[Riggle] Board Warning - banned from tournaments for counting cards

[iwishforducks]

BYOND account: iwishforducks

Ban type: forum board warning
Warning reason: This is a warning regarding the following post made by you: viewtopic.php?f=83&p=703745#p703745 .

Derailing a thread with counting after being asked to stop

Time warning was placed: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:24 AM
Your side of the story: the thread had already died out and at that point we were all just having a little fun. someone started counting as a joke, which only got to 2 before Riggle had posted “Stopped counting >:(“, which was followed by someone else counting and then i joined in by posting “2”.

Why you think you should be unbanned: the fun of counting is when you get adversaries, and so i thought riggle was posting to kill the chain rather than administratively stop counting. i figured if that was the case riggle would have used something like a mod bbcode.

there had also been people derailing the thread when there was actually stuff going on and no one had done anything about it. one of the soon-to-be headmins even encouraged people to starsector post. i was very much mislead by multiple admins into thinking that the off-topic posting was relaxed. it gives me a “rules for thee, not for me” vibe.

References of good conduct: i made a project zomboid mod that removes exercise pain and replaces it with exercise stamina a few months back
Anything else we should know: im fine with off-topic derailing getting cut down but i think this board warning was in poor form.

[Riggle]

Hiya, I'll try to explain my thought process.

The reason I didn't say anything about starsector is because they have at least something to talk about rather than just counting. Arm even posted a warning about counting in an announcement. You're right that the thread already died down and probably should have been locked sooner. I try to be quite lenient in player's club, it's supposed to be a place to shitpost after all.

The reason I didn't use a mod block is because I thought it was clear enough, we have a rule against spam and I asked everyone to stop. I wasn't 100% clear, that's true and it's on me. I assumed we don't need to play Simon says. If an admin joined to count after being asked to stop I'd be noting them too.

I'll think about asking people to post less starsector as well, maybe it's time. Again, I don't want to be too strict since it's supposed to be a place where forum rules are relaxed.

[iwishforducks]

The reason I didn't say anything about starsector is because they have at least something to talk about rather than just counting.

imo that’s what makes starsector posting so measurably harmful to threads because people will post actual filler posts with content in them. but i digress in that regard, because again, im not really opposed to off-topic posting being cut down.

If an admin joined to count after being asked to stop I'd be noting them too.

I'll think about asking people to post less starsector as well, maybe it's time.

i dont particularly care about starsector posting itself here (though i really fuckin hate it), my frustration is that people were actively derailing the thread when there was actual Things going on and you had turned a blind eye. but when nothing is going on and we’re all just goofin that’s when you decided to bring down the hammer.

[Riggle]

I decided to act on counting because it not only doesn't contribute (cough cough starsector posters), but it's also contentless, which counts as spam. I know you were just having fun and I hate to be a "no fun allowed" person, but the thread had some serious discussion. I'm not going to stop you from counting in a shitpost thread.

[iwishforducks]

but the thread had some serious discussion. I'm not going to stop you from counting in a shitpost thread.

yes, the thread had some serious discussion, but when it did there were people trying to derail the thread and nothing was done about it.

ultimately i do not care about being stopped from counting. this is more of a complaint about how the rules are being enforced than an appeal, honestly. but y’know can’t make an admin complaint since there’s a warning attached or whatever.

i really don’t feel like my concerns are being addressed here

[Riggle]

Let me put it another way: I only acted against people who counted because it's the lowest possible effort post you can make. The thread should have been closed sooner and I should have said something earlier, but I didn't, so nobody else apart from counters got warned.

[iwishforducks]

ok i still feel like my concerns haven't been addressed at all here. i couldn't find the exact words for my frustration at first, so i was hoping this would turn into a productive discussion, but despite best efforts this has gone absolutely nowhere.

something i kind of jabbed at but i truly want to emphasize is that this is less of a ban appeal and more of an admin complaint. but since there's a warning attached it's technically a ban appeal. whatever. it's really dumb. though admin complaint sounds zesty. like im trying to GET AT YOU! but really i just wanted to have an honest conversation. (which i do not feel like im getting here)

i had been contributing to the thread productively for page after page, yet through out the thread people are constantly deliberately trying to derail it, which was eluded to by other posters: [1] [2]

my say on the thread being derailed:

i was going to go through and report like all the off topic posts but kenderick's posts keep making me laugh too much and i'd be sad if kenderick wrestling the youtube bbcode got deleted. doubly so if it was because of my own reports. also because i'd be reporting a few admins and they would see who reported them.

