PlazaStation development thread - REDESIGN POLL

Mapping Ideas and Sprite Galleries

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Which design do you like best? (See post below)

Design 1
3
27%
Design 2
3
27%
Design 3
5
45%
I don't like any of them
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 11

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PlazaStation development thread - REDESIGN POLL

Postby Reimoo » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:47 pm #84563

The basic idea behind this is that the station features a central plaza that connects everything, and allows the crew a nice open area to build gimmicks/host events for the entire station to enjoy.
_____________________

I canned the entire old design I had cause frankly I wasn't satisfied with it, so I decided to start from scratch. But I kinda overthought a bit and created three new layouts instead of just one. Below are some ugly sketches with vague descriptions of them that are just a general springboard so I can flesh them out later, I was just too indecisive on which one I liked best, hence the poll. Keep in mind they're not to scale.

Design 1- all departments besides security have an entrance directly to the plaza
Spoiler:
new design 1.jpg

Design 2- 3 long hallways with smaller hallways branching off them, also features an unusually large maintenance
Spoiler:
new design 2.jpg

Design 3- Plaza is surrounded by windows to make the the station feel more spacey, most likely the largest of the 3
Spoiler:
new design 3.jpg
Last edited by Reimoo on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:35 am, edited 32 times in total.



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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Shaps-cloud » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:18 pm #84577

I'd probably put command and the AI core in either a more secluded location to prevent cargo techs and assistants from breaking in via cargo bay and maint, or put those areas in a very central location where anyone trying to break in will probably end up being spotted and give sec a chance to respond. Having the captain's office flanked by cargo bay and maint is just begging for breakins.

Other than that, I like the idea of medbay being so close to escape, that would make it way easier to coordinate getting people who hobble to the shuttle on their last legs patched back up
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby lumipharon » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:31 pm #84580

Lookin how you've got it setup right now, beween the plaza an engineering will be a major deadzone, which is effectively like half the station.
On that note make service a different colour from the fluff/civilian job areas, since it's actually somewhat relevent.

I would swap arrivals area for something that creates more traffic, to make activity a bit more even.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Thunder11 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:35 pm #84583

What about swapping cargo and arrivals?
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Incoming » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:38 pm #84584

Putting sec right next to escape is gonna make escape alone that much harder
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:03 pm #84590

Shifted the north maint tunnel behind science, moved engineering north a bit, put library in a less important location, turned lockers into a pseudo hallway to merge south traffic together and added a little more detail. Also tried to make my bad handwritng more legible.

I wanted cargo to be near to science to allow mining to get materials there efficiently. Also, security is near escape so officers are actually more willing to tug along prisoners with them. And I think it's okay for engineering to be a little secluded considering a lot of the time it's a traitor's hideout anyway. I wedged the solars between sec and engineering for that purpose.
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Scones » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:01 am #84610

Interesting idea, curious to see what it'll look like mapped.

Plaza looks like it's just gonna become a weird deadzone though
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:07 am #84611

Yeah, I figured, but I'm going to try to make it more than just a big empty space. Think of it more like a hub.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby John_Oxford » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:19 am #84614

I don't know if its just me, but all the station modifications seem to just be swapping out the postion of the departments around one big + sign.

I have yet to see a station that is unique, and goes outside of the + set up. (Excluding AsteroidStation)
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Incoming » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:52 am #84617

A nice big plaza area to build wacky shit that people are forced to look at as they walk through the station does seem like a fun idea though.
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:59 am #84619

Yeah, exactly!

Often times people are forced to hunt for a place to build their gimmicks. Not saying that this is the sole purpose of this map, but it is one of the reasons I designed it this way.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:55 am #84646

I'm still rather fond of making the bar itself open up into the plaza, chairs and whatnot there (same as some restaurant have their tables outside in good weather). Mostly so that the bar becomes an area that actually experiences traffic.
(Also, because one of the few things about AssStation that everyone seems to like is that the open bar was awesome.)
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby allura » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:14 am #84650

John_Oxford wrote:I have yet to see a station that is unique, and goes outside of the + set up. (Excluding AsteroidStation)

every goon map
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also your map will be fucking great if you dont fuck something incredibly trivial up
KEEP AI IN SCIENCE, THIS IS COMING FROM A FELLOW MAPPER.
K E E P I T T H E R E

youre gonna get shit but it actually works incredibly well when put into the game.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:18 am #84651

Question of curiosity, why keep it in science and not minisat it?

