What the fuck is wrong with the adrenal implant?

[AssassinT90]

Yes.=, I dead. Yes, I mad.

It all starts like this:

Dexter Morgan says, "can i have some hyperzine"
Reed Glover says, "Okay, one sec."
...
[Little bit later]
...
[Common] Beau Moore (Assistant) says, "DEXTER MORGAN"
[Common] Beau Moore (Assistant) says, "SPACING ME"

Now, he had hyperzine. He moved almost as fast as an alien hunter (which is also broken, but let's focus on the matter at hand). I am a HoP. I did not have to do anything. That was not my job. But still...

You extend the baton.
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) fires the energy gun!
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) fires the energy gun!
[Common] Blue-Hail.exe V-VII (AI) queries, "Can you guys find and kill Ian before he does something intelligent?"
Charles Schofield shivers.
You fire the energy gun!
Charles Schofield shivers.
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) is hit by an electrode in the chest!
You fire the energy gun!
You fire the energy gun!
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) is hit by an electrode in the chest!
Charles Schofield is trying to put handcuffs on Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green)!
You fail to handcuff Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green).
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) twitches violently.
You fire the taser gun point blank at Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green)!
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) is hit by an electrode in the chest!
You fire the taser gun point blank at Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green)!
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) is hit by an electrode in the chest!
You put the taser gun into the backpack.
Charles Schofield is trying to put handcuffs on Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green)!
You fail to handcuff Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green).

[...]

You fire the energy gun!
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) is hit by an electrode in the chest!
You slipped!
[Common] John Doe (Captain) says, "He is in maint."
Dexter Morgan (as Luke Green) has stunned you with the stunbaton!

Aaand... I'm dead.

I get cloned and come around for round two.

Charles Schofield shivers.
[Common] Char Aznable (Assistant) says, "sup"
You fire the taser gun!
Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID) is hit by an electrode in the right leg!
You fire the taser gun!
You fire the taser gun!
OOC: Gnomefest: Balut, ebow range is being reduced to 7 tiles. If they're that close to you, better to stick it in your bag and run
Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID) is hit by an electrode in the right leg!
OOC: Nerolat: There WILL be a nerf
The stunbaton is now on.
Charles Schofield has stunned Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID) with the stunbaton!
Charles Schofield has stunned Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID) with the stunbaton!
Charles Schofield blinks rapidly.
OOC: Flazeo25: coders tend to not put much though into changes
OOC: Nerolat: Not only that
Charles Schofield is trying to put handcuffs on Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID)!
You fail to handcuff Dexter Morgan (as Emergency ID).

And then I die. Again. Like, for real? Want me to go around lasering people instead of cuffing them? Because when you make it impossible for me to cuff people, that's when you get me to laser people before cuffing them. No, for real, nerf that shit.

[Kraso]

stop sucking and outright crit them

[AssassinT90]

stop sucking and outright crit them

And then I get banned for excessive force. I did it in the past.

No, like, for real. I got banned for using an e-bow to stun a guy. He went to crit due to toxin damage and succumbed before I could help him up.

[Jeb]

I can't speak for the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure at that point it should be fine to fucking kill the dude, have him cloned and arrest his new body.

Hell arrest the old one too. If they try and pull the "excessive force" thing..have them/show them the logs that show the other person constantly getting up.

[youngbuckliontiger]

he killed everyone in the station all for the hypospray.

[mikecari]

Stun-blocks are pretty OP overall, especially from synaptizine..

[youngbuckliontiger]

stop sucking and outright crit them

And then I get banned for excessive force. I did it in the past.

No, like, for real. I got banned for using an e-bow to stun a guy. He went to crit due to toxin damage and succumbed before I could help him up.

You don't get banned for using excessive force on antagonist. I bet that guy you critted was a non-antag.

[AssassinT90]

Yes, That's true, he was a non-antag. And he succumbed before I could do anything to help him up (I always carry a medikit). That was enough reason for a valid ban. Since then, I have refrained from lasering people and then cuffing their asses.

Until now, that is.

[Raven776]

I don't think excessive force applies to people who are chemmed out...

I'd hope not anyways. Once upon a time, I was synapped with full brute protection from a mining hardsuit and a dual esword. People kept trying to taser me. The end.

If something is dangerous, crit their ass. I've never seen excessive force apply to ANYONE that had a weapon drawn, actually...

[AssassinT90]

I would say we could really use a cooldown for the adrenal implant. That guy had six charges. Six times he could get up. He had hyperzine and an ablative vest. There's only so many times you can stun a guy before you run out of charges.

People getting up over and over again is just... Messed up.

