[Exavere] Legoscape - Permaban for a push?

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 2:28 am #601176

BYOND account: Legoscape
Character name: Jessica Sulivard
Ban type: Server Ban
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from the server permanently - Round ID#163048 -//- Pushed the CMO outside of the Emergency Shuttle while they were scuffling with Marcos over a Heal Rod. Lied to Danny in Ahelps, I double-checked the logs to verify proper investigation and found that they had indeed, shoved them outside of the Shuttle. PM'd to see if they'd own up to the truth, they did not - lied again. -- Appeal it on the Forums gamer, I am very disappointed.
Time ban was placed: 5/27/2021
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed: 163048
Your side of the story: The CMO was attempting to remove the player, Marcos from both the shuttle when it was docked and after it undocked. He continued to do this until I stepped in and saved Marcos. I was shoving the CMO away from Marcos because he kept trying to throw Marcos off the shuttle. I had no idea why he was doing this. I just assumed he was a griefer like everyone else attempting to shove people out of the escape shuttle.
Why you think you should be unbanned?: I normally die on the hills I stand on but not today, I reviewed the logs. looking at the incidents that had occurred I have realized I did in fact push the gamemaster MortoSasye ( The Chief Medical officer) out of the airlock and I must wholeheartedly apologize to the admins whom I lied to and for my false reflection of what occurred. I always get a large amount of adrenalin during space station 13 combat and everything merged together in this incident. I had not lied when I said I had no intention of pushing the CMO out of the airlock however my actions were entirely different and I apologize.

A large issue with the legoscape personality is I always believe i'm in the right about well...Everything. When I was a wee lad I'd always have this issue and I always talked out of my ass like I knew I was talking about. Taking a step back and being more of a humble individual about being wrong is always important and I am still attempting to fix the dumbassery that originally had me banned in most of ss13 community.

References of good conduct: No Notes, No Bans, No Problems for 3 years. Imagoodboynow.
Anything else we should know?: I have not had many interactions with a majority of the gamemasters of /tg/ with the exception of a few awesome lads; Shaps, Okand, and Ambassadormagikarp. However, I'm highly disappointed in the gamemaster who played as the Chief Medical Officer (MortoSasye) Who was legitimately attempting to grief a player for taking an object he had dropped on the floor. Yes, this object had some value it was the Rod of Asclepius and to the CMO this is a valuable tool that he at the time not using. Why MortoSasye continued to attempt to remove him off the shuttle until I put an end to that is beyond me.

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 2:33 am #601177

All involving parties did not have antagonist or were killed during this encounter.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 2:53 am #601178

Full Ban Reason, punctuation is important - I will handle this tomorrow when I have free time.

Banned from the server permanently - Round ID#163048 -//- Pushed the CMO outside of the Emergency Shuttle while they were scuffling with Marcos over a Heal Rod. Lied to Danny in Ahelps, I double checked the logs to verify proper investigation and found that they had indeed, shoved them outside of the Shuttle. PM'd to see if they'd own up to the truth, they did not - lied again. -- Appeal it on the Forums gamer, I am very dissapointed.

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 3:01 am #601179

It's not possible to copy-paste the ban reason in byond.

I stole your ban reason text.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 5:30 pm #601219

Alrighty, where to start. Guess we'll go with what happened, reply to your side and then the ban itself.

The CMO and Marcos were scuffling over a rod, CMO attempted to get the Rod from them while on the Shuttle. They managed to get the Rod, started the oath and got interrupted. Marcos got the Rod back and threw it off the shuttle while the CMO was attempting to get it from them. You intervened and ended up shoving them which lead to them getting spaced even though given your want of having the Rod you should've been helping the CMO.

Spoiler:

A big problem with the logs of the game they do not show movement logs of where people were at specific times. The shoves I had done were not to push him out of the shuttle they were to push the CMO away from Marcos. I had no intention of launching the CMO out of the shuttle. He was in a spacesuit and was shoved already. He stopped making any attempt to move away from the airlock after I shoved him a few times and the air pulled him out. I had not made that final shove that removed him from the airlock. However, If I did It would not have mattered either way. CMO was the aggressor attempting to be a dick and remove someone else from escaping on the shuttle. Spacing the CMO would have been a justified action because he continued to be the aggressor before he stopped moving.

