/tg/Station 13

generally good points The problem with closing this stuff off from discussion and being dispositionally conservative about the rules is that it lets people smuggle in a lot of inconsistent, personal, and peevish tendencies otherwise unexamined. Being uncritical about it is how you get a few years d...

The main followup policy question that comes to mind is "what to do if a meta emerges of security just lying in the security records to stop silicons from releasing prisoners" Then they should only do so under Law 1 requirements, security has to stay on their toes (and egregious shitsec/f...

I think a lot of tgstation players take shit for granted that in actuality is relatively new and sucked without. We're going in a direction, some kind of direction, but I have hope Having been there for that shit, 100%. SS13 and tg are better than they've ever been. The server space writ large is b...

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:28 pm
he seems alright to me

anecdotally these things are total assholes to work with in captivity, they're antisocial and suspicious outside of their little family groups

Okay, so something like this? 3. Nonviolent prisoners cannot be assumed harmful. Violent prisoners cannot be subsequently assumed non-harmful. Knowingly or in ignorance of clear evidence releasing a harmful prisoner is a harmful act. Silicons can use the crime listed in a prisoner's security record...

What kind of unrobust plastic-tube drinking failed parkour enthusiast gets robusted by a fucking mech? this is totally intuition and anecdote but I'm guessing it was either a blob or heretic Mechs seem to put in outsize work on Manny with blobs, and heretics' kit and armor makes them most vulnerabl...

There's never going to be a hard-set line where this kind of thing is or isn't acceptable, since we don't want rules where we're just checking boxes, but if you can credibly link the current threat to the destruction of the station, I'm pretty sure you're good to take off the kiddie gloves. This is...

what I am saying is if there is no threat to you or the station you shouldn't be pregearing to the level of making combat mechs. i think that is a very reasonable request of the players ideally most headmin rulings should point towards a written rule, most of them are just clarification No, it's no...

While it depends on exactly what the player's motivation for spamming combat mechs is, generally shouldn't it be considered powergaming if they're only making one combat mech for themselves compared to a lot of combat mechs for multiple people? This'd be my intuition, and I think it's a great point...

My potential code solution to the proposed problem is: Make some combat mechs require a part that comes from cargo that requires security access. Beepskies are limited in a similar fashion but still get made pretty often. Might work well enough. It's sort of odd that cargo can freely order a lot of...

if you're plotting invidious harassment and how to burn people out over this shit because you disagree on policy issues or butt heads and get rolled up on it, and your sum defense isn't "I was framed, this is a setup," it's probably healthiest both for you and the community you were in to ...

only if you're willing to admit of a very loose definition of what counts as good enough reason - like, "it's above a green star and there's been at least one callout over the radio" - like it works with guncargo in practice - otherwise no You should be handling these things on their use, ...

I dislike progression antags because they overly gamify antags with Numbers Go Up gameplay loops. I don't believe this makes for better SS13 or really even good SS13. Similar to when Chefs and Bartenders got those dumb fucking bots, they started ignoring other players because they could complete a ...

"I'm tired, boss." I don't think this is necessarily true, but I think your perception is true and revealing (and painful to read, man. Join me on lavaland and forget the world of heretics and shuttles for a bit.) People play harder at a higher mechanical level on Sibyl and Terry from my ...

This doesn't always play out perfectly in practice because our MRP players can still be massive pissbaby powergamer tryhards that don't actually want to be a participant in a good shift of SS13, they want to be the main character in a shitty shift of SS13. And all it takes is one out of 60 people t...

I would argue that it's not fair play, but I don't see an issue with that. It's underhanded and scummy, but you're playing the bad guy . You're not supposed to be nice or play fair. There's nothing wrong with doing whatever you need to in order to get your objectives done. I fucked up by not being ...

