Stunlock complaining thread

[HeyHey]

Perhaps this is the wrong section but since we discussed access changes there i'll put my stunlock complaint here.

Full disclaimer I am unrobust and have a long record of being BTFO by security officers who had a stun baton.

Stunlocking is a poor mechanic that devolves combat into a "who stuns first" contest. It doesn't matter if you have full body armor versus an unarmored opponent as long as they steal a stun-baton from sec you've got zero chance of winning once they get close to you. Other games such as world of warcraft have solved this issue decades ago by reducing the duration of each subsequent stun. It is my unrobust opinion that TG implements this or a stun-immunity after being stunned X number of times. This would for example force security to use handcuffs if they want to keep a criminal detained for more than 15 seconds and give tiders antagonists something to do to try and break out of the stun instead of accepting death.

[Itseasytosee2me]

This is probably better placed in the coding feedback subform

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Or, you could take countermeasures against stuns. Nerve splicing surgery, ephedrine (maybe get yourself a dental implant of an ephedrine pill?), or, you know, just not doing illegal things that will make security want to stun you in the first place.

I don't see why it would make any sense for base/default characters to have increased stun resistance without taking any measures to mitigate them.

[HeyHey]

Or, you could take countermeasures against stuns. Nerve splicing surgery, ephedrine (maybe get yourself a dental implant of an ephedrine pill?), or, you know, just not doing illegal things that will make security want to stun you in the first place.

I don't see why it would make any sense for base/default characters to have increased stun resistance without taking any measures to mitigate them.

Security already have access to Bolas, Disablers, Cuffs, Flashes, PepperSpray and Riot gear why do they need to be able to stunlock someone down for what 3-5 minutes on one baton charge?

[RaveRadbury]

Moving this to coding feedback

[Mothblocks]

Or, you could take countermeasures against stuns. Nerve splicing surgery, ephedrine (maybe get yourself a dental implant of an ephedrine pill?), or, you know, just not doing illegal things that will make security want to stun you in the first place.

I don't see why it would make any sense for base/default characters to have increased stun resistance without taking any measures to mitigate them.

Security already have access to Bolas, Disablers, Cuffs, Flashes, PepperSpray and Riot gear why do they need to be able to stunlock someone down for what 3-5 minutes on one baton charge?

Security already have access to Bolas, Disablers, Cuffs, Flashes, PepperSpray and Riot gear, so why is stun locking (which takes up power as a resource, and requires your CONSTANT attention) any different?

[HeyHey]

Or, you could take countermeasures against stuns. Nerve splicing surgery, ephedrine (maybe get yourself a dental implant of an ephedrine pill?), or, you know, just not doing illegal things that will make security want to stun you in the first place.

I don't see why it would make any sense for base/default characters to have increased stun resistance without taking any measures to mitigate them.

Security already have access to Bolas, Disablers, Cuffs, Flashes, PepperSpray and Riot gear why do they need to be able to stunlock someone down for what 3-5 minutes on one baton charge?

Security already have access to Bolas, Disablers, Cuffs, Flashes, PepperSpray and Riot gear, so why is stun locking (which takes up power as a resource, and requires your CONSTANT attention) any different?

Bolas - Have to carry one Bola per use and you can actively fight back while leg-cuffed
Disabler - Limited ammunition AND you need to deliver multiple hits before the target is incapable of doing anything
Cuffs - can ONLY be applied when the target is stationary
Flashes - can be hard countered with relatively common items OR just by turning away AND you can still move while blinded
Pepper Spray - just like flashes easy to counter and require facing the spray AND you can move while blinded
Riot Gear - slows down the person wearing it
Stun Batons - no easy counter item, works as long as you're in melee range 100% of the time, once you're stunned you are incapable of doing anything for several seconds AND can be stunned again before you have a chance to run/fight back.


The power as a resource is minimal because you can lock someone down much longer with a baton than a disabler/flash. Creating a time limit for how long the stun baton can keep someone stunned would force the officer to use another tool (with different counters) instead of the baton.

[Mothblocks]

The counter is having a second person just grab you and run away, I see it all the time

Sorry but I think 1vX combat is way too over discussed with regards to stun batons and stun combat, having a second person on your side brings the power level of stun batons dramatically down and is also just really fun. I understand most antagonists aren't really going to have companions, but that's my thoughts

[HeyHey]

The counter is having a second person just grab you and run away, I see it all the time

Sorry but I think 1vX combat is way too over discussed with regards to stun batons and stun combat, having a second person on your side brings the power level of stun batons dramatically down and is also just really fun. I understand most antagonists aren't really going to have companions, but that's my thoughts

I see what you mean but it's very one sided for solo antagonists IE heretic, traitor, lone op. If there was a limit to how much one person could be stunned repeatedly it would not really effect group dynamics but would makes things like armor & health more relevant for 1v1 instead of being a race to stun first.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Stun batons will not be cool until we readd stamina Regen over time and start making stamina an element in all combat.

[Redrover1760]

The counter is having a second person just grab you and run away, I see it all the time

Sorry but I think 1vX combat is way too over discussed with regards to stun batons and stun combat, having a second person on your side brings the power level of stun batons dramatically down and is also just really fun. I understand most antagonists aren't really going to have companions, but that's my thoughts

I see what you mean but it's very one sided for solo antagonists IE heretic, traitor, lone op. If there was a limit to how much one person could be stunned repeatedly it would not really effect group dynamics but would makes things like armor & health more relevant for 1v1 instead of being a race to stun first.

