complaints have been brought up in this thread, such as the huge increase in random diseases which makes medbay annoying to deal with, the obtrusive sprites, the nonsensical situations such as plasmamen becoming stinky or people who've spent their entire shift in a hardsuit in outer space without breaking their seals. That's not even touching the issue of the Creep antag being coincidentally introduced around the same time, which leads to tons of half-serious jokes about the hygiene system being introduced simply to sate coder fetishes about stalking stinky people. The entire hygiene system has been derided as something completely negative to the average user experience, a system best left to other server styles like Goon or lifeweb, and one that's simply awaiting removal after a mystical someone higher up in the hierarchy finally starts paying attention.

Ultimately the system adds nothing, has been heavily criticized in-game, heavily criticized on the forums, and the fact that a public in-game poll was established about it should speak volumes. The interaction between you and critics should also speak volumes, since it's apparent you aren't actually responding in good faith. Maybe the gesture of one guy who got around to setting up a forum account just to do the equivalent of pissing in an ocean of piss will help make this apparent, but who knows. Either way, the hygiene system needs to be removed or heavily overhauled.

[Ayy Lemoh]

unless the poll was made by oranges it literaly doesn't matter.

while you were leveling your intelligence, qustinnus was leveling his charisma
while you were leveling your science, qustinnus was leveling his speech
and now all his grinding has paid off for he has acquired speech 100 with charisma 10.

however i think he keeps picking the wrong speech checks because obviously no one with a silver tongue would pull this move for a feature that they wanted to stay while not acquiring a reputation tier equivalent to IAmGoofBall.

[oranges]

[4dplanner]

He then posted the exact same thing in this thread so it's not like that screenshot is as tragic as it sounds

[Malkraz]

Getting a negative moodlet for extinguishing yourself in a shower or lagging one tile too many coming out of medbay really puts it into perspective that coders don't play the fucking game.

[Shadowflame909]

I honestly think it's just a fetish thing.

My viewpoint of /tg/Station as I've said about everywhere is a fast-paced and streamlined version of the classic ss13 experience. No 3-hour rounds, No gate mechanics that force you to toddle off and sign 10-page contracts because the HoP told you to do so. No arbitrary times where you have to sit down at the bar 10 minutes per shift, to get your virtual human's daily ''cope'' meter to be filled up.

So, if this post doesn't get removed because my viewpoint of believing that this is literally just a fetish thing, that'd get much more appeal on an ERP centered server then it does here, doesn't get forcibly deleted. I'd like to add this.

Many people here are wondering what the goal of this PR is, the clearest goal I've found is to pause the fast-paced gameplay and ''persuade'' a couple of people to pay this virtual pay-toll, I believe. While others will just hop over it, with detriments to the community as their actions quickly spread and lower the retail value of all the houses.

Me personally, I don't agree with this direction of enforcing RP with code anyways but, I don't think code like this would accomplish your goal in the right way either.

Everyone's Stinky Now, Hurray. Who's the audience for this? Who constantly wants to be stinky?

All in all, to firmly put in place how much this reply will get ignored. I'd like to end it off by saying, a PR that literally forces people to stay in the bar for 10 minutes and gives them good moodlets for it. Will get much more praise than the casual Naked-Gameplay element that isn't really accomplishing anything.

If this server became ERP-Based though. I think it'd start to get high praise.

[Zarniwoop]

I honestly think it's just a fetish thing.

My viewpoint of /tg/Station as I've said about everywhere is a fast-paced and streamlined version of the classic ss13 experience. No 3-hour rounds, No gate mechanics that force you to toddle off and sign 10-page contracts because the HoP told you to do so. No arbitrary times where you have to sit down at the bar 10 minutes per shift, to get your virtual human's daily ''cope'' meter to be filled up.

So, if this post doesn't get removed because my viewpoint of believing that this is literally just a fetish thing, that'd get much more appeal on an ERP centered server then it does here, doesn't get forcibly deleted. I'd like to add this.

