Umbrage: Shadowling Redux (delayed?)

For feedback on the game code and design. Feedback on server rules and playstyle belong in Policy Discussion.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

Do you want shadowlings back?

Yes!
36
56%
Doesn't matter to me.
10
16%
No!
18
28%
 
Total votes : 64

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Xhuis
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Umbrage: Shadowling Redux (delayed?)

Postby Xhuis » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:12 pm #240753

This gamemode has been delayed because of a bunch of drama that happened between me and the maintainers. Full thread below and drama starts on page 8.

Spoiler:
(Original thread title was "Do you want shadowlings back?", development posts start from page two onward)

This is the development, suggestion, and feedback thread for Umbrage, a WIP gamemode made to succeed shadowling. GitHub PR can be found here.

Some stuff you should know:
  • Overall goal remains the same, as do core mechanics of conversion
  • Shadowlings are now called umbrages, and thralls are now called veils
  • Umbrages have a completely new ability set
  • Psi replaces cooldowns for abilities, and is a resource that umbrages get
  • Psi starts at 100; 20% of max psi cannot be permanently depleted and will always recharge
  • Psi is regenerated by using the Devour Will ability on a conscious, player-controlled human
Last edited by Xhuis on Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:25 pm, edited 8 times in total.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay

wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity

ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.

CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.

wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay

IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.

wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL



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Saegrimr
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:13 pm #240754

Xhuis wrote:Assuming it did make a return it would probably be rewritten from the ground up and changed quite a bit.


If that's the case then yeah. Shadowling as it was, cool idea but just kinda sucked in practice.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

onleavedontatme
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:19 pm #240756

>do you want X back
>I am going to completley change X into Y if so

This poll seems a bit meaningless

Reece
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Reece » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:21 pm #240758

I found it fairly fun when I played it.

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Xhuis
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Xhuis » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:23 pm #240759

Kor wrote:>do you want X back
>I am going to completley change X into Y if so

This poll seems a bit meaningless

You make a good point, but I would rather keep the core design and fix the flaws that were obvious with the first iteration than make a whole new mode.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay

wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity

ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.

CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.

wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay

IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.

wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL

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PKPenguin321
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:31 pm #240763

For now just add it back as it was and we can fix it from there.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
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danno
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby danno » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:11 pm #240775

haha its like you're two slimes talkin about things at each other lmao
Hornygranny wrote:wtf i like danno now

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I don't even play ss13 anymore, pretty much due to dannos stupid bullshit

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ShadowDimentio
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:15 pm #240777

PKPenguin321 wrote:For now just add it back as it was and we can fix it from there.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

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Xhuis
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Xhuis » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:19 pm #240781

With so many changes since the gamemode got reverted, it would be decently hard to bring it back to today's code - plus, it doesn't meet a lot of the standards that are now in place. I suppose I can see.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay

wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity

ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.

CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.

wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay

IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.

wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL

Jacough
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:24 pm
Byond Username: Jacough

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Jacough » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:29 pm #240783

I've had some great times with the shadowlings mode, especially when it comes to firefights in dark maint tunnels or stalking around maint as a shadowling looking for lone crew members to catch and convert.
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ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:34 pm #240785

Xhuis wrote:With so many changes since the gamemode got reverted, it would be decently hard to bring it back to today's code - plus, it doesn't meet a lot of the standards that are now in place. I suppose I can see.


All I want is the old glare. It was perfect. I don't care what else you do as long as it still has the glare.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

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Oldman Robustin
 
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 2:18 pm
Byond Username: ForcefulCJS

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Oldman Robustin » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:36 pm #240786

Already gave my thoughts elsewhere but the best part about Slings was the PARANOIA GAMEPLAY(tm).

You would actually be worried when a coworker walked into your room with a mask on. When a dept starts smashing its lights, you would legitimately be afraid to investigate.

A good sling mode would bring back conversions but using scaling similar to Gang War so that Slings don't just snowball with mass-recruitment. I think even a hard cap would be appropriate (Slings already have sacrifice mechanics that could be used to free up Thrall slots). The mode would end with some type of "defend the objective" mechanic that we saw in Gang War/Cult/Cockcult. Ideally the objective would have some nuance that would make it different than the others.