Given the nature of the logs I've shown I don't believe this story of events to be the case at all, I can tell you were the reason they were spaced due to you being 1 tile to their right and giving them another shove which means they go left, airlocks are located on the left of the Shuttle. Because of this I now suspect bad faith, and lying. You also switching back and forth between them getting sucked out, shoved towards an airlock, blaming them for their positioning while dealing with Marcos and you at the same time, you shoving them multiple times, saying they walked out but were sucked out, and then saying even if you did shove them out it wouldn't matter anyway in your side of the story makes me believe you even less. There are way too many inconsistencies to take your word.

No notes, Tempbans, Bans Anywhere for 3 years.

Not true, you were given a note for consistent behavior 10 months ago - though I will not hold you to something so long ago, including your Yog grief bans. Just don't claim it's been 3 years, unless you want me to pull up notes from 3 years ago - which I will not in this case since I deem that to be unfair and a bit of a cheap shot for an over exaggeration.

The two admins dealing with this situation even after a poor investigation were not upfront with any information. Exavere questioned my honesty and integrity And found my answer distasteful where I believe he banned me. This situation was handled very poorly by the admins that dealt with it. To my knowledge, The aggressor, The CMO. Was never reprimanded for his actions, The actions ended up with the middle man (Me) being unjustly banned. I know this because the round after he was bitching in ooc about Danny's response. There was a total lack of information from the admins asking what had happened. I can only assume why they were fighting after the fact and that is because the cmo dropped the Rod of Asclepius on the ground.

I was dealing with several things while at the same time monitoring Danny's first ticket. The ahelp was made at Round End with little time left and Danny was in need of getting to work on practicing with tickets. I made some oversights myself at the time, but I would check them again later for confirmation for Danny's training notes. It's when I noticed you were lying in the Ahelps, and I went to investigate the whole thing further.

Even in the Ticket where you were being questioned about it you admitted to have little to no idea why the CMO and Marcos were even going at it, even though they were in the middle of it while you said you wanted the Rod from previous logs. We did not fault you for not truly knowing what was going on at the time, things are chaotic at times on the EShuttle - so we gave give you the benefit of the doubt. I feel this goes to show as a great example why you shouldn't get involved unless you're aware of what's happening, or at the very least ready to tank the consequences of your decisions. Now though, after reviewing the logs for a while, I believe you were lying in ahelps and continued to lie to me in the following round. I assume bad fatih and went through with action as such.

So yes, I questioned your integrity and placed a Perma. Unfortunately whenever someone lies in Ahelps I decide I should drag it to the forums, to go through everything more and consider whether or not keeping them around is a good idea. It brings it to a place where I, and even The Team at times, will consider their history and determine whether or not it's worth keeping them around if they're lying in an ahelp. Because at that point it brings to question how many other times someone has gotten away with things they shouldn't have, and how that affected people in any administrative actions. If I determine someone is lying then I will personally see to not letting them get away with it, I treat it as if they have zero defense for themselves and bad faith because I cannot take their word anymore.

As for the last part, this ban was more of a Mix of Rule 0, Rule 1 and mostly Rule 6. I don't think it was unjust at all.

If anything it asks, why should I let you play again and force the entire Playerbase to deal with dishonesty which can get Players in more trouble and put Admins in a bad spotlight when they miss important information in regards to dishonesty?

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 5:32 pm #601220

Oh yikes I just fixed my post after looking at the logs.

Sorry for the additional work.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 5:36 pm #601222

I've re-read your appeal adjustment, I still would like my question answered at the end of my last response.

In the mean time I will think it over and get thoughts from the entire team.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Fri May 28, 2021 5:50 pm #601228

For context: I was not grieffing the guy. I tried to get the rod to heal the people dying quickly in the medbay part of the shuttle after a mime welderbombed us.

I even told the guy it was such the case.

When he stole it back, to throw it back on the station, at the same moment the shuttle left, I got mad and thought they must have been an antag to have done such a dick move. I proceeded to stun them and drag them towards the brig so he could be arrested, only to get shoved out of the shuttle with him by you.

edit: just got told that he actually survived the shove match thankfully

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 5:59 pm #601229

Exavere wrote:I've re-read your appeal adjustment, I still would like my question answered at the end of my last response.

In the mean time I will think it over and get thoughts from the entire team.

"If anything it asks, why should I let you play again and force the entire Playerbase to deal with dishonesty which can get Players in more trouble and put Admins in a bad spotlight when they miss important information in regards to dishonesty?"

