[MRP] Separate and less optional Space Law Section for Security

[Lacran]

Within MRP currently we have roleplay rules 3 ( if you're in Security, you're expected to put in some effort and do your job) and 6 (When dealing with the crew and antagonists, make sure their punishments are in proportion to their crimes) which impact how Security should be played. An issue I've run into round-to-round is how loose the role of security actually is having Space law being as optional as it is on MRP. You'll find Security tends to devolve into two camps, Security who sit in the brig or bar rping, actively ignoring crimes as they occur and valid hunting psychopaths.

What I'd like to see is people's thoughts on a revamped and more restrictive set of space law standards which could be applicable under rule 3, and help better inform rule 6 interpretations towards security. I think using space law to outline security's responsibilities in a less optional manner and to better inform crew as to what consequences their actions may entail.

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Cringe.

The best parts of sec are when you come up with unique punishments for criminals.

One round sec caught a moth with tator gear and some guys brain in his bag. We told him if he survived multiple bouts in the newly built arena that we would let him go.

This was a vastly more interesting story for all parties than "well it says in the book we have to chop your head off, sorry chum".

[Lacran]

Cringe.

The best parts of sec are when you come up with unique punishments for criminals.

One round sec caught a moth with tator gear and some guys brain in his bag. We told him if he survived multiple bouts in the newly built arena that we would let him go.

This was a vastly more interesting story for all parties than "well it says in the book we have to chop your head off, sorry chum".

I don't want to shoot creativity in the foot here because I agree that creative punishments, and creative trials need to still have a place, and trials by combat are usually a captain's descion anyway. What I would be restricting is when these kinds of executions or trials would be taking place.

[legality]

I think establishing SOPs for searching prisoners, what to do when there's a comms blackout, how and when to partner up if there's conversion antags abroad, etc. is important. At the same time, the things you directly address in your post, like officers who chitchat in the bar, are not problems that I think need addressing. We play the game to have fun. Unless you're a head of staff, ignoring the mechanical expectations of your job is fine if you're in the middle of an RP scene and you're enjoying it.

[Lacran]

I think establishing SOPs for searching prisoners, what to do when there's a comms blackout, how and when to partner up if there's conversion antags abroad, etc. is important. At the same time, the things you directly address in your post, like officers who chitchat in the bar, are not problems that I think need addressing. We play the game to have fun. Unless you're a head of staff, ignoring the mechanical expectations of your job is fine if you're in the middle of an RP scene and you're enjoying it.

To clarify I wasn't taking issue with officers socializing and ignoring a particular situation, I was bringing up two extreme examples people tend to gravitate towards. The camp where officers ignore their responsibilities entirely, and those that focus entirely too much on the one concrete aspect of the job, validhunting. Security doing their job to some minimal degree is still a requirement under the rules, having it better outlined as to what that job actually is, and what the expectations are, would be helpful and can help prevent the constant drama we see in sec, which isn't fun.

[Misdoubtful]

Within MRP currently we have roleplay rules 3 ( if you're in Security, you're expected to put in some effort and do your job) and 6 (When dealing with the crew and antagonists, make sure their punishments are in proportion to their crimes) which impact how Security should be played. An issue I've run into round-to-round is how loose the role of security actually is having Space law being as optional as it is on MRP. You'll find Security tends to devolve into two camps, Security who sit in the brig or bar rping, actively ignoring crimes as they occur and valid hunting psychopaths.

What I'd like to see is people's thoughts on a revamped and more restrictive set of space law standards which could be applicable under rule 3, and help better inform rule 6 interpretations towards security. I think using space law to outline security's responsibilities in a less optional manner and to better inform crew as to what consequences their actions may entail.

I feel its important to note the remaining part of 6 here: 'If an antagonist shows a willingness to engage with you, do your best to reciprocate it, though leniency as to their punishment is still in your court'. If someone wants to use space law as it is (even though its kinda terrible) as a response to something they can, its optional. If they want to come up with creative punishment instead they can, its optional. If they want to use a mix of both they can, its optional.