there was also plenty of evidence to suggest that admins were actively in the thread monitoring it because posts were getting deleted and bans were getting handed out. so i wasn't confident my reports would even be taken seriously. i also didn't want to make enemies with admins because admins CAN see specifically who reports who. you can see why i talked about admins derailing the thread specifically- because there is no anonymity in reporting them on the forums. also one of my reports recently got closed instantly without any kind of response or anything so i had zero faith my reports wouldn't go anywhere but the trash bin.

overall this left me feeling really bitter and so i just started to care less and less about the thread. which is why i joined in on the counting, because there hadn't been any counting recently and at that point the thread was starting to settle down a little bit. so it was quite a surprise when i got a warning for "derailing the thread" when i had been actively making sure the thread wouldn't get washed away by people derailing it.

your responses about "being fine with starsector posting" only make me question the double standard being played here. because in my eyes there is no difference between counting and starsector posting. i am fine with off-topic posts being cracked down on, and in-fact welcome it. but i do not feel like my warning has moved the needle in the direction of that at all, despite being slapped for "derailing a thread"

i do not feel like you are doing a good job of keeping the forums on-topic, and the double-standard further drags the forums into the ground because literally the peanut thread about this ban appeal has been starsector-posting flavored. but when someone posted "1" in the thread, it was immediately deleted (and i assume given a warning)

bro i literally just want the forums to be on topic and not get drowned out by off-topic nonsense that's all i fucking ask dude

[Riggle]

I think Timberpoes was the one who closed warnings and initially deleted messages, I banned two people because they were being asses to eachother. Reports are much like ahelps in-game --- you can't really decide who's going to take it. We're all different and enforce the rules slightly differently. Your best bet is to keep reporting posts, you won't be punished for doing that (unless doing it in bad faith). As a side note normal admins cannot see reports, only Game Masters and above can.

As I said earlier, I took action against your post (and others like it) because it was extremely low effort and contributed to derailing. I didn't give enough thought into the warning message, I should have included something about spam.

I decided to act on counting because it not only doesn't contribute [...] but it's also contentless, which counts as spam.

Starsector posts at least have some content. This doesn't mean I'm fine with it and it's debatable which is worse for the thread, but that's not really important right now.

I haven't cracked down on all off-topic posting in player's club. It's a shitposting space, it's supposed to have relaxed rules. I understand your frustration and I'll try to crack down on it further without ruining people's fun.

I'm trying my best to establish a conversation and explain my reasoning, I hope this helps. I may not be fully understanding your concerns, and if that's the case I apologize.

[iwishforducks]

didn't respond to this because i wasn't sure exactly how i would. i think i've voiced my concerns enough at this point. not that they feel totally alleviated- you say you're not okay with starsector posts or whatever but im not entirely convinced of that. since, in my opinion, the counting at the end of the thread there was just pure fun posting. imo the starsector posting was more malicious and was an attempt to deliberately derail the thread. i understand you don't want to ruin people's fun and i totally agree that we shouldn't be devolving into a puritanical no-fun-zone.

I think Timberpoes was the one who closed warnings and initially deleted messages, I banned two people because they were being asses to eachother. Reports are much like ahelps in-game --- you can't really decide who's going to take it. We're all different and enforce the rules slightly differently. Your best bet is to keep reporting posts, you won't be punished for doing that (unless doing it in bad faith).

i had reported a post but it got closed by you without much response pretty quickly. this was on a different thread than the Donald Trump Nuclear Codes thread. last thing i would want to do is report posts that moderators had clearly scoured over and get a target on my back for simply being Annoying or Mini-Modding :(

As a side note normal admins cannot see reports, only Game Masters and above can.

thinking back to my time with the in-game admin role on this forum, i think i was conflating the fact that you could approve posts in FNR with handling reports. whoops. thank you for the correction.


with all that said, not interested in keeping this appeal up, so i will let you close this in the best way possible (unless you have more to say):

1

[Riggle]

Hopefully I can find a good balance between letting people have fun and threads not devolving like that one has!

2