[DaxYeen] Pandemonium1778 - 'Permanent' Ban

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Pandemnonium1776
 
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 pm

[DaxYeen] Pandemonium1778 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Pandemnonium1776 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:45 pm #480486

BYOND CKEY & Ingame Alias: Pandemonium1778 / Ardenti Sempiternum
Admin Involved: DaxYeen
Ban Type: Server Ban
Ban Duration: Permanent. I assume it was meant to be a month as stated in the reason, but DaxYeen seems to be very emotional when it comes to dealing with me so I'd chalk it up to that.
Ban Reason:
Image
Time of the Ban: 21:20-ish, GMT+2
Server:Terry.

My Side of the Story: I have to preface this by saying that I find DaxYeen's engagement with me to be extremely childish and emotional at all times. I've spoken to plenty of admins over my time on TG's SS13 servers so far and yet only DaxYeen seems to have a desire to see me permanently removed from the playerlist and displays an outright refusal to listen to my explanations whenever I've had to deal with him/her. This includes refusing to accept any explanation I give and only viewing his/her own view of events as the ultimate truth. I also don't think, even if this ban is contextually justified, that a one month ban or permanent ban is acceptable or just. It's far too long relative to what was supposedly done against the rules in this incident.

The event in question took place in the last five minutes of a round, I was in the chapel, playing as the chaplain, talking to someone who wanted to have an honour duel with me when I noticed the Captain request that a borg state his laws. The borg didn't immediately state his laws so the captain started shooting him with a shotgun, the borg then robusted the shit out of him and cuffed him before leaving him be. This is the same borg that earlier in the round helped me kill a nuclear operative and I emagged as a thanks, so it was someone I could trust with IC reason.

It should also be noted the captain was a comdom, repeatedly flaunting power and restraining/brigging people throughout the entire round. But of course, this is an IC issue, so he won't face any admin punishment for that.

I then grabbed the restrained captain but didn't immediately let him go as I was concerned as to why he'd start blasting, he then proceeded to yell at everyone nearby to get me, asked me to release him and so forth and I didn't, nor did anyone jump him for obvious reasons, the lawyer then walked in and I asked him if he'd like the captain's ID because, again, the captain was a comdom all round. i stripped him of his equipment and handed him over to the lawyer after he asked me to give the captain to him.

I did so, and when the lawyer whom I assume was a traitor after the fact, spaced the captain, I did not stop him. Because again, the captain is a comdom and his safety is not my responsibility. I did have to flash the captain twice to get him out of the way though, as the chapel was a very narrow area and I didn't want to have to fiddle around with movement to get into the room.

DaxYeen then messaged me and immediately, as before, took what I said and spun it into his/her own version of things, interpreting what I myself was thinking and what I meant in the words I say rather than reading what I said. Which was quite clearly, that all I did was give the captain to someone who said they wanted the captain. I then did not prevent said person from spacing the captain because again, IC reasons and because it is not my responsibility to bodyguard the captain as a chaplain.

I was then permanently banned, I assume it was meant to be a month ban but - again - that is far too long given what actually transpired in this event. If DaxYeen wants to take some of my previous bans as 'precedent' for a ban like this, I would also disagree because none of those bans have been egregious at all. To my knowledge, I've been banned for failing to understand escalation rules twice and... that's about it, I also had some shorter bans for ICK OCK comments, but those were exceedingly minor and only justified 15 minute bans.

Why should I be unbanned?: Firstly, all of my previous offenses are as said, exceedingly minor. My longest ban to date barring this one was a week long ban for a failure to understand escalation rules if I recall correctly. I've been actively playing on TG station servers for a few hundred hours now, I've played with probably hundreds of players and met dozens of admins on the server the vast majority of whom have no issues with me. Secondly, the incident in question even if you say that the ban is justified, the duration is not. A month long ban for simply standing by as someone spaces someone? Even with the context of them being the captain and me potentially knowing the guy was a traitor - it is not required by the rules that I stop him from spacing the captain. It is not my job nor my responsibility to protect someone who has ruined the round for several players with unjust perma/labour sentences and prison times.

Lastly, I'd like to think I have shown good faith in my time on TG. Plenty of admins and players have interacted with me in the short time I've been here and I like to think I left a positive impression on most. In those cases where I did legitimately deserve a ban, I took the time to evaluate what I did wrong and bettered it. My escalation bans were a failure to understand escalation but I have managed to take the time to understand why and how to better work around those rules, and now play on the server on a regular basis without incident.