Honestly none of this decides whether the game is going to be job sim or not, changes to Dynamic will set the pace. God I can't wait for the new new new Dynamic that's going to save us all people in the community help set the paratext that staff and maints respond to (or don't) - the game is somewh...

the reason the "IC reasons" part is so important is that other players pick up on this and it creates a narrative that becomes more than just clicking on sprites and getting the "you're winner" greentext. people who enjoy RP often remember the narratives and stories more than th...

This one should be pretty much wrapped. 3 for 3: no, this isn't typebaiting. Is it in good taste or necessarily healthy for getting people to play along in situations where there might actually be a reason to write stuff? It's not in bad taste. It's fair play. But it is fair play in a game where you...

What do other people think? Got any better ideas for futureproofing the clarity of that line? Or do you think it should actually be changed in a different way entirely? Broadly speaking, we should can Asimov for something like Corporate or put it into a much more even rotation with other lawsets so...

I feel like we have kinda lost sight of the core dynamic. which is exactly why we shouldn't be giving one side self-enforced slippers and the other side a free pass to use steel-toe boots when it comes to teeth-kicking - if you're gonna deviate from this dynamic, it has to be in a way that's fair t...

I feel like we have kinda lost sight of the core dynamic. which is exactly why we shouldn't be giving one side self-enforced slippers and the other side a free pass to use steel-toe boots when it comes to teeth-kicking - if you're gonna deviate from this dynamic, it has to be in a way that's fair t...

They won the roulette and were chosen to be the bad guy. Sometimes that leaves you drawing the shortest straw and ending up horizontal as a result. It would be acting in bad faith if they didn't make the most of their role in whatever way they saw fit to create these interactions. Let's not paint a...

. If we couldn't, why do we have rules against it as is? They are functionally similar. Good faith rules on the part of the player to control their behaviour despite having deeper knowledge. Just because you can doesn't mean you should - the problem with putting a rule like this in place now is tha...

for fucks sake fight after making this i found the new dynamic hack MD https://hackmd.io/@tgstation/SkeUS7lSp this might help tweak chaos levels and looks like an objective improvement to the system it doesn't seem likely to change any of the questions of how you should play antag, but more careful...

The point of offering non-mechanical or non-competitive offramps is to introduce more meaningful choice. Crucially, if somebody takes your offer and succeeds or meets it, you should honor your end of the deal. I.E. "look man, I gotta kill you and make you not alive any more, any last wishes/a l...

theres been alot of discourse around dynamic and how its very stinky and no-good. but it seems nothing to change it has ever really pulled through, so if we are stuck with this system. How do we make the best of it? how as an antag should you response to the insane ammount of antags dynamic injects...

Dynamic introduces more threats over time and varies them up from one set script of the old gamemodes. On the one hand, * this can add more trouble and drama later in a round - and makes it less of a potential loss to latejoin * this can let people do more of their mechanics and gameplay content by ...

8bot wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:05 am oh fuck i accidentally voted on this one
how do i undo this STOP THE COUNT

dominionbro ...
it's over......
(i also accidentally voted)

sounds like a skill issue, my table says "its what my character would do" before shooting a bomb they are stood directly next to (knowingly causing it to explode while they are the only person inside the blast radius) when they didn't have to do that yea but the freedom to smash my dick w...

Folks' statics aren't sacred, but they probably shouldn't be fucked with if you don't have some sort of license like antag or tit-for-tat retaliation in any sort of meaningfully irreversible way if you don't wanna court rule 1 or self-antagging - which it seems that they did. This looks like a fair ...

I think Dalm's angle is more about making things gentler for antags who feel like they have a lot of validhunting pressure on them because of how things work but want to do something slower, more chill, or narrative that might expose them to getting outed as they have dramatic scenes or negotiation...

The point I'm trying to make here, is traitors have a lot of options when it comes to how they want to maintain anonymity. This policy would not give more options, or strengthen some of the tools in the traitors toolbelt, instead it give the stealth antag the permission to say "Fuck it" k...

