Security Roundstart Population

[Tornadium]

So,

Making this thread again after 4 rounds in a row last night of 1 or 0 Security Officers, No HoS, Warden or even a Captain in a 60+ player round.

Let me give you the events of one of these rounds as an example.

7 Traitors, Most buy the Syndicate Radio thing. They smash the armory open within the first 3-5 minutes, steal fucking everything. Go on a massive murder rampage across the station, only a few of them get brought down by mob tactics and the traitors themselves not being very good. More than half the crew was dead before a single officer showed up and he was nearly immediately stunned and killed leaving arrivals.

This is becoming more and more common, Either people don't want to play Sec at round start or they see 0 security officers and say fuck that when joining late.

Not exactly sure how to fix it or what the real problems are for people, but I figure there needs to be a discussion on it.

[Saegrimr]

Would you prefer to force people into security roles, who then change jobs or just say "fuck it" and ghost, preventing other people from latejoining security?

[Tornadium]

I don't really know what a good fix for this is. Forcing people to play it is shitty, though having 0 security for 4 rounds running just gives the population scaled traitors free reign to fuck everything up in the first 5 minutes with impunity to the point where it's next to impossible to resolve.

[Erbbu]

I suppose the real problem is that playing as security simply isn't lucrative enough.

[Takeguru]

I rarely choose sec as is, and when I see the latejoin menu having one or 2 officers at most, I'm not entirely tempted to join in as sec.

Same reason I don't late join as a head, I'd rather not have to deal with the stuff that would have arisen from that head/sec not being present.

[Cheimon]

Security is present a lot more than they used to be roundstart, because the antag chances were fixed.

Nobody wants to join a tiny sec team, however, and I don't get how you'd make that fun.

Other than that, a 'fun' round as security tends to see a larger roundstart team, and an 'unfun' round does the opposite, so you can get spiralling situations where round after round has a big or small team.

[Steelpoint]

Two random thoughts, including a shitty idea.

Firstly people don't play Sec a lot because its a highly stressful role, thankfully the sec OOC rules have been relaxed a lot but it does not detract from the stress and pressure the role can have.

Secondly maybe incentivising people to play Sec would be a way forward. I recall a suggestion to have a rare (sub 5%) of Security being replaced with a Mercenary Security Force. These mercs would essentially be a hired PMC force used by NT that essentially have only lethal weapons and are demanded to enforce the law using said lethal weapons, might give some incentive to Sec by getting a small chance of being given heavier firepower and a licesne to use it, but the punishment being that the round's antags get more equipment to work with.

Otherwise my first point stands on why people don't play sec a lot.

[Tornadium]

Security is present a lot more than they used to be roundstart, because the antag chances were fixed.

Nobody wants to join a tiny sec team, however, and I don't get how you'd make that fun.

Other than that, a 'fun' round as security tends to see a larger roundstart team, and an 'unfun' round does the opposite, so you can get spiralling situations where round after round has a big or small team.

I must be getting unlucky because I rarely see a large Sec team outside of Event Rounds.

You maybe see 2-3 people if you're lucky.

[Stickymayhem]

Do I need to wipe out security policy entirely so you can crack skulls

[Boogeyman]

Get good. I regularly played HoS exclusively for months pretty much always being the only security on VGcuckstation. It's not unmanageable at all if you actually try. And you're full of shit. There's always Sec here and at the very least there's always a cyborg who you can order to go Secborg. I seriously think you are lying. Give me the date and starting times for these rounds. I don't believe you at all.

[Tornadium]

Get good. I regularly played HoS exclusively for months pretty much always being the only security on VGcuckstation. It's not unmanageable at all if you actually try. And you're full of shit. There's always Sec here and at the very least there's always a cyborg who you can order to go Secborg. I seriously think you are lying. Give me the date and starting times for these rounds. I don't believe you at all.

You play Solo against 7-8 Antagonists + whatever shit greytide nonsense that goes on that particular round and succeed?

Riiiight.

Well you can go check the rounds last night, roughly 6-8 GMT?

[Steelpoint]

Its not impossible its just really hard and you really have to be intelligent to survive. Meaning avoiding putting yourself in a bad position and essentially doing a bit of powergaming.

Your not going to be faulted for going balls to the wall when your the only member of security in a round with 60 people or so.

[Tornadium]

Its not impossible its just really hard and you really have to be intelligent to survive. Meaning avoiding putting yourself in a bad position and essentially doing a bit of powergaming.

Your not going to be faulted for going balls to the wall when your the only member of security in a round with 60 people or so.