Many people here are wondering what the goal of this PR is, the clearest goal I've found is to pause the fast-paced gameplay and ''persuade'' a couple of people to pay this virtual pay-toll, I believe. While others will just hop over it, with detriments to the community as their actions quickly spread and lower the retail value of all the houses.

Me personally, I don't agree with this direction of enforcing RP with code anyways but, I don't think code like this would accomplish your goal in the right way either.

Everyone's Stinky Now, Hurray. Who's the audience for this? Who constantly wants to be stinky?

All in all, to firmly put in place how much this reply will get ignored. I'd like to end it off by saying, a PR that literally forces people to stay in the bar for 10 minutes and gives them good moodlets for it. Will get much more praise than the casual Naked-Gameplay element that isn't really accomplishing anything.

If this server became ERP-Based though. I think it'd start to get high praise.

Makes more sense than anyone genuinely thinking this feature was a good fit or would be fun.

[Qustinnus]

yes, you got me, it's clearly fetish content.

anyways I've had this entire ride with mood before, and although I realize you guys think I'm goof 2.0 or whatever there's a small difference; I have always tried to improve my features. If after a month or 2 hygiene is still shit, I won't care if it's removed. But kneejerking that it should be removed before I can address feedback won't be taken serious.

Keep thinking I'm not taking feedback serious though.

[Zarniwoop]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

[WarbossLincoln]

The fact that showers can be deconstructed but not constructed makes it worse. Now every round someone destroys all the showers publicly available.

[Qustinnus]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

i dont take you serious is what you mean. because I think youre a dumbass.

[wesoda25]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

I mean whats he supposed to do, lie down and just PR a removal? I wish he would, but the guy is committed. He went through the trouble to code it in the first place, it makes sense he will stick with it and try to see it remain part of the game.

[Devily]

I'd be fine with stench and being dirty if we reversed back to having showers with clothes on.
It adds the requirement of you having to clean yourself and thus adds to the RP but it doesn't have the penalty of spending way too much time dressing up/down for half a second worth of a shower.

You can still make a moodlet that "I am an idiot I showered with my clothes on" but also remove the stench/dirtiness, there is really nothing that warrants this level of "realism", otherwise go ahead and add shampoo, baths, towels, having to dry up and all of that crap.
Realism should make things more fun, not more tedious.

[Qustinnus]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

I mean whats he supposed to do, lie down and just PR a removal? I wish he would, but the guy is committed. He went through the trouble to code it in the first place, it makes sense he will stick with it and try to see it remain part of the game.

I atleast want it to be given time to improve, I don't think most people here realize that most of the fun things in our game have been update a ton of times, and weren't as good at first. If stink still sucks balls in 2 months people can PR a removal and I wouldn't be very against it.

[Shadowflame909]

How do we make the tedious task of cleaning ourselves fun?

You may be able to increase immersion, and ''RP'' if that's the goal to use code to shift the server direction where the rules wont.

But I don't think it'll ever become fun gamer.

[Zarniwoop]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

i dont take you serious is what you mean. because I think youre a dumbass.

I’m far from the only one saying these things, why are you trying to pretend like I am? If I were such a dumbass, you could easily address my dumbass points but you don’t do that. You resort to childish ad hominems instead, because you have no legitimate defense. You really are not as good at this as you think.

[Qustinnus]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

i dont take you serious is what you mean. because I think youre a dumbass.

I’m far from the only one saying these things, why are you trying to pretend like I am? If I were such a dumbass, you could easily address my dumbass points but you don’t do that. You resort to childish ad hominems instead, because you have no legitimate defense. You really are not as good at this as you think.

i already adressed your points, I think you're a dumbass because you replied to some post where I linked a PR and called people who dont check the github lazy, and you assumed my defense for hygiene was that I think people are lazy. your dumbassness is amplified by the fact that you still dont understand why this is dumb.