In regards to your last question, The player base and admins deal with terrible players and dishonesty every day. Yet how many terrible players are willing enough to actually admit when they are wrong? When they have done something as grievous as me? To take a step back to apologize and explain why they were in the wrong? I've been using space station 13 for many years to fix my attitude and to listen to what people tell me. Hell, I've been doing right for the past 3 years with a clean slate ((don't mention the few bumps I had as an AI)). Taking me away from my home server won't do me any good. And if I can continue to go further humbling myself like these occasions I think you could do me good too.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 6:01 pm #601230

Close, but not quite. He didn't get spaced with you, he got searched by the Head of Security afterwards.

legoscape · Post by **legoscape** » Fri May 28, 2021 6:02 pm #601231

MortoSasye wrote:For context: I was not grieffing the guy. I tried to get the rod to heal the people dying quickly in the medbay part of the shuttle after a mime welderbombed us.

I even told the guy it was such the case.

When he stole it back, to throw it back on the station, at the same moment the shuttle left, I got mad and thought they must have been an antag to have done such a dick move. I proceeded to stun them and drag them towards the brig so he could be arrested, only to get shoved out of the shuttle with him by you.

I apologize for this incident. the low RP servers are filled with people who would rather deal with their own issues rather than letting security do the job. In my eyes it looked like you were trying to push him out so I inturned did the same. I am still disappointed with the total lack of information that got me into this mess, to begin with.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 6:18 pm #601233

The lack of information is part of it, we don't ask you "Hey, why did you push the CMO, who ended up spaced from it while attempting to get a Healing Rod from Marcos who threw it off the Shuttle like an idiot - all because a Mime heretic welder bombed them earlier".

Because you couldn't of known. We don't tell you all the information of things you couldn't know because you can change your story to best fit around it. That's why we ask you for what happened between you and another individual from your side of the story, and then match what you said with what happened. If there are discrepancies, things that don't add up, we can see them. The inconsistent story, during my Review, like I said is what made me drag it all here to the Forums.

One moment while I think it over.

Exavere · Post by **Exavere** » Fri May 28, 2021 7:09 pm #601237

Alright, I thought it over, looked at your history, bans, notes, chatted with other admins and all that jazz.

In regards to Morto/The CMO, I don't appreciate you saying they should do better and that you were disappointed in them because it makes it look like you're not willing to accept full responsibility, I brought you here indeed to question your integrity and I didn't fail to notice the edits to your side of the story. After a bit you owned up to doing a dumb, though while trying to deflect on Morto a bit - which you apologized for after they gave you their side of the story so +1 for that.

You have no horrid history in the last year+ bad enough to warrant any severe bannings outside of this. You also, eventually, admitted to screwing up fixing your integrity by editing in there that you did screw up without me having to call you out majorly for it. I am not out to nail anyone to the Cross over small matters, but when it comes to stuff like this I admit I will go out of my way to make sure that if any problem is there or brewing I will put it out ASAP.

All in all, you fucked up. You didn't admit to it at first, but you finally admitted to it and apologized several times without me having to call you out on it.

In regards to your last question, The player base and admins deal with terrible players and dishonesty every day. Yet how many terrible players are willing enough to actually admit when they are wrong? When they have done something as grievous as me? To take a step back to apologize and explain why they were in the wrong? I've been using space station 13 for many years to fix my attitude and to listen to what people tell me. Hell, I've been doing right for the past 3 years with a clean slate ((don't mention the few bumps I had as an AI)). Taking me away from my home server won't do me any good. And if I can continue to go further humbling myself like these occasions I think you could do me good too.

Yes, very few players will ever admit to fucking up. But I am not so naïve to think you're stupid enough to keep pretending to be in the right when the logs paint a very different light, so I all I ask is you to follow up on your word and when you're in doubt just admit you don't remember or even better with incidents like this - just acknowledge you fucked up right away. Don't ever say you didn't do it when you don't know, or especially if you did, because if the logs say otherwise it's gonna be a big mess and stuff like this ends up happening because malicious intent gets suspected. It's way better to just eat the note, or hell you may even not get noted because you just admitted to it right off the bat - which is the real thing that most players fail to do. They generally will only admit to a screw up when it's plain for everyone to see.

Had the CMO not been wearing a suit it would've been a day ban at least for their death, but do try to avoid pushing people outside of the shuttle without really knowing what you're doing in the future unless you're ready to tank the hits if your decision was wrong.

With that in mind, I am lifting the Perma-Ban and you can get back to your spess game gamer, thanks for not dragging this out way longer then it had to be. I hope you take my words into consideration, they will help you further down the line.

/tg/Station 13

[Exavere] Legoscape - Permaban for a push?

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