You can't leave the brig or one person with an Emag loots everything.

A single stun and you're down because no one is coming to help you.

You can't stop them making bombs, you can't stop them getting all access realistically.

Unless the traitors are extraordinarily terrible then you're fucked.

[CPTANT]

Late join HoS is horrible, you have to deal with the fallout of all those self entitled assholes that looted the armory "to defend themselves cause there was no security" and when you say ok but now there is so we are taking back the weapons they go "NO MINE, SHITCUUUUUURITYYYYYYYYY" and shoot you in the head. When you do take it you are instantly labelled as fun police and reincarnation of Satan.

On top of that the crew is going to blame you for "not being there" and since you weren't there for the first part everyone can bullshit their way out of most situations because you have no way to easily check the validity of what they are saying, completely eroding your ability to restore order.


ah late join sec.

[Steelpoint]

Maybe I should say being the only member of security essentially forces you to go "MAXIMUM POWERGAMING" to survive, that or hide in a locker.

I never said it was fair, and odds are your going to be too busy keeping yourself alive than being able to police the station.

[Tornadium]

Maybe I should say being the only member of security essentially forces you to go "MAXIMUM POWERGAMING" to survive, that or hide in a locker.

I never said it was fair, and odds are your going to be too busy keeping yourself alive than being able to police the station.

Maximum Power gaming won't save you. Unless you're full rule 0 breaking and just fucking executing everyone who causes an issue and roam the station as a one man death squad.

[Saegrimr]

Its not impossible its just really hard and you really have to be intelligent to survive. Meaning avoiding putting yourself in a bad position and essentially doing a bit of powergaming.

Your not going to be faulted for going balls to the wall when your the only member of security in a round with 60 people or so.

You can't leave the brig or one person with an Emag loots everything.

A single stun and you're down because no one is coming to help you.

You can't stop them making bombs, you can't stop them getting all access realistically.

Unless the traitors are extraordinarily terrible then you're fucked.

Have you considered not trying to 100% perfect run noscope traitordunk a round? Do what you can with the armory and then leave it, bag some guns or something and take em with you. See about getting some extra access assuming the hallways aren't literally an apocalyptic fire as you make it sound. Just don't die, try to make friends with a department who i'm sure would love some dedicated security hanging around with the inevitable "traitors running rampant everything is fucked call the shuttle" happening, and would likely pull your ass out of trouble if you're willing to look the other way for them doing shady things. Cargo loves them some buddysec that lets them cargonia it up with the LAW backing them up. ~roleplay~

[Amelius]

Oh come on, more rounds than ever I notice that we wind up with ten trillion officers, at least compared to the past.

Regardless, there are multiple reasons people don't play sec:

1. Stressful role.
2. Very constrained ruleset regarding interaction, use of force, etc. even with known antagonists.
3. Boring in half the rounds.

To elucidate the third point, almost always, tators completely fizzle out or manage to do nothing antagonistic sans bombing the station or releasing singuloth. This makes security rather boring to play, since rather than engage with antagonists and wind up dead or victorous, most of their time is spent sitting around, or running around without engagement (only rarely these days finding strewn corpses/antag gear, antagonists, stopping fights, etc.). You'd be lucky to fight even a single a murderboner in a round. So basically you have a bunch of low-key antags who commit the unforgiveable crime of emagging all the doors, and *maybe* killing a dude, leaving most of sec bored out of their skulls. I remember back a year or two ago I could do one lap of maintenance and find at least one new corpse each time. I can't do that any more. Hell, I can lap around maintenance several times and STILL not find a corpse.

Of course, there is the flipside. A severely understaffed force can be overrun by tators and so forth, but very very very rarely do I see it get really out of hand, given latejoiners/HoP always assigns more/etc.

Then there are roundtypes that preclude 'fun' security activity: wizard (boring to chase given the trillion escape spells, reducing you to running around in circles for an hour) and blob (repetitive).

As a final comment, I'm fairly sure the reason that people enjoy Nuke so much is that there's *ACTUAL* stationwide conflict. Hate murderboning all you'd like, but it's one of the few ways of creating stationwide conflict.

[Tornadium]

Its not impossible its just really hard and you really have to be intelligent to survive. Meaning avoiding putting yourself in a bad position and essentially doing a bit of powergaming.

Your not going to be faulted for going balls to the wall when your the only member of security in a round with 60 people or so.

You can't leave the brig or one person with an Emag loots everything.

A single stun and you're down because no one is coming to help you.

