Block Chance Rework - The Block Budget

[Redrover1760]

RNG in block chance is simply not fun to both play with and play against. Both sides are forced to hope that they get lucky and hit the lucky rng to get a good placed shove through 75% block chance or funny baton hit to instantly win.

Therefore, my idea is for blocks (considering a desword in this instance) to be able to

Block 1 melee attack from 3(maybe more?) different people every 1 second.
Ranged Blocks stay where they are, as generally ranged combat does not result in instant death from failing to block something (outside of bolas, maybe? but those have their own counters. Bolas have always been incredibly strong weapons against deswords and block chance weapons, by virtue of letting you get in a huge amount of hits for free by putting yourself in full control of the engagement. Make sure to buy a freedom implant, if bolas really fuck you over, I guess. Either that or Bolas as a thrown item gets factored into the block melee attacks thing, like all other thrown items? I don't know how desword blocks thrown items and bolas like that.)

Now its crucial to note that since the attack cooldown is like .8 seconds, one can hit once, and then perfectly hit again to get an attack through, However, this relies on your opponent standing still. Deswords have always been at their funnest when they are dodging and weaving machines of death, and thus, this perfectly incentives this playstyle.

Blocking from 3+ different people is required due to the nature of being able to cheese blocks per second by simply one person shoving and the other baton, if it was, for instance, 1 block per second. It would be incredibly weaker than current desword if it was unable to handle a crowd at all, but OP if it could simply block 3 attacks per second, as it forces the Desword to easily win in 1v1s against pretty much anything.

The only other thing I could think of is that this adds something like the rapid attack speed miner saw to a potential counter, but since it doesn't do baton damage/effects (its like 15 damage instead or something), you can still dodge it, its combo is really hard to pull off without the target standing still, and it fits that a barrage of attacks of extreme speed would overwhelm someone trying to block them.

Now lets theorize other block percents and how they convert.

I was thinking of only having 75% block chances (and up?) have the ability to mass block from huge numbers of people, for instance. I don't see why cult knives should be given that ability personally.

50% Block chance would be something like:

Block 1 melee attack from 2 different people every 2 seconds.

This can make it a clutch tool against a single baton surprise attack, but not enough to be able to do much against a second baton unless you are quite good at dodging. Either way, if you successfully pace yourself and dodge, or control the engagement so that you can bola/etc to slow them down, you can theoretically win against a baton, but its all skill at that point. Not to mention sec always has stuff like ranged weapons to really help with this sorta thing. Of course, if you are getting mobbed by 3+ people, you are going to run out of block budget pretty quickly.

30% Block Chance might be something like: (Chaplain weapons I think)

Block 1 melee attack from 2 people every 4 seconds.

25% Block chance might be something like:

Block 1 melee attack from 1 person every 4 seconds.

25%-30% block chance stuff have never been really strong for its blocking capability, honestly. At most, it is a supplementary item to a real block or damage item (or has some decent damage) that could potentially get you out of a nasty ambush if you are lucky.

This does make having block-capable weapons a pretty strong anti-ambush tool, however the only person who actually gets one roundstart is the Captain with his saber, since riot shields work off of blocking chest melee hits only (although they could get converted into block weapons, maybe. I don't know much about how much riot shields actually do end up blocking to say), and you can easily try to play around block weapons in an ambush scenario, a simply shove should disable any 50% block chance weapon for a good 2 seconds without totally escalating a combat (which is probably still better than hoping on rng before), or getting your opponent to drop or put away the block weapon (for instance, slipping them works perfectly to do this), or perhaps starting off with a bola/etc to prevent your opponent from maneuvering to regain their block budget. (If thrown items get lumped into melee attacks like they probably will, considering how they work, throwing a tile at someone who always has a block item out also works as well.)

[NecromancerAnne]

Fuck RNG, the best solution (that I was gonna do eventually but other stuff like LIFE has taken priority) is just ditching all this rng shit and using the Shielded component utilizing the various charge mechanics it has. It's really versatile and simply better functionally. We do not need a multi-faceted block system, just a straight forward 'you can block this many hits before it needs to recharge'.