On the other hand I have very little confidence that coders would get it right.
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pidey
 
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Byond Username: Lordpidey

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby pidey » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:40 pm #240788

Yes, but shadowling NEEDS a better instruction set. A big problem with it is it came up so rarely, that the people who DID roll shadowing often didn't know what they were doing.

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ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:43 pm #240792

Sling gets 10 converts max. 3 get to be of higher status with proper abilities, but can't hang out in the light with the other 7 just being normies with antag status.

If the sling wants to ascend it can attempt it at any time, however to do so it needs to create a totem by sacrificing a thrall and protecting the totem for the required duration. More thralls lowers the duration but even at 10 it'd still be lengthy.

Bam. Not a full conversion mode but still has some inspiration of it and still has the paranoia undertones with incentives to do your job and do it well-- if you pop early the crew very well could bring searing light into your clubhouse and fuck your shit up.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby CPTANT » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:47 pm #240793

No, the auto aim ranged parasting was incredibly lame.


And the rest of the gamemode was just another conversion mode.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:53 pm #240796

The ranged parasting was defeated by dragging a mouse with you. It wasn't flawless.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

onleavedontatme
 
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:56 pm #240797

This kills tactical mouse pulling

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ChangelingRain
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:36 pm
Location: The biggest lake
Byond Username: ChangelingRain
Github Username: ChangelingRain

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ChangelingRain » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:01 pm #240799

The ranged parasting could return but with literally just a mouse click! Wouldn't that be fun. We have the technology.
Plays Joan Lung and various AIs and cyborgs with mythology and magical creature-themed names. Joan on IRC.
earth-clawing illuminati trans girl

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ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:03 pm #240801

Absolutely halal.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

onleavedontatme
 
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby onleavedontatme » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:04 pm #240802

What if instead we didn't add another conversion mode based around the worst aspect of our combat.

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ShadowDimentio
 
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:15 am
Byond Username: David273

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:46 pm #240824

>The other conversion modes aren't based around stuns

Conversion is either instant or based around stuns, Kor. You baka.
Spoiler:
"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
-Timbrewolf

"I prefer my coffees to run dry too *snorts a line of maxwell house*"
-Super Aggro Crag

"You don't have an evil bone in your body, unless togopal comes for a sleepover"
-Bluespace

">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
-Anonmare

"Then why did you get that boob job?"
-DrPillzRedux

"You take that back you colonial mongrel"
-Docprofsmith

"I don't care whether or not someone with an IQ 3 standard deviations below my own thinks they enjoy Wizard rounds."
-Malkraz

User avatar
Davidchan
 
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:48 pm
Byond Username: Davidchan

Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Davidchan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:55 pm #240829

Are we suggestion a melee attack that RNG's conversion or requires multiple hits to build up in a person to conver them? Could be interesting but I still see most slings and thralls just getting stunprods and binding prey.

Slings shouldn't be a forced stealth antag, imo. As slings grow in power maybe crew in a certain radius might get an ominous message or hear a noise when a Sling gets their 5th, 10th or 15th thrall. Changing Ascension to a timed hatch (similar to Dominators from Gang) that would require the thralls to defend or the Sling to hide/barricade themselves in well enough that people can't get in and kill them (make the chrysalis super vulnerable to light?)

Consuming thralls to heal/reset cooldowns could be an idea, restoring the sling but lowering their thrall count by one, turning said former thrall into a shade or non-humanoid shadow entity with some spooky powers but all around a short term gain for a long term loss to the shadowlings.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:58 pm #240830

Changelings have been deformed into a very vocal antag, so what do you mean we don't need a stealth antag? We absolutely do.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby oranges » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:04 pm #240835

no

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Davidchan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:14 pm #240840

Antags are meant to make the round interesting and enjoy able for most of the playerbase. Having antags that can complete their objectives without ever raising the alert until it's too late to stop them isn't fun. It's typically far to punishing for new players to the role as one fuck up (especially in team modes like old sling) can make coming out on top next to impossible, on the flip side if a player who knows what they are doing can stealth up to the final bit of their objectives, the crew has little to no chance of combating them. The only time Stealth antags are good is for roles with static power levels, like Traitors or Nuke Ops who arguably get less powerful as the round drags on and they run out of resources.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby D&B » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:43 pm #240859

Remove cuck cult and buff jungle fever
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby InsaneHyena » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:06 am #240864

Only if you remove clocks first.
Bring back papercult.