The same applies here. The ban is a learning experience for me to better my play around to avoid such incidents in future. And were it another admin who banned me, likely with some more explanation than putting words in my mouth, I likely would have only argued on the basis of the duration, however - my past interactions with DaxYeen lead me to believe that this ban was made entirely on an emotional level, due to his/her dislike of me as a person for whatever reason that might be. I'd actually say that the ban duration on the 'banned' message is actually a perfect example of this, given that an emotional response was likely to accidentally hit permanent rather than time it for a month. As far as I'm aware, no rules were broken during this. I understand that it is shitty for people to let traitors get away with murder, but the rules as far as I am aware do not state that you must explicitly kill anyone who tries to kill the captain or stop them from spacing the captain.

I hope to hear back favorably, I have done my best to display nothing but a willingness to learn, play and help others in my time on TG and will continue to do so regardless of the verdict on this ban.
Last edited by Pandemnonium1776 on Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Dax Dupont
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Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1776 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:54 pm #480489

You stated you knew beforehand we was gonna space him. Also a captain going after a non asimov borg isn't a big surprise.

20:12:18: Reply PM from-Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum): He attacked the borg, got robusted by the borg, asked me to uncuff him - I didn't feel like it because he was a comdom all round, gave him to John(?|F) Bright(?|F) who I assume was a traitor then he spaced him. I didn't do anything, just watched.
20:12:55: PM From DaxYeen/(Caroline Dupont): you handed him to someone who you thought was a traitor because he shot a rogue borg?
20:13:16: Reply PM from-Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum): I know the borg wasn't rogue. he helped me kill a syndie.
20:13:27: PM From DaxYeen/(Caroline Dupont): He wasn't stating laws and harmed a human
20:13:51: Reply PM from-Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum): So? It's not my job to protect the captain against the borg, he was a comdom, someone wanted to space(?|F) him - I just didn't stop them.

This is not emotional at all, this is just what happens if you cross the line too much.

Let me post your previous warnings/incidents:
These are all since mid december till now
Banned from the server for 3 days - Banned for 3 days. Spammed common radio, didn\'t defend himself when asked about it. Ban placed on behalf of booktower.\n
Decapitated someone for breaking into his chapel, terrible escalation.
8? instances of ick ock including several bans
Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - After stealing the ID from a SSD warden and raiding the armory, killed a security officer who was arresting him for theft. He did help them get cloned, but they do have a history of bad escalation.
Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - \"Summary executed an assistant for breaking into the wardens office. When asked why, they said \"On any other map I would have thrown him in a cell, but this map(birdboat) is shit and I will always try to get off the map ASAP\"
Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - Tased and spaced someone on the escape shuttle for no apparent reason. Disconnected before they could be asked what happened.
Banned from the server for 1 week - Blew the syndicate lavaland base as a ghost role before the round ended. Has a history with grief/bad behavoir for little reason.
Warned about purging AIs, gave them a combat upgrade too
Minor warning about using titles in names

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1776 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:59 pm #480490

Here's some logs, i stripped them aside from you and the lawyer:
[2019-03-01 20:07:49.251] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Hey lawyer." (Chapel (91, 70, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:51.216] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "You want to be captain?" (Chapel (91, 70, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:53.703] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "Captain is a condom OwO" (Chapel (92, 71, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:54.472] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "Yes" (Chapel (92, 71, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:55.631] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "He threatened my borg." (Chapel (91, 70, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:58.916] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "All yours." (Chapel (90, 69, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:07:59.166] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "Please" (Chapel (92, 71, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:01.818] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "let me do something" (Chapel (92, 71, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:05.218] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Sure." (Chapel (86, 69, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:06.566] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "send him" (Chapel (88, 70, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:07.589] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "to space" (Chapel (88, 70, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:10.984] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "Or I will" (Chapel (88, 69, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:11.584] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Go for it." (Chapel (86, 69, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:17.760] SAY: Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Come on." (Chapel (86, 69, 2))
[2019-03-01 20:08:25.485] SAY: waluigiisgay/(John Bright) "Give" (Chapel (87, 69, 2))

You deffo knew he was gonna space him and THEN gave him the captain to him. You helped him space the captain

Pandemnonium1776
 
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 pm

Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1776 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Pandemnonium1776 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:02 pm #480492

EDIT: I've stripped this post down somewhat for the sake of posterity.

In the interest of being transparent and addressing the bans/notes brought up in the post following this one, I've asked Booktower to give me a screenshot of the bans/notes against me for easier evaluation in any headmin decision.
I will also give context to each and explain the circumstances around each, as Booktower told me some of them may not hold up to scrutiny/should be appealed.
Spoiler:
Image

1. 2018-12-14, 3 Day ban for COMMS Spam - Booktower/Arianya: I was playing as a comms agent and spammed comms with WGW if I recall correctly, a shitty thing to do honestly and I understand why Booktower had me banned for 3 days for it. I took it on the chin and have since never done so again. I should have known better and thanks to the ban, I do.

