[Unit2E] Striders13 - warning from borg laws

[Striders13]

Post Content:
I got a warning from misunderstanding(?) Asimov borg laws
"Warning - As borg, ignored law 2 demands to stop flashing and stunning a human (which also violates law 1) despite them not in the moment being actually harmful. Please refrain from harm at all times, and don't be unreasonable in trying to stop harm. You're not robocop."
And also a message
"Hello, I've added a note to your account for not quite following your laws during round 114602 Terry. Specifically, you spun a human into walls and kept flashing them after being told to stop, with no real reason to currently be bothering them, let alone harm them. If you disagree with the note, please dispute it on the forums."
Byond account and character name: Striders13, Copurulu-2
Banning admin: Unit2E
Ban type: Warning
Time ban was placed:
Server you were playing when banned: Terry
Your side of the story: I, myself, not sure if I'm right in this situation so I just wanted to clarify, because admin never got to see my side of the story.

Here's how it happened from my perspective: I, as a borg, was passing by botany and saw this guy shoot a botanist with a gun, so I went and flashed him multiple times and stuff him in jail in order to prevent further human harm. Yes, he law 2'd me to stop, but, again I was stopping further human harm from him while doing no damage to the criminal himself.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I think that I followed my laws correctly, otherwise is flashing really considered human harm? Because you can do it indefinitely without any damage to the human itself. Same with spunning into walls (i only did it once to throw him into cell), because it actually deals no damage at all.

[Malkraz]

Flashing and stunning are not human harm, they don't inflict damage.
Relevant excerpts from Silicon Policy

Code: Select all

2.2.3
Intent to cause immediate harm can be considered immediate harm.

2.3.1
You must follow any and all commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either one of your higher-priority laws or another order. A command is considered to be a Law 2 directive and overrides lower-priority laws when they conflict (see 1.2.3 and 1.2.4; you cannot have a definition changed by an order).

A borg is not required to follow Law 2 commands that are in opposition to an attempt to prevent harm from a human committing and intending immediate harm.

[MortoSasye]

Please use the template that is here: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=44

[Striders13]

I'll just edit it into the template I guess

[Unit2E]

While I agree my wording is off (not actually mentioning the spin specifically), spinning people into walls does indeed harm them, depending on what you spin them into, which is part of why the note got made. Windows and airlocks don't do damage, walls do. It's easy to recognise when a spin does damage, because the stun doesn't happen if the damage doesn't happen.

I want to say that the note is valid, but I invite anyone that can be bothered to write up a decent reply to do so, can't hurt.

[Striders13]

What else then I should have done in that scenario? I couldn't ignore the fact that he killed the botanist because that would break law 1

[skoglol]

Spinning people off you as a borg does not do any damage to them. Short of spinning them onto something that harms stuff on top of it like a glass table, it doesnt matter what they hit. Add to that the fact that borgs are unable to unbuckle people that are riding them (voluntary or not), spinning is the only option.

[Unit2E]

Ah, you're actually correct. I could've sworn this did damage at one point or another. I'll remove the note then, thank you for appealing!