Policy on proxies

Ask and discuss policy about game conduct and rules.

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Tamaguen
 
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Policy on proxies

Postby Tamaguen » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:01 am #476164

I've heard many stories of players being instantly permabanned for trying to join the server with a proxy, but I've heard from many others than proxies aren't punishable unless somebody is ban evading. When I check the rules, it says admins may ban users of proxy software at their discretion, but does this involve context? Should they message and talk to the user first? I've just seen too many explanations from too many different people to understand the real ruling on proxies.



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lmwevil
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby lmwevil » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:42 am #476189

why do you need a proxy to connect to us? it's extremely contextual but it CAN be seen in bad faith or in an attempt to obscure your real ip

in reality it's just a bad idea because if we ban a shitter who's using a proxy, you'll be seen as them multi-keying if you happen to use the same VPN

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Dax Dupont
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Dax Dupont » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:57 am #476193

You can use VPNs but we might block entire IP ranges or providers if needed.
Your access on the server is not guaranteed and if we have the slightest idea you might be evading you're gone until you're willing to use something that's not a VPN.

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iamgoofball
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:18 am #476245

people trying to play from China need proxies, and we have a large userbase of Russians who might get locked out normally too if the Russian Firewall actually gets made

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Arianya
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Arianya » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:48 pm #476302

iamgoofball wrote:people trying to play from China need proxies, and we have a large userbase of Russians who might get locked out normally too if the Russian Firewall actually gets made


This doesn't change the technical issues with proxies. When you use a proxy/VPN you accept you very well might and can be lumped in with other users of that proxy/VPN and that includes potentially being unable to play due to the actions of another user on that proxy/VPN.

There's no way around this other then to not use a proxy/VPN.
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iamgoofball
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:26 pm #476315

Arianya wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:people trying to play from China need proxies, and we have a large userbase of Russians who might get locked out normally too if the Russian Firewall actually gets made


This doesn't change the technical issues with proxies. When you use a proxy/VPN you accept you very well might and can be lumped in with other users of that proxy/VPN and that includes potentially being unable to play due to the actions of another user on that proxy/VPN.

There's no way around this other then to not use a proxy/VPN.

Sure, but if someone's using a proxy just ask them if they're russian or chinese.

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Arianya
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Arianya » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:29 pm #476331

iamgoofball wrote:
Arianya wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:people trying to play from China need proxies, and we have a large userbase of Russians who might get locked out normally too if the Russian Firewall actually gets made


This doesn't change the technical issues with proxies. When you use a proxy/VPN you accept you very well might and can be lumped in with other users of that proxy/VPN and that includes potentially being unable to play due to the actions of another user on that proxy/VPN.

There's no way around this other then to not use a proxy/VPN.

Sure, but if someone's using a proxy just ask them if they're russian or chinese.


We wouldn't ask this question because its meaningless and wouldn't change anything. It's unfortunate that people in China/Russia require the usage of VPNs, but it does not change the implication of sharing your IP with others and how that may backfire on you even if you are a well meaning, well behaved player.

This isn't a value judgement on these players, unfortunately just a reality of having to deal with VPNs/proxies.
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iamgoofball
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:31 pm #476334

Arianya wrote:
We wouldn't ask this question because its meaningless and wouldn't change anything

It's not meaningless though? We have the hardware ID system for ban evasion detection already, and when there's a very legitimate reason for folks to use proxies/VPNs that aren't conspiracy retards, discriminating against all users of the software is stupid.

Plus, the current system for proxy detection sucks ass anyways. My static IP that I've had for 10 years is flagged as a proxy by ipintel, the service we use.

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Arianya
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Arianya » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:35 pm #476335

iamgoofball wrote:
Arianya wrote:
We wouldn't ask this question because its meaningless and wouldn't change anything

It's not meaningless though? We have the hardware ID system for ban evasion detection already, and when there's a very legitimate reason for folks to use proxies/VPNs that aren't conspiracy retards, discriminating against all users of the software is stupid.

Plus, the current system for proxy detection sucks ass anyways. My static IP that I've had for 10 years is flagged as a proxy by ipintel, the service we use.