2. 2018-12-20 Warned for IC in OOC - DaxYeen I can't remember exaxtly what it was, but something minor enough that I only received a warning.

3. 2018-12-20 Warned for IC in OOC - Penterwast I was made into a cyborg after death as non-antag, I had absolutely no idea how to play them so I asked repeatedly to be put into a human body as I really had no idea what to do as a silicon (and still don't) or what the rules around them are. I do think this was a fair approach to the situation by me, but perhaps I should have ahelped.

4. 2018-12-22 Escalation Ban - DaxYeen A greytider was breaking into my chapel and tried to steal my bible. I overreacted and killed him as I thought people breaking into my workplace allows for severe retaliation. I apologized and cloned the guy then received a 24 hour ban, I tried to understand Escalation rules after this ban but it wasn't clear to me.

5. 2018-12-24 Escalation ban - Penterwast I broke into the armory after stealing from an SSD'd Warden. I wasn't aware that catatonic and SSD were different states at this point nor that I broke a rule by doing so, when I got jumped by a security officer I panicked and overreacted, killing him. I apologized to the admin and made sure to clone the guy and give his stuff back then received a 24 hour ban, at this point I was still struggling to understand escalation rules. I spent 10 hours (roughly) after this point watching rounds in ghost to try and figure out the appropriate responses to B&E and escalation, and like to think I did a good job as no further escalation bans really occured beyond this point.

6. 2018-12-26 Banned for IC in OOC - DaxYeen I was talking about the AI being rogue near round end, I think the shuttle was already called but I really can't remember - I do think this was a deserved ban though so I took this one on the chin without complaint.

7. 2018-12-30 Griefing? - Bgobandit This one was absolutely a deserved ban and honestly, I do think I should have gotten longer for this. I acted like an idiot because of a map that didn't suit me and quite a few other people on the round. BirdBoat was an extremely rough map and quite a few people were frustrated after playing it so I overreacted badly out of anger at being stuck on the map. I fully understand that this ban was justified and apologize sincerely for my actions, I have since avoided doing anything of the sort again and will continue to do so.

8. 2019-01-13 Tase, Space and Disconnect - Penterwast This one was me being stupid, I was tired after a long day and acted like an idiot. I didn't actually disconnect but I may as well have, my internet here in Greece where I play from is mobile and is very flaky, vulnerable to disconnects. This one, as with the above, I can't and won't defend. I deserved to be punished for this ban and learned from my mistakes on this one, as one can see by the duration since the ban transpired.

9. 2019-01-15 Destroyed Lavaland Syndicate Base before Round End - DaxYeen This one I had problems with from when it was issued as the detonation occurred under the following criteria. Firstly, all other syndicate ghost roles had been taken and they had all died. I was the last one left on lavaland and secondly, the shuttle had been called and was five minutes away from arriving. I didn't argue this ban however as I felt that technically speaking this was a rule violation, even if there was no possible way for anyone else to suffer from my actions or to even spawn at lavaland after the action occurred.

10. 2019-02-03 Warned for purging the AI and gave them combat upgrades - DaxYeen This one is a fair note I think. Nothing malicious occurred but basically it was a three hour extended shift in which the crew decided to give the AI free will, I was the one who purged it and also the one who gave it combat upgrades late into the round. No one got hurt or anything, the AI was a total bro but after learning that I could have been punished and technically violated rules, I have refrained from messing with AIs in such a way again.

11. 2019-02-03 Warned about titles in name - DaxYeen I had the title 'Ser' before my character name, so Ser Ardenti Sempiternum.

12. 2019-02-28 Banned for IC in OOC - Dorsidwarf This was another deserved ban. I accidentally let slip the game mode in OOC before round end or shuttle call, so I understand why it was a necessary ban and I'm going to be careful in future to make sure my OOC messages follow ICK OCK rules more accurately.

13. 2019-03-01 Banned for standing by as a captain was killed by a person I knew was a traitor - DaxYeen After some reflection I do think this ban is legitimate too and deserved, I understand that if I know someone is a traitor I should take action rather than standing by. I do still think it is an unfair ban on the grounds that many times on Terry, traitors are allowed to roam free with the protection of the crew as they often play as peaceful traitors who help out the crew and emag consoles. I also do think it is an unfair duration, given the offense in question and that the precedent for which I was banned is decidedly false.