Also, did not see disposals in the map, I assume above Cargo?
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:51 am #84656

Science has the greatest affinity with the silicons. I find it silly that the path to the core is in engineering on both box and meta.

Also, yeah, disposals will be in proximity to cargo. I'm not worrying about all the niche rooms at the moment because those can really be shoved anywhere.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:53 am #84658

On Meta it's in Engineering, I assume, because the Minisat holds both the AI and T-Comms, and T-Comms is an Engineering matter.
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby 420weedscopes » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:24 pm #84708

i thought it said lakers
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby allura » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:49 pm #84729

as demon said, ai is in engineering on meta for its tcomms. it's also in engineering on box because the ai sat on box was an idea taken from meta, and whoever took the idea just put ai there not knowing why it was in engineering on meta.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:10 pm #84999

Uploaded a brig design. Not so sure about the armory placement.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby onleavedontatme » Fri May 01, 2015 2:04 am #85041

Warden is nowhere near it would be my biggest issue with it.

Map concept itself is pretty cool

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Scones » Fri May 01, 2015 2:14 am #85043

Two thumbs up on that Brig layout, I love that you can't see the cells from the outside
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby allura » Fri May 01, 2015 11:03 pm #85213

the brig is godawful, don't kill your good idea with bad departmental designs

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Sat May 02, 2015 1:16 am #85237

Could you elaborate please?

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Scones » Sat May 02, 2015 5:17 am #85254

Reimoo wrote:Could you elaborate please?


it's allura lol

Do you have IRC? I'd rather talk about this real quick than write a long list of pros and cons
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Sat May 02, 2015 6:14 am #85255

Yeah, I can peek my head in IRC whenever.

I made another design though anyway. :?
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby lumipharon » Sat May 02, 2015 6:29 am #85258

Edit: You posted the new design as I wrote that, honk.

While the brig design is interesting, and I like it aesthetically, it's not very practical, and will make it much less pleasant for sec to use.

The warden typically needs to be able to view 4 things.
The brig cells
The armory
The entrance to the brig
The entrance to perma

They need to be able to view them all from their desk, so they can also operate their consoles.
With your design that'd have to be crossing their office to be able to see these things, which means shit can slip by quite easily.

The brig cells have r-walls around them - that's very hard to get out of (or in). It really is better with box's windows and shutters, which allow makeshift access/escape possible, but still lets sec lock shit down when needed.

The armory is sort of stuffed in the corner, and it can be broken into literally without anyone knowing.
It's out of visual AND auditory range of the warden (so someone could just c4 through the wall and they wouldn't know .
And with the positioning of the interrogation room it's entirely possible for someone to emag in the west doors, break everyone out of perma and rob the armory, literally without the warden seeing.

You've also combined the gear room with the meeting room, so it's a bit tight on space.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Scones » Sat May 02, 2015 7:00 am #85262

Hop in #coderbus or something this evening and tomorrow afternoon

Main concerns with new design:
- Armory does not actually border space (in the sense of the exterior of the station), and the Warden's view of it's actual contents is sort of fishy
- Front desk is a little too much glass, has no door/walls separating it from the rest of Brig
- Huge amount of space, managed sort of poorly: See the meeting room, with 2 double airlocks to enter what is literally just a meeting room
- Lack of lockers. Do NOT make the mistakes that were made with Eff3 sec if this map is intended for Sybil populations, or even 'decent' populations. 4 lockers ain't cuttin' it.
- Perma solitary cells are sort of way bigger than they need to be

Good shit from both desgins:
- Fuck external cell windows, you shouldn't be able to see the outside
- First model's Armory blast doors are a fantastic idea (Baysec inspired?)
- Warden observes the cells, armory, and a sort of inverted L. I dunno, I really like the shape