We have this already, basically, it's just a bit of work to get fully functionaly, like with stuff like deswords.

[Redrover1760]

Fuck RNG, the best solution (that I was gonna do eventually but other stuff like LIFE has taken priority) is just ditching all this rng shit and using the Shielded component utilizing the various charge mechanics it has. It's really versatile and simply better functionally. We do not need a multi-faceted block system, just a straight forward 'you can block this many hits before it needs to recharge'.

We have this already, basically, it's just a bit of work to get fully functionaly, like with stuff like deswords.

I disagree. Doing a simple shielded setup turns the desword into a more 1v1 weapon or attack and retreat weapon than what it is currently. As in making it an incredibly strong 1v1 weapon. I don't feel like the desword is best as a 1v1 weapon, but rather something you can jedi a crowd to death with as well with skill.

[blackdav123]

I think RNG block chance is important to keep because it is unreliable. If we had shielded on everything then it would not take long before everyone with a desword is beheading everyone in the room and running once they get to three hits. With RNG block chance you need to play safe enough that the block is only there to pick up on your mistakes. Have you ever tried to kill someone wearing reactive teleport armor? It is hard enough to land the first hit and you usually wont have a chance for a second.

[Itseasytosee2me]

I like RNG

[sinfulbliss]

I like RNG better too. Recharging block chance was suggested before but I don't think it's a good idea for a few reasons:

1) High blockchance items like desword would be both unbeatable in 1v1s and much weaker in 2v1/3v1/4v1s etc. If you get attacked by more than a single person, your blockchance will run out quickly and it'll just become a slightly stronger esword. Especially since blockchance applies to ranged weapons, it'll make it essentially nonexistent. For 1v1s, you will be impossible to click since it'll be as simple as retreating for a few seconds if they get the first click, and then attacking again.

2) Low blockchance items will be absolutely broken. A guaranteed block from shit like riot shields and even eswords would be an insanely powerful buff, allowing you a free hit to win pretty much every melee fight against a player without an item with block.

[NoxVS]

Both sides are forced to hope that they get lucky and hit the lucky rng to get a good placed shove through 75% block chance or funny baton hit to instantly win.

I feel like this is a much bigger problem and block just kicks the problem further down the road

[bastardblaster]

RNG is funny and I don't want to see it gone

[NecromancerAnne]

If you all like RNG literally nothing need change. But there is nothing interactive or skill expressive about RNG, so it is ripe for replacement. Currently, block just happens, and you either succeed or eat shit with little input from your end. The smartest approach to block is to not use it as a significant defense, which means you can pretty easily go without and see almost no difference.

[Shadowflame909]

imagine if like riot shields bucklers and plastic chairs had a guaranteed block chance, but the items would break and potentially damage you. (The stray shrapnel causing embedded bleed damage)

[blackdav123]

If you all like RNG literally nothing need change. But there is nothing interactive or skill expressive about RNG, so it is ripe for replacement. Currently, block just happens, and you either succeed or eat shit with little input from your end. The smartest approach to block is to not use it as a significant defense, which means you can pretty easily go without and see almost no difference.

The RNG isnt meant to be something to rely on, but it brings an aspect of randomness similar to tabletop RPGs like DND. Sometimes you can make a dumb move and succeed because you blocked everything, and sometimes it fails you the one time you needed it. It helps to create stories where underdogs can succeed and cocky players can fail.

[Pandarsenic]

Bring back 100% ranged block chance and instant stun tasers

[Redrover1760]

If you all like RNG literally nothing need change. But there is nothing interactive or skill expressive about RNG, so it is ripe for replacement. Currently, block just happens, and you either succeed or eat shit with little input from your end. The smartest approach to block is to not use it as a significant defense, which means you can pretty easily go without and see almost no difference.

The RNG isnt meant to be something to rely on, but it brings an aspect of randomness similar to tabletop RPGs like DND. Sometimes you can make a dumb move and succeed because you blocked everything, and sometimes it fails you the one time you needed it. It helps to create stories where underdogs can succeed and cocky players can fail.

Good point.