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Gun Hog » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:22 am #240869

I miss Shadowling, and I would love to have a reworked version back! It would be a good opportunity to upgrade our very basic, tile-only, one-color lighting system to more of something akin to Goon's beautiful system. Balance wise, the veil power would have to reworked so that it affects lights better. As a Shadowling RD, I liked to pass out night vision equipment to everyone I can, especially Security, as it made them less likely to carry around several lights at once. They would walk confidently into the darkness, only to get slaughtered.

I enjoy Clockwork cult, and would not sacrifice it for Shadowling, however.

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby onleavedontatme » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:41 am #240874

Well yeah the real answer to this is you need to

-Make lighting directional

-Make vision directional

-Make people with night vision able to still be able to see if things are dark

Shadowling wasn't even about light vs dark at the end, just a pile of wizard spells and other crutches because you're trying to build on a system completely unsuited for stealth or light vs darkness.

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Armhulen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:47 am #240876

Oldman Robustin wrote:1) Conversion scaling mechanic. First few conversions will be very fast, but once you've got X number of thralls (where X scales with crew size), the conversion time will start to increase significantly - to the point that only a desperate Sling would sit around trying to convert anyone, perhaps even a hardcap would make sense.

2) Interactive finale. Turning into a god within a few seconds of reaching 15 thralls was just anticlimatic for a number of reason. It just encourages Slings to play super conservatively while snagging the low hanging fruit and avoiding anyone actually equipped to stop them. A "defend the win condition" type finale would have been far more appropriate, drop a Chrysalis, have it summon your thralls, then the crew gets a warning about the Chrysalis location and have X minutes to destroy it matures and allows the Sling to ascend and win.

3) A bunch of other tweaks to its abilities to make the Sling less insane to catch, raise the skill floor and drop the skill ceiling so that its not instant death for newbies but not an unkillable superwizard for good players either.

re add this, go down the list
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby confused rock » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:28 am #240911

It replaces cuck cult right
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Incomptinence » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:39 am #240939

How about instead of big bad monster goes around converting people to gain power the big bad monster instead kills people to gain revives at like a cocoon structure they leave behind per revive, ash walker rate 2 corpses 1 life.

We can then focus on monster with incentive to kill people that gets stronger rather than everyone drags goombas to a monster and it never does anything but convert till it ascends.

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Armhulen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:57 pm #241085

Incomptinence wrote:How about instead of big bad monster goes around converting people to gain power the big bad monster instead kills people to gain revives at like a cocoon structure they leave behind per revive, ash walker rate 2 corpses 1 life.

We can then focus on monster with incentive to kill people that gets stronger rather than everyone drags goombas to a monster and it never does anything but convert till it ascends.

??????????????????????????????????????
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Lumbermancer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:15 pm #241096

Correct me if I'm wrong but the early iteration of Sling didn't have the end-goal ascended meme form right?

Remove it, it stupid and I hate it.

Make the thralls more like zombies, sick automatons, bumbling buffoons unable to use items or inventory reduced to being zombiecucks who walk around and follow simple commands.

Make Sling an antag not a game mode, figure out an objective.

There, I fixed it.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Armhulen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:16 pm #241097

what, an antag as in a shadowling in traitor?

and, to add on, I like the zombie idea as long as you can tumor dead bodies, alive bodies, husked bodies... don't let the shadowling get into the morgue.
the zombies should be npc until the player renters corpse or a random ghost clicks on the zombie.

but there's a downside to the zombie idea, it ruins all the paranoia the gamemode HAD. at that point you might as well remove the shadow downsides and just make it a necromancer wizard. Shadowling was fun because it wasn't like the other game modes, where your friends would get dragged into maint and come back out with a gas mask on. And that would be gone. And that would make me sad.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Lumbermancer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:34 pm #241103

Shadowling was fun because it wasn't like the other game modes, where your friends would get dragged into maint and come back out with a gas mask on. And that would be gone. And that would make me sad.


