Hornygranny - No Fun/IC friendships Allowed

[DrPillzRedux]

Byond account and character name: DrPillzRedux
Admin: Hornygranny
Time incident occured: 8:00 PM PST, 12/31/15
Detailed summary:

Red alert is declared and the crew is told to evac. Me and three others, who often play various thing like tabletop or RP in the bar, all went to a pod. We spent some time waiting at the pod in case anyone else came, but no one did. We launch it, mine a bit, and deploy the pod room. A few of us decide to play truth or dare while we wait when a skeleton noclips through the wall

admin avatar rattles, "You guys are taking the friendly roleplay a little further than we are comfortable"
admin avatar rattles, "All four plus of you hanging our every round is starting to make people suspicious"
admin avatar rattles, "That when bad things happen you would favor each other over other players"
admin avatar rattles, "Which is not allowed"

Except that if any of us see someone in need of help, we help. If we are converted, we fight. If people want to play with us, we accept them. Is there something wrong with regularly organizing tabletop games with people who want to do them?

Here's a post where an admin says IC friendships are fine if they do not give blatant advantages, such as weaponry or access: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 41#p137141

Salts-The-Wound asks, "SSSo no friendsss allowed on thisss ssspace ssstation?"

admin avatar rattles, "Given that i determine the laws of hte universe"
admin avatar rattles, "No, it is not"

Here is a direct quote from the rules.

2. Do not use information gained outside of in character means
i.e.. metagaming. This especially refers to communication between players outside of the game via things like Skype, known as metacomms. Characters are otherwise allowed to know everything about ingame mechanics or antagonists, as well as keep persistent friendships or relationships with other characters when not for the purpose of unfair advantage by teaming up together for little IC reason.

Apparently using a pod to escape when you should is not reason enough.

Here is a link to another admin talking about IC friendships: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 72#p141872

At this point I tell HG that the matter has been talked about before and was determined it's fine, unless you're giving out things you shouldn't. He gibs me.

admin avatar rattles, "Silence"
admin avatar rattles, "Avoid further judgement
admin avatar rattles, "That would result in the curse of non-identity"

Nameban threats are nice.

DEAD: ADMIN(Hornygranny) says, "you play in my universe, normie"

A good post on the matter by a player: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 73#p141873

[Hornygranny]

It's my judgement as a headmin that those involved are very near to taking their IC relationships past the point that is allowable. If you were in open violation of the rules you would already have been identity banned or banned from the server.

[paprika]

Why even warn them that what they're doing is gonna lead to getting banned when they metafriend?

All these people have been playing long enough to know the rules regarding metafriending. If they don't, and end up banned, that's on them.

Edit: Nevermind on that last bit

[DrPillzRedux]

I fail to understand how doing things like tabletops, blackjack, or going around the ship as assistants or gimmick jobs doing RP is in close violation of a rule that says it only is a problem when there is an advantage. What is the advantage? Priority seating at the library table? Dibs on a pack of cards or smokes? Maybe clothes in the vendor?

You say we only save one another which, if you check logs, is blatantly false. I know for a fact that whenever I see someone dying myself I drag them to safety, pen them, and try and get them to medical. I know the others do this as well. Yet we're told this is the reason for a warning? What about IcePacks strangling the same people every shift as a nonantag, disarming security and stealing their gear when they come to stop him?

Define the advantage.

Why even warn them that what they're doing is gonna lead to getting banned when they metafriend?

Except it's quite clear thus far there has been no toeing of the line.

[paprika]

Yeah honestly you should have been around back when metafriending was a seriously shitty problem pillz, I think HG's paranoia regarding you and your character's IC friends is justified.

Then again it's sort of a rare thing on /tg/ because

a) nobody roleplays on /tg/ anymore
b) when people have 'roleplayed' in the past it's usually just been metabuds being shitty to doubleteam everyone else

So maybe try to see it from his point of view, and instead of thinking this as a personal attack from him, take the opportunity to show you're just doing some wholesome roleplay and IC fun instead of being a shit which is what HG is concerned about in the first place

[Hornygranny]

I never made a claim that you don't help people who aren't part of your group. The advantage you gain is obvious, however. Your characters are so seldom alone that killing one as an objective practically necessitates killing the entire lizard group.