(Steal baysec locker room)
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby allura » Sat May 02, 2015 10:04 pm #85382

Scones wrote:Main concerns with new design:
- Armory does not actually border space (in the sense of the exterior of the station), and the Warden's view of it's actual contents is sort of fishy
- Front desk is a little too much glass, has no door/walls separating it from the rest of Brig
- Huge amount of space, managed sort of poorly: See the meeting room, with 2 double airlocks to enter what is literally just a meeting room
- Lack of lockers. Do NOT make the mistakes that were made with Eff3 sec if this map is intended for Sybil populations, or even 'decent' populations. 4 lockers ain't cuttin' it.
- Perma solitary cells are sort of way bigger than they need to be

Good shit from both desgins:
- Fuck external cell windows, you shouldn't be able to see the outside
- First model's Armory blast doors are a fantastic idea (Baysec inspired?)
- Warden observes the cells, armory, and a sort of inverted L. I dunno, I really like the shape


for the most part, reimoo, don't fuck with this post

-armory doesn't need to border space, it only borders space because that's the epic meme place for ops to bomb. if it does't border space they have to bomb somewhere else, which encourages creativity.
-this one is ok
-this is ok
-eff 3 didn't make a mistake with lockers, there were only 3 in sec because there were an additional 4 around the station in depsec. if you plan to not have depsec lockers, then add more.
-who cares?

-you SHOULD be able to see outside, why the fuck wouldnt you be able to? people should be allowed to converse with the outside world if they want to, shit
-no they aren't
-the l shape is bad, warden needs a full view of his entire office

DON'T STEAL BAYSEC'S LOCKER ROOM. it's huge and wastes so much space, don't fuck with that locker room. it's retarded.

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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Scones » Sat May 02, 2015 11:04 pm #85393

I'd rather not have a big design debate with Allura about ~opinions~ but as someone who played a lot of Security (and a lot of Security on Eff3) I can give my thoughts on a couple things.

Departmental security lockers are terrible. I can't stress this enough. Literally all they ended up being was free caches for traitors to get Tasers/HUDs/Bowmans from, and this isn't something I think could be fixed with population unless you have Security Officers somehow spawning inside their assigned departments and gearing up there. Even then, Security having consolidated equipment (IMO) is important, especially considering how more often than not you're not going to have a full Security team, and as a result, unattended lockers. I have no ideas as to how Departmental Security could be made functional sans setting up the lockers to only spawn with an Officer assigned to that department.

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Also this was what I was talking about when I said locker room. Just this part.

Prisoners having direct outside window access was discussed in another thread and I think the consensus was that brig time feels very silly and trivial when you are in a glass time-out cell. When you are inside a walled cell with no outside vision, it feels entirely different. in fact, it feels like gasp you're actually serving time for a crime and not just waiting for the right moment to break the windows open. I like it and I'm curious to see how well it goes.

That's the feedback I can give you purely from a Security player standpoint so I'd be curious to see what Malkevin/Steelpoint have to say on it as well. It's probably best to not let this thread get 100% derailed over brig prototypes, though, so what else have you been working on? Any other departments?
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Sun May 03, 2015 12:25 am #85413

Thanks for the feedback guys. I really appreciate it.

I uploaded arrivals and service designs to the OP and here's a medbay design.
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Re: PlazaStation

Postby Reimoo » Sun May 03, 2015 3:11 am #85432

I completed enough to stitch the departments together. Now I can take screenshots of the entire thing! I put it up in the OP.

What do you guys think of the plaza? Too big, too small? Keep in mind that it will be filled with some decorations and it will not be completely empty like it is now.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby lumipharon » Sun May 03, 2015 9:29 am #85475

99% sure the cloning pod needs to be next to the console to function.

I would also open up cryo, by replacing the two east side windows with just open firelocks (like meta), and have the bit of wall below then a window. It will make it far less cramped.

Bit iffy on the tables by the sleepers, since they're going to chokepoint the entrance a bit.