[oranges]

merged the complaint thread in the ideas forum into this one after moving

[Zarniwoop]

The only feedback you're taking seriously is the handful of posts that will allow you to keep it. You're ignoring the majority that say the core concept doesn't fit and isn't wanted. Your refusal to acknowledge that in good faith is why you're being compared to goof.

i dont take you serious is what you mean. because I think youre a dumbass.

I’m far from the only one saying these things, why are you trying to pretend like I am? If I were such a dumbass, you could easily address my dumbass points but you don’t do that. You resort to childish ad hominems instead, because you have no legitimate defense. You really are not as good at this as you think.

i already adressed your points, I think you're a dumbass because you replied to some post where I linked a PR and called people who dont check the github lazy, and you assumed my defense for hygiene was that I think people are lazy. your dumbassness is amplified by the fact that you still dont understand why this is dumb.

If you had a halfway decent stance here you wouldn’t have to rely so heavily on ad hominems. That’s all this is.

[iamgoofball]

unless the poll was made by oranges it literaly doesn't matter.

while you were leveling your intelligence, qustinnus was leveling his charisma
while you were leveling your science, qustinnus was leveling his speech
and now all his grinding has paid off for he has acquired speech 100 with charisma 10.

however i think he keeps picking the wrong speech checks because obviously no one with a silver tongue would pull this move for a feature that they wanted to stay while not acquiring a reputation tier equivalent to IAmGoofBall.

what oranges says goes for the codebase, this has always been the case

why are you pretending it hasn't been

[Ayy Lemoh]

what oranges says goes for the codebase, this has always been the case

why are you pretending it hasn't been

Goofball, this is hygiene. The odds of Oranges finding it so important that it is immune to removal and should stay permanently is really fucking low.

Also you look like a gigantic asshole if all you care about is one person's point of view. You don't have to be a dickhead just because of the holy separation of code and administration.

edit: also Oranges' polls may guarantee more likelihood of a feature staying or being removed, but I doubt Oranges and the headmins are completely fucking anti-social to each other. At the dumbest case scenario, someone will config hygiene then headmins will turn it off until the next cycle of headmins goes im bored lmao

[iamgoofball]

what oranges says goes for the codebase, this has always been the case

why are you pretending it hasn't been

Goofball, this is hygiene. The odds of Oranges finding it so important that it is immune to removal and should stay permanently is really fucking low.

Also you look like a gigantic asshole if all you care about is one person's point of view. You don't have to be a dickhead just because of the holy separation of code and administration.

edit: also Oranges' polls may guarantee more likelihood of a feature staying or being removed, but I doubt Oranges and the headmins are completely fucking anti-social to each other. At the dumbest case scenario, someone will config hygiene then headmins will turn it off until the next cycle of headmins goes im bored lmao

its oranges, and oranges is in charge of the codebase so what he says goes

[iamgoofball]

also lol if you think they'll merge a config

[Dax Dupont]

also lol if you think they'll merge a config

You say that yet there's a lot of configs merged.

[subject217]

and most of them weren't merged by oranges

after all oranges forced goofball's half baked economy pr on us without any sort of config, who says he'd do any differently for brap fetish prs

[iamgoofball]

and most of them weren't merged by oranges

after all oranges forced goofball's half baked economy pr on us without any sort of config, who says he'd do any differently for brap fetish prs

lol, get over it

[Qustinnus]

and most of them weren't merged by oranges

after all oranges forced goofball's half baked economy pr on us without any sort of config, who says he'd do any differently for brap fetish prs

because if we made PRs configurable people like you would disable everything because things like the clown car are too fun for you and you don't like change.

[bandit]

The fact that showers can be deconstructed but not constructed makes it worse. Now every round someone destroys all the showers publicly available.

I'm going to do this PR this week

[Malkraz]

Already seen admins sending out centcomm messages and deleting stink from people

[Dr_bee]

New changes are good. Now youll typically only get stupidly stank if you are knee deep in blood, encouraging people to not walk around looking like a fucking slash movie villain. I still think it should be a moodlet and not a miasma generator.