[paprika]

That's a fundamental problem with assassination objectives or game balance though, expecting everyone to be alone at some point just for the sake of tator objectives is dumb

[DrPillzRedux]

I was around in 2011/2012 for when there was that big metagang with shinu and several others. That is the example of what an advantageous group is and should not be allowed.

But us? We RP or play games, that's seriously it. If one of us is brigged, we don't do anything unless we're team antags. Even earlier, one of us got arrested for being a possible traitor. None of us stopped security, we let them take him.

I do apologize if I come off as snarky but I just don't understand aside from the assassination one. There are ways to get around that though. Voice changer, PDA message, trickery, bombing. There are so many options and it's insanely easy. It happens all the time.

[smittn]

I never made a claim that you don't help people who aren't part of your group. The advantage you gain is obvious, however. Your characters are so seldom alone that killing one as an objective practically necessitates killing the entire lizard group.

Thats hardly an argument, what about all miners, assistants who hide in lockers all round, the warden, etc.? I'm sure you could lure them away easily enough by -god forbid- roleplaying.

[Stickymayhem]

It's just the mechanics of being in a group

if one of you is a conversion antag, they'll likely convert the rest of the group, giving you lot a quadruple greater chance to be a group of antags, and it's impossible really to differentiate between "He gave antag to his buddies" and "The three guys who all stand around and fuck him are the first he converts because he's next to them" but honestly it's a cliquey snowflake kind of metashit that people don't like.

I think it's dumb and not in the spirit of the game to just use it as a platform to run around as the same group of lizards fucking, roleplaying on your own and generally being a boring consistency in a game which is usually great for variety between rounds. It's immersion breaking and annoying for a whole number of reasons that you can probably figure out based on simply being in a group all the time.

You all have a mechanical advantage, and it annoys everyone else. It's kind of selfish.

[DrPillzRedux]

That's understandable regarding team antag conversion. However, we don't just do our own RP. If someone wants to join us, we include them in. It's more fun with more people. Just earlier we went from a 3 person DnD game to 9, with people we rarely see, and we all had fun.

[bandit]

In my experience you do not include people in, unless "including them in" involves tabling them and throwing them out of the bar and saying "shut up nerd."

[DrPillzRedux]

In my experience you do not include people in, unless "including them in" involves tabling them and throwing them out of the bar and saying "shut up nerd."

That's interesting, considering you're either a human and come in screaming LIGGER, and are surprised when you get tossed out, or you play a lizard that strips naked, grabs and tables people, and are again surprised when you get kicked out. The life of Fortune Ray and Raises-The-Fortune.

When you run into a bar full of lizards screaming LIGGER, what do you expect?

[Zilenan91]

I can vouch for that, Bgo is either being very flirty and sometimes kinda creepy as a lizard or is being blatantly racist as a human, so them getting thrown out is something to be expected.

[bandit]

It just puts the lie to "we include everyone! We're not a metafriend group, we s-swear!" It's not as if I'm the only person I've observed this with.

[Zilenan91]

>being blatantly racist towards lizards as a whole
>"pull the trigger on every ligger"
>b-buh muh inclusion

[DrPillzRedux]

It just puts the lie to "we include everyone! We're not a metafriend group, we s-swear!" It's not as if I'm the only person I've observed this with.

So you play a racist or a creepy groping lizard to annoy people, and you are surprised when you aren't included.

Literally

what?

Have you once tried to act civilized and not like a hateful person or an animal?

I've made multiple attempts to appease you IC. All you do is scream ligger and run off.

[TechnoAlchemist]

lizards are a scourge on this server

[smittn]

bgo is just a shitter, if you act nice you'll get treated nice in return. I've never seen them abuse their metafriendships.

[DrPillzRedux]

bgo is just a shitter

I picked a random day from this month and search for bgo and ligger. Literally one of the first dozen of lines.

[01:34:00]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : Get the fuck out of here liz

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... ursday.txt

[04:47:25]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : UGH IT'S A LIGGER

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... turday.txt

[01:20:24]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : A bar full of ungassed lizards.

Then when tossed out by beanbags, I assume, she does this.

[01:20:40]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : I am being harmed by lizards.