Which is why we don't ban proxies/VPNs by default, but reserve the right to do so if your VPN/proxy is being used for ban evasion/griefing/raiding/etc.
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby NikNakFlak » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:50 pm #476344

Russians don't need proxies wtf
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iamgoofball
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:02 pm #476346

NikNakFlak wrote:Russians don't need proxies wtf

Uh, have you not been following the news? They're literally looking at ripping off the Great Firewall Of China, and anyone who codes for the server needs to use one anyways since Github is still blocked in Russia by all ISPs due to someone leaking KGB shit or something on a repo.

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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby oranges » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:33 pm #476355

What evidence do you have for your belief that china has blocked the byond platform?
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby NikNakFlak » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:35 pm #476383

iamgoofball wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:Russians don't need proxies wtf

Uh, have you not been following the news? They're literally looking at ripping off the Great Firewall Of China, and anyone who codes for the server needs to use one anyways since Github is still blocked in Russia by all ISPs due to someone leaking KGB shit or something on a repo.

Literally 100% speculation about the firewall
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Tamaguen » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:54 pm #476406

There's many Proxies that are very widespread and popular. If somebody is using a VPN that 100 people use and 10 of those people are ban evaders, would you blacklist all users of that service? I'm still trying to gauge what might cause an admin to punish somebody who is using a proxy. Does anybody know how many used regularly log in with a proxy?

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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby NikNakFlak » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:31 am #476414

We blacklist the IPs sometimes
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:44 am #476428

NikNakFlak wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:Russians don't need proxies wtf

Uh, have you not been following the news? They're literally looking at ripping off the Great Firewall Of China, and anyone who codes for the server needs to use one anyways since Github is still blocked in Russia by all ISPs due to someone leaking KGB shit or something on a repo.

Literally 100% speculation about the firewall

It's literally not though.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/russia-to ... nned-test/

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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:25 am #476447

iamgoofball wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
NikNakFlak wrote:Russians don't need proxies wtf

Uh, have you not been following the news? They're literally looking at ripping off the Great Firewall Of China, and anyone who codes for the server needs to use one anyways since Github is still blocked in Russia by all ISPs due to someone leaking KGB shit or something on a repo.

Literally 100% speculation about the firewall

It's literally not though.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/russia-to ... nned-test/

I think this is a valid concern, but should only be something we consider once it goes into full effect
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby BeeSting12 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:44 am #476455

We allow proxies, but it can get you lumped in with a ban evader at times. If GrifferMcShitlord ban evades on the same proxy you're using, then you might get banned for ban evasion and have to explain on the forums, or that entire proxy will already be banned and you're just kinda screwed unless you connect with something else. Could also get stickybanned by accident, which means you'll need to go on the forums again. Plenty of players use proxies with no issue but you might encounter these kinds of head aches.

tldr proxies are allowed but it might inconvenience you to use it.
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Tamaguen » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:50 am #476456

BeeSting12 wrote:We allow proxies, but it can get you lumped in with a ban evader at times. If GrifferMcShitlord ban evades on the same proxy you're using, then you might get banned for ban evasion and have to explain on the forums, or that entire proxy will already be banned and you're just kinda screwed unless you connect with something else. Could also get stickybanned by accident, which means you'll need to go on the forums again. Plenty of players use proxies with no issue but you might encounter these kinds of head aches.

tldr proxies are allowed but it might inconvenience you to use it.


Well, that about sums up everything I needed to know. Thanks for the help, everyone!

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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Booktower » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:38 am #482849

Tamaguen wrote:There's many Proxies that are very widespread and popular. If somebody is using a VPN that 100 people use and 10 of those people are ban evaders, would you blacklist all users of that service? I'm still trying to gauge what might cause an admin to punish somebody who is using a proxy. Does anybody know how many used regularly log in with a proxy?

It's common for other services to do the same, why shouldn't we?

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Arianya
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Re: Policy on proxies

Postby Arianya » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:08 pm #482894

This thread was resolved like a month ago and theres no real reason for it to be open anymore since this policy isn't changing any time soon as far as I'm aware.
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