[Zarniwoop]

New changes are good. Now youll typically only get stupidly stank if you are knee deep in blood, encouraging people to not walk around looking like a fucking slash movie villain. I still think it should be a moodlet and not a miasma generator.

Changes aren't inherently good just because they exist and are new.

and most of them weren't merged by oranges

after all oranges forced goofball's half baked economy pr on us without any sort of config, who says he'd do any differently for brap fetish prs

because if we made PRs configurable people like you would disable everything because things like the clown car are too fun for you and you don't like change.

Lmao what would the creator of hygiene know about fun? More hurling insults and ad homs instead of making sincere points.

[WarbossLincoln]

What he meant was a new change to hygine that slows your stink meter unless you're in filth.

Add some rnd items for hygene. A hygene gun that can be handed out to shoot dirty people. Emag it to make people dirty and give them diseases. A machine that cleans you when you walk through it regardless of clothing. Build a few in the halls.

[DemonFiren]

why not just shoot dirty people with regular guns

[Ayy Lemoh]

what would the creator of hygiene know about fun?

As much as I think Qustinnus has gone blind when making this, he did make the clown car. It is also due to his race of Ethereals that the ethereal disco ball (WAY BETTER THAN THE OLD ADMIN ONE HOLY SHIT) was made. I'm sure he made other stuff that was neat too.

This just isn't a good feature to me no matter how much it changes though. I find it to be too much like HRP.

[Shadowflame909]

Exactly. I think it just goes against what /tg/ is all about in its current state.

Why have a convoluted feature that exists only to tailgate people for no rhyme or reason?

They do that on High-RP to make it feel like a real job, get those hours and make the shift long.

We don't really need that here considering how the standard round on this server goes.

[Horza]

We don't really need that here considering how the standard round on this server goes.

Last round I participated in featured an engineer wasting more than 500 units of booze, the detective spending 10 minutes hunting him down, it culminating in a riveting action chase where I shot and handcuffed the booze-fiend, the detective handcuffing me immediately after, then fucking killing himself for no reason, the booze-hater and I yelling at a borg to let one of us go, the borg getting into rule deadlock and dragging the detective's suicided brain away, and ultimately I was left naked in a maintenance locker while the engineer threatened to gib me. 5 minutes later and we were all on horrible flaming death escape pods where half a dozen mechs stalked the halls and the clown's compounding brain damage was the talk of the day.

There is no possible way that the hygiene system could have made this situation more fun or interesting, and indeed, just made it worse for anyone with lol random disease that medbay doesn't have time for since it's on fire and irradiated and the chemists are too busy making meth while the virologist is dead, a traitor, or nonexistent

What does the hygiene system add? OOC sniff/stench memes and assistants destroying showerheads, alongside stench sprites and a deluge of diseases. That's it.

[PKPenguin321]

havent had an issue with showering UNTIL i rolled revhead last night and never had an opportune moment to strip all the way down just to remove the stink overlay. was a tad annoying

[Farquaar]

I found that washing one's hands and face with a sink a few times can stave off the sprite in an emergency situation

[wesoda25]

havent had an issue with showering UNTIL i rolled revhead last night and never had an opportune moment to strip all the way down just to remove the stink overlay. was a tad annoying

If I can say anything positive about hygiene its that it can be kind of funny in certain situations. I was doing a lowkey murderbone but that didn’t stop me from removing all of my traitor gear in the middle of medbay to get rid of the annoying ass sprite.

[Malkraz]

Just add a new high-pressure setting to the Janitor's backpack water tank so he can blast stinky people with it to get them clean and toss them down the hallway. Emag it for boiling water or something.

[Qustinnus]

Just add a new high-pressure setting to the Janitor's backpack water tank so he can blast stinky people with it to get them clean and toss them down the hallway. Emag it for boiling water or something.

Sounds like a plan

[iksyp]

honestly hygiene is a stupid feature that i don't think belongs in the game (also coming from someone who doesn't play)
but you all should calm down it is a video game

[Mickyan]

The real sin is that the stink overlay doesn't look like Pig-Pen's dust cloud