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... Friday.txt


[02:49:21]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : It is impossible to be rude to lizards
[02:49:28]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : What they deserve is deat

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... uesday.txt

[01:21:26]SAY: Fortune Ray/Bgobandit : I'm going to chop off your fucking tail, lizard

https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/syb ... Monday.txt

[paprika]

Oh my god

[Zilenan91]

I think we're getting a bit off-topic here.

[TechnoAlchemist]

i mean bandit is right

[DrPillzRedux]

I think we're getting a bit off-topic here.

I felt it appropriate to provide proof of Bgo lying in an admin complaint and saying they aren't included without a reason.

[Zilenan91]

Yeah I get that but we were kinda sliding into shitting on people territory a little too fast

[bandit]

The difference is, I don't fuck over people's rounds (unless I'm an antag, in which case antags gonna antag) for the sake of their being a lizard, or give people advantages as a result. Radio shitposting means almost nothing. This thread, meanwhile, is about occasions where people *do* gain advantages as a result of being in the lizard fucksquad, and "b-but we include everyone!" is a weak defense.

[DrPillzRedux]

give people advantages as a result. Radio shitposting means almost nothing. This thread, meanwhile, is about occasions where people *do* gain advantages as a result of being in the lizard fucksquad,

Except until this point the only advantage with any merit is safety in numbers, which, again, has already been debunked. Antags are given enough tools to combat groups. Syndiebombs, minibombs, guns, powers, etc. Team conversions are a flimsy argument as well. Should it be against the rules to be grouped up in the bar and, if converted, you should get banned for it?

I suggest you stop, Bgo.

[Zilenan91]

Need I remind you of the time you full stripped me as the cap and left me in maint to die from a space breach just because I was a lizard?
Also yeah radio shitposting does mean a lot because if you're spamming ligger every round I'm surprised it shocks you that lizards will not like you.


Onto the squad itself, I haven't really had enough experiences with them to have a real opinion, but they've never seemed to be inherently shitty, and I haven't had any bad experiences. I don't really see the problem, though it must get annoying as an admin to have deadchat begging you to blanket the dorms in lava whenever they start fucking.

[bandit]

Need I remind you of the time you full stripped me as the cap and left me in maint to die from a space breach just because I was a lizard? Or how about the time you got banned from the server for exile implanting a bunch of lizards and throwing them through the gateway too?

Go ahead, but I'm pretty sure you have someone else in mind because neither of these things happened. If I was banned from the server for this you'd think I'd remember it, or that it'd be in my notes.

[DrPillzRedux]

This whole thing is getting overblown. It's literally a "Lizards must not congregate" thing at this point.

This whole thing is one giant, spicy meme.

[TechnoAlchemist]

saying that safety in numbers doesn't count as an advantage is honestly one of the stupidest things I've heard.

this issue is so stupid as a whole lmao I love this server

[ShadowDimentio]

Hello uninvolved third party with concerns over this bullshit nearing actual admin policy.

If people want to know each other and be chummy, let them. Whitewashing all friendly relationships as METAFRIENDING NOT ALLOWED BANNED can only lead to bad things.

Now, if they start breaking each other out of the brig merely by name then that's another story. If you want to help out someone who you know is a robust, fresh individual, what's the problem? We don't need a fucking admin jumping into things and threatening people with bans just because.

[Aloraydrel]

if we removed lizards this wouldn't happen tbh

[DrPillzRedux]

if we removed lizards this wouldn't happen tbh

Considering a few of the "fucksquad members" are human and I play as one as well, that would only make it easier to blend in.

[Steelpoint]

Lord Garithos is right.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Turn off lizards in server prefs

[Zilenan91]

Honestly, turning off lizards won't do anything. All it'll do is drive off players.

[Steelpoint]

Well its like cancer, if left alone too long it gets harder and harder to remove.

[DrPillzRedux]

Well its like cancer, if left alone too long it gets harder and harder to remove.

Cancer spreads to other organs and systems.

[NikNakFlak]

Were you perhaps thinking of this ban zilenan
Because that's not bgobandit

[Zilenan91]

I'm 99% sure it was a ban from captain since I was there but either way I'll edit my post since I can't find it after looking for a while

[lollerderby]

It's my judgement as a headmin that those involved are very near to taking their IC relationships past the point that is allowable.

You've had your warning, I'm not sure why this is an admin complaint, if you end up stepping over the line you'll be removed and that's that.