The issue more is that solo antags do need some anti-stun stuff. Or anything to help them survive being ganged up on by batons or something. Haha.

[Redrover1760]

The counter is having a second person just grab you and run away, I see it all the time

Sorry but I think 1vX combat is way too over discussed with regards to stun batons and stun combat, having a second person on your side brings the power level of stun batons dramatically down and is also just really fun. I understand most antagonists aren't really going to have companions, but that's my thoughts

I see what you mean but it's very one sided for solo antagonists IE heretic, traitor, lone op. If there was a limit to how much one person could be stunned repeatedly it would not really effect group dynamics but would makes things like armor & health more relevant for 1v1 instead of being a race to stun first.

The issue more is that solo antags do need some anti-stun stuff. Or anything to help them survive being ganged up on by batons or something. Haha.

[oranges]

i'm not sure another thread on stunlocks adds anything to the 11 year discourse that has been playing out.

I know it's bad and sucky to get stunlocked

I also know it's going to be bad and sucky to remove the remaining ways of nonlethally detaining crew easily.

[Itseasytosee2me]

i'm not sure another thread on stunlocks adds anything to the 11 year discourse that has been playing out.

I know it's bad and sucky to get stunlocked

I also know it's going to be bad and sucky to remove the remaining ways of nonlethally detaining crew easily.

Bring back grab meta?

[Shadowflame909]

What if instead of stun lock there was limb lock

Sec gets limb disabling sticks that instantly stam crit a limb. Also laser guns can now shoot off limbs like swiss cheese

[HeyHey]

i'm not sure another thread on stunlocks adds anything to the 11 year discourse that has been playing out.

I know it's bad and sucky to get stunlocked

I also know it's going to be bad and sucky to remove the remaining ways of nonlethally detaining crew easily.

It's easy to cuff someone after stunning them 2-3 times in a row what's the added gain of being able to do it indefinitely

The only solo antag that has a really balanced anti-stun mechanic is Changeling unlimited stun breaks for 1 point.
Traitor/Lone op has to spend 5 tc for a limited duration anti stun pen.
Heretic gets shit. Unless they break a blade the second they're stunned its GG.

[Pandarsenic]

What if instead of stun lock there was limb lock

Sec gets limb disabling sticks that instantly stam crit a limb. Also laser guns can now shoot off limbs like swiss cheese

I'm 90% sure advanced Plasma Cutters are actually the most effective weapon against nukies already

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

The only solo antag that has a really balanced anti-stun mechanic is Changeling unlimited stun breaks for 1 point.

You have a REALLY weird definition of balanced. Based on this sentence alone I feel like you're asking just to win against stuns, not to have it be actually balanced.

[HeyHey]

The only solo antag that has a really balanced anti-stun mechanic is Changeling unlimited stun breaks for 1 point.

You have a REALLY weird definition of balanced. Based on this sentence alone I feel like you're asking just to win against stuns, not to have it be actually balanced.

I don't see how that's a weird definition of balance lings get for a cost a reusable stun breaker. There is no need for a "win" against stuns. There should just be LESS of a guaranteed win for the person with the baton.

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

The only solo antag that has a really balanced anti-stun mechanic is Changeling unlimited stun breaks for 1 point.

You have a REALLY weird definition of balanced. Based on this sentence alone I feel like you're asking just to win against stuns, not to have it be actually balanced.

I don't see how that's a weird definition of balance lings get for a cost a reusable stun breaker. There is no need for a "win" against stuns. There should just be LESS of a guaranteed win for the person with the baton.

I want to live in whatever reality you live in where security autowins engagements just because they have stun batons, because it sounds like a reality where security players actually fucking exist, which isn't the case on Sybil, which is where I play.

But sure, go ahead, keep asking for nerfs to the department that already has zero players.

[HeyHey]

The only solo antag that has a really balanced anti-stun mechanic is Changeling unlimited stun breaks for 1 point.

You have a REALLY weird definition of balanced. Based on this sentence alone I feel like you're asking just to win against stuns, not to have it be actually balanced.

I don't see how that's a weird definition of balance lings get for a cost a reusable stun breaker. There is no need for a "win" against stuns. There should just be LESS of a guaranteed win for the person with the baton.

I want to live in whatever reality you live in where security autowins engagements just because they have stun batons, because it sounds like a reality where security players actually fucking exist, which isn't the case on Sybil, which is where I play.

But sure, go ahead, keep asking for nerfs to the department that already has zero players.

Bruh I'm a sybil sec main. This won't "ruin" sec just because they can't keep batoning someone for 5 minutes. IF that's the only thing motivating people to play security then frankly they need to pick a new role.

[Shadowflame909]

head of staff batons are worse

an infinite baton that has a "less long stun" which doesnt matter because they can re-apply the stick till the sun explodes

[HeyHey]

I'd actually prefer if security had those instead. The stun time on them on so short that you have to really focus on stun locking or the person can get away.

[Agux909]

You're crazy.

[Shadowflame909]

Another Option: Remove stun batons. Allow disablers/Lasers to get a high-powered hit-scan mode that run out of charge after doing 60 damage/60 stamina. Thus allowing you to get your auto-aim off with another security guard near you easily. But you'd need to use the regular disabler/laser mode if you enter a gun fight by yourself.