You mean like Narsie Cult? Clockcult? Rev? Gang? It was just another conversion mode just with different flavor.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby CPTANT » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:40 pm #241107

Lumbermancer wrote:
Shadowling was fun because it wasn't like the other game modes, where your friends would get dragged into maint and come back out with a gas mask on. And that would be gone. And that would make me sad.


You mean like Narsie Cult? Clockcult? Rev? Gang? It was just another conversion mode just with different flavor.


And more boring since Slings and thralls were very restricted in what to do, sit in maint and abduct/convert people.

yay.

Convert and ranged parasting were basically the only sling abilities used.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Lumbermancer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:47 pm #241110

I don't remember Thralls having any restrictions.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Xhuis » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:54 pm #241111

Thank you everyone for the feedback! I'll type out some responses when I get home.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Aloraydrel » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:02 pm #241115

Hand of God was better

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby CPTANT » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:07 pm #241116

Aloraydrel wrote:Hand of God was better


Gang was better.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Xhuis » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:47 pm #241124

CPTANT wrote:
Aloraydrel wrote:Hand of God was better


Gang was better.

I really liked gang though, so I'd say it was better, yeah.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Incomptinence » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:55 pm #241151

Armhulen wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:How about instead of big bad monster goes around converting people to gain power the big bad monster instead kills people to gain revives at like a cocoon structure they leave behind per revive, ash walker rate 2 corpses 1 life.

We can then focus on monster with incentive to kill people that gets stronger rather than everyone drags goombas to a monster and it never does anything but convert till it ascends.

??????????????????????????????????????

Conversion ruins monsters and this mode, HEAVILY.

Sling becomes dedicated conversion machine, as with any conversion mode people may join willingly. Where's the the fear of the big baddy?

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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Wyzack » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:00 pm #241152

Aloraydrel wrote:Hand of God was better


Rip hand of God, rip Neerti
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby ShadowDimentio » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:02 pm #241154

Hand of God will be fondly remembered as TG's least functional gamemode.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Xhuis » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:13 pm #241155

All right, I'm here.

pidey wrote:Yes, but shadowling NEEDS a better instruction set. A big problem with it is it came up so rarely, that the people who DID roll shadowing often didn't know what they were doing.

In-game documentation would be added to the new iteration of shadowlings.

Several people wrote:Various conversion concerns

I can't say for certain how conversion will play into the new version. It was a big controversy back then, and it still is right now. None of the presented solutions appeal to me right now, but perhaps I'll think of something. In the meantime, this is the best place to put your ideas down.

ChangelingRain wrote:The ranged parasting could return but with literally just a mouse click! Wouldn't that be fun. We have the technology.

Glare will be returning in a different form. All I can say for now is that it will be tentacular.

Davidchan wrote:Are we suggestion a melee attack that RNG's conversion or requires multiple hits to build up in a person to conver them? Could be interesting but I still see most slings and thralls just getting stunprods and binding prey.

Slings shouldn't be a forced stealth antag, imo. As slings grow in power maybe crew in a certain radius might get an ominous message or hear a noise when a Sling gets their 5th, 10th or 15th thrall. Changing Ascension to a timed hatch (similar to Dominators from Gang) that would require the thralls to defend or the Sling to hide/barricade themselves in well enough that people can't get in and kill them (make the chrysalis super vulnerable to light?)

Consuming thralls to heal/reset cooldowns could be an idea, restoring the sling but lowering their thrall count by one, turning said former thrall into a shade or non-humanoid shadow entity with some spooky powers but all around a short term gain for a long term loss to the shadowlings.