[Scones]

That's what happens when this shithole of a server hires autistic admins with no feelings and who'd rather have their 15 seconds of glory rather than talk like a human fucking being.

There's an admin complaints board, you know.

I can't speak for the powers that be, but I'm pretty sure at that point it should be fine to fucking kill the dude, have him cloned and arrest his new body.

Hell arrest the old one too. If they try and pull the "excessive force" thing..have them/show them the logs that show the other person constantly getting up.

HoPcurity is horrible and as someone who plays HoP a bit, I discourage it. However, if people are being shits and there are no other authority figures around, I'd personally feel free to subdue, cuff, and hold them until Security picks them up.

[Skorvold]

If a guy is obviously using every tool at his disposal to resist arrest and shows that he doesn't want to go in to custody the harm free way, then you're more than allowed to enlighten him with a few burning blasts to the face. If he ahelps about it we'll just review it and see it as clean cut as it is. People who succumb often lose their right to complain, and judging from the log of the ban you're mentioning there was a lot more too it than just "I shot a guy with an ebow he die i ban."

Critted a security officer with an ebow for dragging another security officer. Indicative of his powergaming mindset, assuming they must be a traitor and deciding to attack them just in case. Claimed that it was based on his lack of cuffs, which isn't good enough, as well as his fear, which isn't really good enough either. He is a decent guy but his playstyle just doesn't change and he isn't acknowledging his mistake in the slightest.

[Cipher3]

If someone uses all their TC on adrenal implants it's ridiculous, but then so is the idea of spending all your TC on one item. Adrenal implants are pretty much fine, and even somewhat underused, as it stands.

[paprika]

If someone gets up immediately after you stun them with an electrode they are either inhuman or hyped up on drugs, shoot him to crit.

However, arguably you could be questioned by admins for doing that since you're HoP and not security. Your gun should be for self defense, not arresting people. I suggest calling security next time.

[Steelpoint]

I can speak from personal experience.

If a suspect is able to break out of handcuffs, or resist stuns by getting up, you can freely place them into critical if not kill them to subdue them, since at that point non-lethal means of stopping them have failed. I've never been warned or banned for doing that.

[danno]

you sound like you need to become informed not need a nerf

[AssassinT90]

The problem is that you can't always laser people to death after stunning him. Once you switch your e-gun to laser, assuming you have enough charges left, they get up and start running again. There's really very little that can be done against an armed man with adrenal implants. As I said, maybe a cooldown to the implants could keep them from getting up multiple times, over and over again.

[youngbuckliontiger]

I suggest this be moved to feedback if we are talking about nerfing adrenal implants.

[AssassinT90]

HoPcurity is horrible and as someone who plays HoP a bit, I discourage it. However, if people are being shits and there are no other authority figures around, I'd personally feel free to subdue, cuff, and hold them until Security picks them up.

How dare you? Don’t you dare say that! I did the job I didn't have to do, and I died doing it. Do you understand? I fought for those who had been abandoned, I fought for others, and I died because I tried to keep the other guy alive. People like me always die because of that. There is The Beast, all around us. It’s that thing that shows up when you want to harmbaton a nasty murderer to death. But it is a beast, and that's all it is. A beast. Useful, but still a beast. You can hold it on a chain, and make it dance, and juggle balls. It doesn't think. It is dumb. What you are, what YOU are, is not The Beast. And that's why I did not kill Dexter. When we break down, it all breaks down. That’s just how it works. You can bend the Space Law, and if you make it hot enough you can bend it in a circle, but you can’t break it. When you break it, it all breaks down until there’s nothing unbroken.

[youngbuckliontiger]

And that's why I did not kill Dexter.

You never had the chance of killing me anyway in the first place. You were better off stunning me, cuffing me, then killing me than killing me after you stunned me.

[AssassinT90]

Actually, uhm, yes, I could have killed you. There's this wonderful thing called "laser mode" in the e-gun. It crits in five shots.

[youngbuckliontiger]

Actually, uhm, yes, I could have killed you. There's this wonderful thing called "laser mode" in the e-gun. It crits in five shots.

once you used your laser mode. I woulda gotten up and ran away easy.

[AssassinT90]

Not without taking a couple shots at least. And that'd slow you down, and you being slow means you being dead. There was also that second time. I REALLY thought of dragging you into the turrets and letting AI do the work. But no, let's arrest him.

[youngbuckliontiger]

Not without taking a couple shots at least. And that'd slow you down, and you being slow means you being dead. There was also that second time. I REALLY thought of dragging you into the turrets and letting AI do the work. But no, let's arrest him.

Hyperzine can outrun lasers and you can't drag me if im up again. So i just beat you up with the baton.