There's a lot of antisocial and unfun shit you can get up to that is probably justifiable under most folks' conception of a "reasonable character" and their motivations. "It was my IC" or "bro I'm just playing my character" does not and should not fly at your table unl...

I remember when virology was two classic diseases, cold and flu, and they were just diseases because there were no advanced diseases, and you just cured them with spaceacillin and buckling a monkey to the bed Unless you made puppy eyes at the CMO, Cap, or Cargo hard enough and they ordered you a smo...

[snap] [slim jim] I can see what you mean, but my thought is like, for one there probably shouldn't be restrictions on antags RRing-- they can if they like, and for some objectives it's necessary. What this would (hopefully) do is let them make the conscious choice not to without forcing them into ...

I'd like to suggest a very rough policy of revived character having a foggy memory of their death. This could be done as a popup on revival, similar to when a heretic sacrifices someone. I haven't seen many players ignore the heretic sacrifice forgetfulness, so I can't imagine there'd be too much i...

Some players want more things handled IC Some players don't want anyone to take responsibility for handling things IC I've pondered this one a bunch, I guess there's some ideal utopia where I wish more things could just be left to IC handling but it probably just plays into the wrong things too muc...

in a well-balanced competitive game TGstation is neither well balanced nor competitive, and should remain that way. This is a roleplaying funny space game, and policy is how we broadly direct roleplay. Our goal is to broadly direct Roleplay away from people thinking this is supposed to be well bala...

if I see a fish doctor it's on sight

I would go so far as to say that the sec players who play sec primarily for this reason, are usually bad sec players, because the only people who have fun putting players in timeout over inconsequential crimes are those doing it to powertrip or derive satisfaction at someone else’s frustration/irri...

Hell, I'll give a case here about why the negligence bit matters so much. The other day on Manny, we were chilling in engineering when some bastard in the Magnate MOD came blowing through causing trouble, attacking folks, at some point trying to drag somebody off into the snow. Their ID (gold) was '...

aren't half the arcade machine prizes things that are meant to fool people that aren't paying attention into thinking that there's an esword / red spacesuit / whatever around kinda like the old trick of renaming a book to "cryptographic sequencer" and putting it in your bag in front of so...

"Faking a revolution" is defined as randomly flashing members of the crew for no reason other than to make people think there's a revolution. This inevitably leads to grief and will result in punishment from admins, up to and including escalating bans. Discretion should be used by admins ...

[snip] [snip] [snibbedy snab :DDD] CDOs/Civil Dispute Officers were slightly before my time on SR, but my impression of dealing with a lot of nonantag crime and from playing a Lot of HRP sec has been that running, high-octane antagonism kind of damns you if you show up wanting to issue parking tick...

this shit got me feeling like m bison https://youtu.be/P3ALwKeSEYs progression antags are a stain upon the codebase IMO. think about all of the good and fun ss13 videos and how many of them are about antagonists taking dumb risks for their dumb gimmicks. case in point: https://youtu.be/jC-6EPgoWbI ...

Dead-on agree and appreciate the very thorough answer. Same here on culling and hope I don't leave anything out unfairly. ... Yeah, I guess the Godzilla metaphor isn't great. It certainly applies to some antags some of the time, and it describes an extreme of play that doesn't coexist well with Hous...

I said it in another thread, but I think balance-through-policy is sort of a cope. It's not necessarily bad if you can't deal with design issues, but it shouldn't be your go-to. in a well-balanced competitive game, the choice to start anticipating and preparing against threats from the word 'go' is ...

To be clear, the RP rules were partially redrafted with balance of power between crew and antags in mind. Restricting the crew allows the space to restrict antags and maintain the same proportion of balance between them. With the RP rules restricting the crew's ability to powergame and limiting ant...

Wow, that's a lot of words. tl;dr don't ask people to not play to win or powergame when the game is competitive, and if it's not going to be, set the expectation on both sides instead of skewing it against the people who didn't roll antag. It's one thing to let people take turns with the spotlight ...

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