[Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

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Doctor Ape
 
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[Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Doctor Ape » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:55 am #525616

BYOND account: <DoctorApe>
Character name: <Magikarp>
Ban type: <Serverban>
Ban length: <14 days>
Ban reason: <Can't be copied, therefore image: https://imgur.com/a/2Khlmk5>
Time ban was placed: <11:22:33 2019-11-25>
Server you were playing on when banned: <Event Hall>
Round ID in which ban was placed: <124431>
Your side of the story: <Xenobiologist tells me that I'm free to do whatever, I start fireballing people as Magikarp.>
Why you think you should be unbanned: <Me being ordered to be free by my master unlocked all choices of decisionmaking for me except breaking my red text orders: Following my masters command. At no point did I break my lawset and at no point did my master tell me to stop. Additionally I acted like a free, angry, magical karp would react landing on the station: Hunting down everything and everyone with my abilities. Space Karps are not naturally friendly with the crew, as seen by carp migrations. The admin could not show me a headmin ruling regarding Xenobio creatures having to act specifically friendly towards the crew even when freed from their shackles. I regarded Xenobio creatures regarding their laws always similar to an AI which has to follow its laws at all costs but can't be made responsible for errors in said laws, e.g purge AI lawsets. I played like this for over half a year on Event Hall now and I believe the only reason I actually got banned was because I was too efficient at it/killed too many crew members.>



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Naloac
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Naloac » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:20 pm #525618

Your not an antagonist unless specifically stated otherwise. You had no idea if your master was an antagonist. *he wasnt by the way* You cant just take *being free* as a license to murderbone. A free AI cannot murderbone. In our ahelp log you seemed to be basing your argument off of that, Which is infact not true. You where also camping arrivals and killing people who just walked off the shuttle. as you said *paraphrasing here* that the station is fair game. Which in fact it is not.

Since you also believe that purged AIs can just fucking kill everyone let me take this from our rules Image

In short, No Your murdered nearly everyone on the station from the simple term of "be free" and I in no way can see that as a *o I can murder everyone*. As I already said in this post. YOU CANNOT ACT AS AN ANTAGONIST WITHOUT BEING ONE. What you did want blatant self antagging. trying to twist the term *be free* into mass murder.
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Doctor Ape
 
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Doctor Ape » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:22 pm #525619

"You where also camping arrivals and killing people who just walked off the shuttle. as you said *paraphrasing here* that the station is fair game. Which in fact it is not."

This is neither what I said nor what I did. I killed people that ran into the arrivals part of the station, not people coming freshly out of the shuttle. I argued that arrivals is free game as in, "already established crew that is walking around there"

Additionally I would argue that the non antag part does not apply, giving that karps are by nature hostile creatures, more comparable to spiders or xenomorphs than to borgs regarding behaviour outside of law-enforced behaviour.

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Naloac
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Naloac » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:43 pm #525623

Doctor Ape wrote:"You where also camping arrivals and killing people who just walked off the shuttle. as you said *paraphrasing here* that the station is fair game. Which in fact it is not."

This is neither what I said nor what I did. I killed people that ran into the arrivals part of the station, not people coming freshly out of the shuttle. I argued that arrivals is free game as in, "already established crew that is walking around there"

Additionally I would argue that the non antag part does not apply, giving that karps are by nature hostile creatures, more comparable to spiders or xenomorphs than to borgs regarding behaviour outside of law-enforced behaviour.



This is where you said it was free to kill people in, which is infact not true.
ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Doctorape/(magicarp)->Naloac/(eas): they did not spawn there though. arrivals is not a kill free zone, shuttle is.
Arrivals is where you should almost NEVER be murdering.
11:00:42.064] GAME: Neroky/(Tyson Clarke) Client Neroky/(Tyson Clarke) has taken ownership of mob (/mob/living/carbon/human) (start area (8, 174, 1))
11:01:40.044] EMOTE: Neroky/(Tyson Clarke) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (50, 145, 2))

1 minute is when he died. He got onto the station for ONE minute meaning yes he DID just spawn and you almost instantly murdered him.

heres the log of you killing the man at arrivals who just arrived
ATTACK: Doctorape/(magicarp) has shot Neroky/(Tyson Clarke) with the bolt of fireball (NEWHP: 100) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (53, 137, 2))
And if we check where this was its at
Image
2 steps outside the airlock this man got out of before you bolted him

When your given sentience by a human you are effectively A PERSON that has to deal with ESCALATION. You cant use the "im a wild animal" excuse because your not. Your a sentience potion made Carp that has to follow regular rules unless told otherwise by the spawner.
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Doctor Ape
 
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Doctor Ape » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:06 pm #525630

I'm pretty sure the guy in the top left of arrivals was catatonic when I fireball'd him. But thats besides the point. I'm not saying that I didn't kill people in arrivals. Just that I didn't kill people that I saw leaving the shuttle freshly.

I plead my case. Yes I may have made the wrong judgement with the guy in arrivals, but the other kills are in my opinion valid, given that there is no headmin precedence to such a case yet, nor is it red texted, enforced by other admins or out of character.

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Qbmax32
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Qbmax32 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:40 pm #525635

Doctor Ape wrote:I plead my case. Yes I may have made the wrong judgement with the guy in arrivals, but the other kills are in my opinion valid, given that there is no headmin precedence to such a case yet, nor is it red texted, enforced by other admins or out of character.



There doesn’t need to be a “headmin precedent” for anything here. It says right there in big black letters when you spawn in to follow the orders of the guy who created you. He told you to “be free”. He did not tell you “go murder people”, you did that of your own violation.

Dancing around the rules trying to say that “magikarps are dangerous creatures” and “my master never told me to stop” is irrelevant. You are are still beholden to the rules as any ghost role, and while some like ashwalkers are explicitly told that escalation rules with the crew are relaxed, xenobio mobs certainly aren’t.

Even if there was some magical world where there hasn’t been a long-standing precedent of banning people who do this, you still would have been banned on rule 1 alone. Going out of your way to take multiple people out of the round (including people who literally just spawned) for no other reason then “I’m an angry magikarp lol” and “my master never told me to stop” is you being a dick, pure and simple.
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Naloac
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Naloac » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:43 pm #525636

I was about to post literally what Qbmax said. Unless you can somehow convince me how I made a serious mistake and those over 14 kills where 100% valid. This appeal is denied.
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PostThis post was deleted by MortoSasye on Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:09 pm.
Reason: Peanut, you're repeating the same that was said above.

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Hulkamania
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Re: [Naloac] Doctor Ape Temp ban for killing staff as completely free Magikarp

Postby Hulkamania » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:43 am #526962

As no one has convinced him that he made a serious mistakes and shown that those over 14 kills are valid, this appeal is still denied.


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