Saegrimr - Punishing Snow Ops For Existing

[Yakumo_Chen]

I like playing Snowdin Ops because there's lots of loot around that I can grab, and if the crew actually decide to come raid us, we stand a fair chance of actually fighting them with the snowdin loot around the Op base (since they have research and an infinite supply of guns on their side).

Saegrimr decided that we'd be forced to be locked in there. He put rwalls on the main entrance, trapped the walls with plasma mines, and set all the turrets against us. One round the blue toolbox was despawned to hamper efforts to hack the rwalls.

When we tried to hack down a different wall to get out (using the yellow toolbox and emergency welder), he spawned infinite numbers of bears and then spawned a bear with thousands of health when that didn't work (we still killed it when someone got spawned with god armor)

All this because he didn't want the snow ops to get the loot outside their base.

Now, the Op spawns are clearly intended to let them go out and fight shit for loot, it's in their spawn text. Intentionally making the ops unplayable removes the point of them existing. Sagrimir justified us as having to 'defend the op base' but that's pretty much impossible given if the crew is allowed to get all the loot first, they'll slaughter the ops, no question, because all they get is sketchkins and one combat shotgun if they can't get out. There was also a 'Do RP note' left for ops, in a low RP server we shouldn't be expected to use our obviously not RP oriented role to do RP, especially when we can't interact with the station outside being sheep for the slaughter should crew conquer Snowdin.

Sagrimir threatened to make a PR to make the snow ops basically pointless and unable to escape the base, and punished us trying to play the game by making it impossible to do anything outside of RP in the snow op base. We used clever methods to try and get around the threats and he 'rewarded' us by basically spawning shit until we either died or were afraid to leave. He basically removed fun at any chance he could and ruined the round just short of banning us for being unhappy with our fun being denied.

[peoplearestrange]

I'm not sure this particularly warrants a admin complaint as the side missions are just that and is mentioned, admins are also game masters with a larger view of the round in progress.

It's also been mentioned by a lot of people that the snowdin mission is way too easy with a lot of really high tech and powerful weaponry just lying about. Thus can have a massive unbalancing effect on the rest of the round.

TLDR: Snowdin is an easy mission that can cause easy unstoppable murder bone and other overpowered situation with little work towards it. Admins shape the way the round is played to make it enjoyable for the majority.

[Saegrimr]

Hooold up nagger, you don't even have half the facts right.

I put up the rwalls in the door, set the turrets to no faction, and put a plasma mine in front of the rwall in case it got broken down. Well you broke it down anyway after complaining that the walls were there and triggered all the nasty shit anyway after I didn't exactly tell you to not leave ever, so I guess hints don't work on you.

That was the end of the round. You complained a lot, whatever. The station was spared a bunch of viscerator and inferno grenades thrown into the gateway.

SECOND ROUND. I set the turrets to no faction and left a turbo bullshit zombie on the far end past the turrets. Being cheeky you decide to weld out the bottom and loot all that to get around it. The other admins have taken notice and though this was absolutely hilarious and you guys seemed to be enjoying an actual challenge for once so a shitton of bears, var editing, and lots of unfair bullshit in general from various people get spawned -OUTSIDE- the base that you keep leaving. Too lazy to find the quote from you directly but "I have a sleeper and i'm stubborn."

The PR thing was me referencing the complaints here https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5943 not that I would bother making one or give a shit enough to code it myself. You accused me of killing the away missions, and I suggested that it is the players killing it for eachother by abusing it constantly, and SOMEONE will be salty enough to make a removal/nerf PR.
Which is actually the reason I wanted to try walling off the doors. To see what the response would be.
I can't really say i'm surprised by any of the results either, admin complaint included.

So yes, continue to point the finger at me that I dare mess with your completely optional spawn because you wanted free loot.

[TheNightingale]

It's okay to explore outside the base, but it's not okay to make a beeline for the loot and ignore your duties of maintaining the base. If you want to explore, at least try and roleplay first; first and foremost, you're a roleplay job, like the Wizard Academy Defender. Even just looking at the inactive comms relay, going "Hmm... we need a multitool, let's check the surrounding buildings!" and looking around a little is fine. There being hundreds of bears there is just par for the course, and if you're not willing to get killed by the wildlife, don't exit the base.

[MMMiracles]

I'm gonna get around eventually to just re-doing the entire dungeon segment of the mission, along with an entire revamp of the loot drop list. I'd encourage admins to try and limit an Op's ability to steal all the loot until I can be assed enough to fix my mess.

[TheLongbowMan]

The loot is there for the players, not the ops. The ops are a side role, and playing it how you are playing it will only lead to it getting removed.

[Incomptinence]

Ops are also players TheLongbowMan.

[Zilenan91]

So you're supposed to sit in there waiting for players who may not ever even come for you. That's terrible.

[Saegrimr]

So you're supposed to sit in there waiting for players who may not ever even come for you. That's terrible.

Or you know...

Not intentionally spawn yourself in there instead of one of the many other also optional ghost roles, or actually joining the round normally.

[lumipharon]

It's a 100% optional ghost role. Rather then spectating round start in the hopes of free validsalad as a snowop, I (believe) the intention was more 'oh look, some nerds are fighting through the dungeon, time to spawn in as snowops and try assfuck them in the mouth pussy'. Not what it currently is 'loot everything before the gateway opens, then throw 54503946094580 vicerators through the gateway/kill anyone the instant they come through.'

[imblyings]

throwing viscerators/spiders/etc through the gateway is bannable so that's a moot point to make

snow ops or wizard defenders aren't there for RP you madmen, yes RP with yourselves if it's a slow day, but you're there because fighting npc mobs for the billionth time on an away mission sucks, is predictable, and mob AI will never best human control.

if the snow ops want the loot let them take it, they can't enjoy it on the station anyway without being banned. If the players want the loot, kill the ops for it, if the ops kill the crew before they can, well too bad, away missions shouldn't be easy guaranteed loot trips.

[Zilenan91]

^^^^^ That's why I love wiz academy that shit is fucking hard as balls and it's great. Loot isn't top-tier either.

[onleavedontatme]

Basically everything Ausops said. Who cares if they loot the away mission?

[Hornygranny]

If the ops want to go loot the map let them do it. If the map creator wants to restrict them from doing it that's up to him.