Why is one chem station facing some little room by science/genetics? Science doesn't even need to ever go to chemistry if they're half competent, and it's still only a 15 seconds walk if they aren't.

Morgue mainly gets used by the geneticist, so it's location inside medstorage is a bit iffy.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Reimoo » Sun May 03, 2015 5:43 pm #85537

Okay, how's this?
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby lumipharon » Sun May 03, 2015 8:38 pm #85572

A lot more open now.

The morgue is a bit small/tight, but eh.

I like the idea of the back entrance thing to the medbay, but with the break room, make sure the chemist/viro etc can get there via medstorage - on meta they have access there, on box they don't.

It's looking good, although it's a shame there's no surgery observation. Watching novice doctors fuck up surgery as the CMO was always fun.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby DemonFiren » Sun May 03, 2015 8:50 pm #85573

Personally, still very much in favour of locking down all of Viro with r-walls, not just the side exposed to maint.
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Scones » Sun May 03, 2015 8:56 pm #85574

All of Virology and the Science perimeter should have reinforced walls. The same goes for everything in Brig but I'm guessing that was just an oversight in the prototype.
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Reimoo » Sun May 03, 2015 9:22 pm #85577

Yeah. The R-walls and such are details that can come later. Thanks for the feedback guys.

And now, behold! Brig attempt #3.

brig design 3.jpg

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Scones » Sun May 03, 2015 9:29 pm #85580

Is the Armory going to have shotgun ammo? Usually there is an unsecured locker in there for it, which looks fucking horrid (So if you're putting boxes on the racks instead that's great)
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby DemonFiren » Sun May 03, 2015 9:33 pm #85584

This design I rather like, especially with how the Detective's is connected directly to evidence.
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby lumipharon » Mon May 04, 2015 2:44 am #85631

I don't like that you have to go through the sec meeting room to get to perma or interrogation, but it looks pretty good other then that.

Would still prefer if the cells had windows outwards though but meh.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby RocKeD » Mon May 04, 2015 9:13 am #85659

I found something very minor that I might call your attention to. In the overall station progress picture right below arrivals the two doors should be airlocks, as those are shutters that go directly to space if I'm not mistaken.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Mon May 04, 2015 7:43 pm #85711

I say give the sec office in medbay rwindows into the hall, and the HOS office electrified rwindows with a shutter into the perma cell, so he has a little bit of LOS to the permabrig
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby lumipharon » Mon May 04, 2015 8:22 pm #85719

if there is a window to the hos office from perma, literally every single round where there is a prisoner, and the HoS doesn't use his shutters, they WILL smash through and escape.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Reimoo » Mon May 04, 2015 9:30 pm #85734

Yeah I was toying with the idea of giving the HoS a window into perma to taunt the prisoners but like Lumi said I figured it would be to much of a security hazard without space inbetween.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby DemonFiren » Mon May 04, 2015 11:14 pm #85760

Not if you put that window behind a console. There's no getting past those without tools.

And if you get tools in perma, you get better escape routes.
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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Reimoo » Tue May 05, 2015 1:36 am #85776

That's a good point.

I adjusted perma based on this and I was allowed to re-add solitary confinement and finally make space for a dedicated equipment room. Some people might not like it aesthetically though cause lol asymmetric cells

perma 1.jpg

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby allura » Tue May 05, 2015 1:20 pm #85864

i dont have any faith in this station, but as long as someone else does it might end up ok.

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Reimoo » Tue May 05, 2015 7:56 pm #85943

Do I count, allura?

Updated the OP map image. Here's cargo and mining.

cargo 1.jpg

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Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Not-Dorsidarf » Tue May 05, 2015 9:26 pm #85971

I don't suppose you could shuffle things a little bit so the QM office is where the secpost currently is? QM offices which are tucked away aren't really ever used except to store loot.
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Byond Username: Scones

Re: PlazaStation development thread - with pictures!

Postby Scones » Tue May 05, 2015 10:21 pm #86001

I really like the QM's window overview of the Cargo Bay
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha

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