Shadowlings have always been stealth-centric. I could implement a "loud phase" or something like that, but staying hidden will likely remain important. There's creative things you can do with your thralls - have them cause trouble in an area to draw attention away, or lesser glare a dude in a big group while not wearing an ID.

I disagree entirely with RNG conversion unless it has some luck-trumping mechanic, like injured people being more vulnerable to it, and melee conversion is always kind of a thing.

oranges wrote:no

Good banter good banter

InsaneHyena wrote:Only if you remove clocks first.

Clockcult is no longer my territory. I passed it onto Joan many moons ago, and people have not often been allowed to touch it without her approval. For context, the last time I merged something into clockcult was July.

Kor wrote:Well yeah the real answer to this is you need to

-Make lighting directional

-Make vision directional

-Make people with night vision able to still be able to see if things are dark

Shadowling wasn't even about light vs dark at the end, just a pile of wizard spells and other crutches because you're trying to build on a system completely unsuited for stealth or light vs darkness.

While some of your concerns have merit, the simplicity of our lighting system is part of the appeal, to me. It means newer players can still be helpful by carrying around light sources, and prevents complication in an already-complicated gamemode.

Lumbermancer wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but the early iteration of Sling didn't have the end-goal ascended meme form right?

Remove it, it stupid and I hate it.

Make the thralls more like zombies, sick automatons, bumbling buffoons unable to use items or inventory reduced to being zombiecucks who walk around and follow simple commands.

Make Sling an antag not a game mode, figure out an objective.

There, I fixed it.

Your proposals sound fun for the shadowling but unfun for everyone else. Being removed from the round and made into effectively a simple animal isn't fun at all, although it would be a great way to prevent people voluntarily being converted. Shadowlings have had ascendance from the start, but it can easily be tweaked. Right now I'm planning on making their "ascendant" form into eldritch "progenitors", which are still immensely powerful but not world-endingly so and still mortal.

Shadowling zombies might be cool with corpses, but only if they can be recovered afterwards. Having seen changelings methodically go through the morgue and headcrab every body to gibs just because they could, watching your playtime for that round end forever because someone is feeling like a dick isn't fun gameplay.

Aloraydrel wrote:Hand of God was better

Thanks. Could you maybe tell me how without being completely obtuse?

ShadowDimentio wrote:Hand of God will be fondly remembered as TG's least functional gamemode.

Oh, cut Remie some slack. It was a very, very high-upkeep mode and probably destined to fail with how hard it is to get right.

Wyzack wrote:Rip hand of God, rip Neerti

Neerti went to Polaris. He deserves no mourning, and I dance on his grave.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby leibniz » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:45 pm #241165

I think it's idiotic that ascended shadowlings are immune to everything.
They deserve their greentext but molesting 10-15 people doesn't make you a god, it just irks me even with our nonexistent lore standards.
Singulo and bombing should kill them for a bit, they could rise from their ashes and keep their greentext but at least it would look less silly.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Luke Cox » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:55 pm #241189

The core concept is pretty neat. It was given up on way too quickly in my opinion.
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Armhulen » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:07 am #241193

Incomptinence wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:How about instead of big bad monster goes around converting people to gain power the big bad monster instead kills people to gain revives at like a cocoon structure they leave behind per revive, ash walker rate 2 corpses 1 life.

We can then focus on monster with incentive to kill people that gets stronger rather than everyone drags goombas to a monster and it never does anything but convert till it ascends.

??????????????????????????????????????

Conversion ruins monsters and this mode, HEAVILY.

Sling becomes dedicated conversion machine, as with any conversion mode people may join willingly. Where's the the fear of the big baddy?

no, as in i literally didn't know what you're saying. and besides, only THE shadowling can convert, so you still get to be you before becoming a brainless thrall

also that's a good idea. they still look the same but when the talk it's babble and moaning, so they can cuff you but they're dead inside
Go to bed bro, she's not thinking about you.

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Luke Cox
 
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Re: Do you want shadowlings back?

Postby Luke Cox » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:46 am #241237

If we want to brainstorm this effectively, we need to lay out everything that was wrong with the original shadowling. Who wants to start?
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