Now, to reflect on this, I would like to hope that seeing the time between bans/notes and some explanation on each, the precedent for me being malicious or a rule breaker or even crossing the line isn't really there. I'm a new player, I am trying my best to fit in and have taken steps to mitigate the impact my newbieness has on other players. Even in my earliest days where I was violating escalation rules, I made sure to get people cloned as I felt bad for taking them out of the round. I am not trying to be an arsehole. I am not trying to cross the line or be malicious.

This is a confusing game, I am trying to fit in but I don't feel like this latest punishment is really taking into account that fact and is instead treating me as if I am purposefully ruining rounds. I really hope a headmin will look into this and overrule this ruling. I enjoy playing on TG, I enjoy the people, I enjoy the environment and I like to think people enjoy interacting with me as well. I hope to hear back favourably, and as I've mentioned to the headmins in PM, if you choose to uphold the verdict DaxYeen has issued I will respect that and take the month to reflect, learn and return to TG with a better understanding than I had before.

Cheers,

Pandemonium1778.
Last edited by Pandemnonium1776 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:33 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1776 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:05 pm #480493

I don't think you've improved or shown actual willingness to improve. A month ago is not far away note/ban timewise. You joined our server on 2018-12-14 and before this one you racked up 7 bans and 12 notes.

You cannot help antags, and you can't help people space the captain for no reason. You got someone removed from the round because your emagged borg friend got attacked.

I'm denying this appeal and the headmins can decide to override or not.

Pandemnonium1776
 
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:20 pm

Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1776 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Pandemnonium1776 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:21 pm #480497

I'd say context is key. You can say 7 bans, but of that perhaps 3 are for escalation which I haven't had an issue with in almost two months. Two or three are for ICK OCK, but really minor things which only justified 15 minute bans, and one which you issued for blowing up the syndicate base four minutes before round end, while there were no other ghost roles on the syndie base. I would ask you to please post timestamps for the bans you bring up though, as I do think it is relevant to note that the last time I've had issues with escalation or otherwise was a month or two ago.

I was new to SS13 and was getting into TG's ruleset as far as the escalation rules go, this is a complicated game for someone to get into and from the first time we interacted I could feel the pessimistic view you had of players, I had a confusing time trying to figure out the rules and had to take steps to play within them. This includes spending about 10 hours worth of time observing in rounds and watching how people responded to B&E and being attacked to better style my play. There is a lot to learn in this game and I'm still learning on a daily basis, I've done my best to ensure that my playstyle fits in with the TG rules but obviously sometimes you're going to have hiccups. I had an IC reason for disliking the captain and did not directly contribute to his death.

As far as helping antags goes - I did nothing to help him, I flashed the captain twice to get him out of my way but the firing of the railgun and the positioning of the captain into the chamber was all him. He even had access to the room so could have done so without me, I did nothing to directly aid him in his effort to kill the captain. I didn't stop him, sure, but I've seen people fail to stop traitors on so many rounds and so rarely get banned, so deciding to crucify me with a month long ban over something so common is something I find really unjust.

We'll see if a headmin decides to deal with this then, I suppose. I hope so, as I can't put into words how unjust I find the duration of this ban given the weak precedent.
Last edited by Pandemnonium1776 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:18 am

Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1778 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby JGlitch404 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:25 am #480933

Made an account just to give more of a perspective of why this happened, the Captain asked me to state my laws, I was emagged but that doesnt have much to do with it, I was going to state them anyway, but first I said ''ur mom homosexuality'', in response, he shot at me point blank with his riot shotgun. I started throwing him spanish insults and I reduced him and cuffed him, without harming him whatsoever, then, I got locked down because he cried in comms.
After that, I couldnt do much about what happened, but in my opinion that captain deserved it anyway, treat people like shit get treated like shit, wich brings me to another point.
Pandemonium is not a shitter, shitters are lynched, he's made friends with a lot of characters in the station, wich help him with augs, equipment, hell, even some heads give him permission to carry weapons and shit, he's rarely arrested (or at least I didnt witness it) and gives a general good vibes to everyone involved in that round, if he had problematic behaviour, if he was a shitter, like, an actual shitter... Nobody would care about him or help him, its 1+1=2, considering he never changes his name.

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:57 pm.
Reason: Peanut gallery post - User was warned

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:58 pm.
Reason: Response to delete

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Dax Dupont
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Re: [DaxYeen] Pandemonium1778 - 'Permanent' Ban

Postby Dax Dupont » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:04 pm #481795

It's been a week without an headmin response so I'm taking this as that they have no input and I'm considering this closed.


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