I'm not really sure how a more restrictive space law page would fix what seems to be portrayed as a cultural and/or IC issue with a document thats there as a RP suggestion/reference. If things are dull someone can liven things up. If things are too loose someone can tighten things up.

Space law is a suggested baseline of how to respond to things, not really an inciter of responding (or not responding) in general.

[Lacran]

I feel its important to note the remaining part of 6 here: 'If an antagonist shows a willingness to engage with you, do your best to reciprocate it, though leniency as to their punishment is still in your court'. If someone wants to use space law as it is (even though its kinda terrible) as a response to something they can, its optional. If they want to come up with creative punishment instead they can, its optional. If they want to use a mix of both they can, its optional.

I'm not really sure how a more restrictive space law page would fix what seems to be portrayed as a cultural and/or IC issue with a document thats there as a RP suggestion/reference. If things are dull someone can liven things up. If things are too loose someone can tighten things up.

Space law is a suggested baseline of how to respond to things, not really an inciter of responding (or not responding) in general.

Yes, but there's still OOC standards staff and the community hold as to what is fair to do and what is not, we have some idea of what warrants a perma sentence and what does not, and we have some notion of a prisoner that should not be released and one that should. Common sense is great, but not everyone has it, and sometimes in complex situations it can be very helpful to have a reference that establishes both options and boundaries beyond just what your gut feeling was at the time. Knowing when to tighten things up, and knowing when to loosen is the issue I'm trying to address.

The goal wouldn't be to simply take space law and say "okay, this is no longer optional on MRP" the goal would be to create a new page for MRP Space law that would better reflect what the standards are for MRP Security and could be used as a reference in an OOC dispute or ahelp as to what was fair, or what the job entails.

[Cobby]

I don’t want AI 2.0 where security is knowingly playing by the books to be a massive faggot both IC and in OOC when admins start asking about it.

There is no need for a MRP section for security, the current times are certainly fair given they are fine for use in games that take half as long as Manuel rounds.

[cacogen]

I've always wanted security to not be at the discretion of the shitlers who play it

[remanseptim]

"please, sir, take me out of the round and put me in a 3x3 box because i have space weed"
brig sucks as a concept, any time a seccie comes up with an alternative to sitting around doing jack fucking shit the better

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Honestly replacing brig/timers with more of a focus on gulag wouldn't be bad though.

[Screemonster]

The MRP rules even specifically say that real life realism isn't required or expected, and silliness within the context of the ss13 universe, the universe where the space station employs a clown, is allowed and encouraged. Why would you want to restrict that?

Also I can speak from experience that SOP documents are fucking terrible when they fall into the hands of no-fun-allowed dickheads. NOOO WE HAVE TO HAVE A STRICT POLICY AND PROCEDURE FOR EVERYTHING AND IF YOU DEVIATE FROM IT I'LL AHELP YOU FOR FAILRP jesus fucking christ you have no idea how much I hated these assholes when I had to deal with them as a HRP admin
Oh and god forbid you break standard procedure when the situation isn't a standard one ie. every fucking shift once antags and events start kicking off, NOOOO HOW DARE YOU TAKE THE CAPTAIN'S SPARE TO EJECT THE DELAMINATING SUPERMATTER SOP SAYS THE CE SHOULD DO IT

FUCK.

anyway as I was saying these kinds of rigid "how you should roleplay and if you play your character otherwise you're wrong" documents are bad enough on HRP when they're treated as literally anything more than a suggestion and have a horrible tendency to become super fucking bloated super fucking fast

[Tlaltecuhtli]

the solution as stated in op is to move the prison to bar so prisoners can bar rp with security after being arrested

[cacogen]

A bar overlooking the prison, a baropticon if you will, is not a bad idea at all

[Lacran]

Brig bar is a fucking based idea, bartender and warden merge roles.

[Screemonster]

Brig bar is a fucking based idea, bartender and warden merge roles.

give the permabrig a bar sign that says "hotel california"

[Coconutwarrior97]

This is not something we're interested in. We'd prefer security simply follow rule 6 of the MRP rules and treat antagonists in proportion to their crimes.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: No thanks.
Domitius: No thanks.
Naloac: No thanks.