[AssassinT90]

Not without taking a couple shots at least. And that'd slow you down, and you being slow means you being dead. There was also that second time. I REALLY thought of dragging you into the turrets and letting AI do the work. But no, let's arrest him.

Hyperzine can outrun lasers and you can't drag me if im up again. So i just beat you up with the baton.

You can't outrun lasers if you have nowhere to run. Remember the first place I stunned you. Inside the security outpost. You were cornered.

[Ergovisavi]

If someone is effectively immune to stuns, they're either A) A syndicate operative with an adrenal implant, B) A changeling, C) A hulk. If you're incapable of nonlethally detaining someone, lasering them to crit has always been okay.

[youngbuckliontiger]

Actually i didn't have to run, i coulda just stunned you with the taser gun that i have in my backpack from the previous two security officers that i killed.

[AssassinT90]

But Ergo, as our friend has pointed out, as soon as one switches his gun to laser, he would get up and run. It is a broken system. Especially if it can be done six times.

[Cuboos]

The problem is that you can't always laser people to death after stunning him. Once you switch your e-gun to laser, assuming you have enough charges left, they get up and start running again. There's really very little that can be done against an armed man with adrenal implants. As I said, maybe a cooldown to the implants could keep them from getting up multiple times, over and over again.

Use Hotkeys.

[paprika]

Wait what the fuck you can use the adrenal implant six times?

Or is that just the highest potential for 20tc?

Adrenal implants should be dirt cheap but only one-use or whatever so it's more likely for traitors to have them. This is also especially good because it makes it so tasers aren't so riddick OP 'lol stunned tiem for permabrig'

[Stickymayhem]

Literally can't tell if assassin is this mad or trolling.

[Raven776]

If you're so angry about chem implants, go to chemistry and make some of your own...

Seriously, it's not that hard to get 20 units of synap, 10 units of hyperzine, and 20 units of tricord or DD and make yourself a chem implant you can pop to robust the crime dogs.

[Cipher3]

Wait what the fuck you can use the adrenal implant six times?

Or is that just the highest potential for 20tc?

Adrenal implants should be dirt cheap but only one-use or whatever so it's more likely for traitors to have them. This is also especially good because it makes it so tasers aren't so riddick OP 'lol stunned tiem for permabrig'

I'm pretty sure the traitor spent max TC and bought three and that they can be used twice for like 6 tc or so. Otherwise it's totally broken.

But if this was a case of someone spending all their TC on adrenal implants one time so they'd be super-no-stun, I'll believe it's a serious problem when it starts getting heavily mimicked.

[Aleph]

Rob seems to love abusing it now, so it's going to either get nerfed like polyacid or he's going to be too predictable and get validhunted like many other antags in the past that kept relying on one or two gimmicks

Also with a jetpack, you are literally unkillable. Get a nuke op to just cruse outside the windows with an implant and kill every officer that tries to fire at them

Though with the stun changes and the want to make the disabler more popular, the implant could go the way of the dodo just because of the meta change

[Ergovisavi]

If you're so angry about chem implants, go to chemistry and make some of your own...

Seriously, it's not that hard to get 20 units of synap, 10 units of hyperzine, and 20 units of tricord or DD and make yourself a chem implant you can pop to robust the crime dogs.

Except that's not how it works.

Adenaline implants set your various CC attributes to 0 and also call UpdateMove(), so you can instantly remove a stun from your person. Meanwhile, synaptizine simply cuts your stun times in half (You naturally recover 1 weaken per tick, but synaptizine adds another 1 to that, so 2 weaken per tick. A taser is weaken(5), so you'd still be weakened for 3 ticks, or 6 seconds.

Synaptizine isn't the useful part of the adrenaline implant, it's the instant recovery.

For the record, the adrenaline implant costs 8 TC each, for 3 uses per implant, for a total of 6 uses out of 20 telecrystals.

[AssassinT90]

Literally can't tell if assassin is this mad or trolling.

Thanks for your valuable input. Very good argumentation, as always, Sticky. Flawless logic supported by examples and facts.

Good rhetoric like yours brings tears to my eyes.

[lumipharon]

even if you have an adrenal implant (or two), you still drop your shit when you get stunned, and it still takes a moment for you to actually press the adrenal button. In this time the shooter can be closing on you, and as long as they pay attention, stun you as soon as you get up. Since you dropped your shit/still in your bag etc, the shooter has the advantage, if you try and fight after using the implant.

So yes, it can be used to stunbreak and run away, which is pretty intended, but if you use it to stand and fight, even a normal sec officer can tase, close the gab, tase some more, and once they're in melee range, they can baton you to shit and your fucked.