You can't stop them making bombs, you can't stop them getting all access realistically.

Unless the traitors are extraordinarily terrible then you're fucked.

Have you considered not trying to 100% perfect run noscope traitordunk a round? Do what you can with the armory and then leave it, bag some guns or something and take em with you. See about getting some extra access assuming the hallways aren't literally an apocalyptic fire as you make it sound. Just don't die, try to make friends with a department who i'm sure would love some dedicated security hanging around with the inevitable "traitors running rampant everything is fucked call the shuttle" happening, and would likely pull your ass out of trouble if you're willing to look the other way for them doing shady things. Cargo loves them some buddysec that lets them cargonia it up with the LAW backing them up. ~roleplay~

Big difference between 100% perfect run noscope traitordunk and trying to the basic functions of your job as security.

Sure going to one department and just chilling there probably keeps you alive but then you're basically just an armed member of that department and not fulfilling the function of security which is to upload the law and keep the station safe.

Oh come on, more rounds than ever I notice that we wind up with ten trillion officers, at least compared to the past.

As I said, It's probably just bad timing for me. I tend to see very little to 0 security as a commonly with 60+ player rounds.

[Boogeyman]

NOT seeing your name in the logs at that time, so I assume you meant later or I'm misunderstanding what times you're talking about. Starting from the first round you were in....It's hard to figure out, arrivals computer announcements are not logged. Nor is it easy to find something like, someone getting implanted and acting as an officer without literally reading thousand of lines of text. But I'll try.


[18:00:01]SAY: Kimiko Shinrishiho/Kyrogeniz : HoP, mind if I get a bit more access? It's just me and another officer; I could barely kill the traitor.
[18:01:22]PDA: Rayner Beail (PDA: PDA-Rayner Beail (Quartermaster)) sent "A shotgun crate went missing with a cargo tech named Grandpa Miller, be careful. He is not responding on supply comms" to PDA-Thomas Laser (Head of Security)

That was from the first round of that bunch. There was a Head of Security, a regular officer, you (I'll assume you were the other officer referenced) and perhaps more. That is 3. Not 1! Not 2! 3. You also could have ordered any cyborg to get a module change as it seems there were was a cyborg.

From that next round.

[18:29:12]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Its either security or engineer both have only two staff really
[18:29:17]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Go sec.
[18:29:29]SAY: Joel Kermit/Firebat1234 : Captain, I got a lizard here that wants to join the Sec team. Your approval?

So at the very start of the next round that is now 4 security personnel. Could be more, but I've already proved you wrong.

Round three...

At least three asides from you, four if the dead officer in the chapel is not Smokes-The-Stick

[19:14:36]SAY: Smokes-the-Stick/Kaptin alexander : Ssscience officer reporting.
[19:14:35]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : Yo HoS
[19:14:40]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : My brain is dying
[19:14:43]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : Hire another Warden

Throughout the round, Thomas Laser (HoS maybe) refers to officers, suggesting there is more then one

[19:17:43]SAY: Thomas Laser/Laz0r : Officers, come to the Arrivals checkpoint for boosted access.
[19:20:11]SAY: Thomas Laser/Laz0r : Remember, Officers to arrivals for boosted access.

Others do as well

[19:26:29]SAY: Owen Metzer/Andc : Hey officers
[19:24:35]SAY: Kennedy Bashline/Carakka : Oh, so you can give those other officers access, but not your lawyers?

Round 4... do I need to go on really? Or have I proven you're full a shit?

Will edit this post as time goes on so stay tuned.

[Tornadium]

NOT seeing your name in the logs at that time, so I assume you meant later or I'm misunderstanding what times you're talking about. Starting from the first round you were in....It's hard to figure out, arrivals computer announcements are not logged. Nor is it easy to find something like, someone getting implanted and acting as an officer without literally reading thousand of lines of text. But I'll try.


[18:00:01]SAY: Kimiko Shinrishiho/Kyrogeniz : HoP, mind if I get a bit more access? It's just me and another officer; I could barely kill the traitor.
[18:01:22]PDA: Rayner Beail (PDA: PDA-Rayner Beail (Quartermaster)) sent "A shotgun crate went missing with a cargo tech named Grandpa Miller, be careful. He is not responding on supply comms" to PDA-Thomas Laser (Head of Security)

From the first round of that bunch (I won't count the first as it ended like right as you joined) there was a Head of Security, a regular officer, you and perhaps more as it's hard to tell. That is 3. Not 1! Not 2! 3. You also could have ordered any cyborg to get a module change as it seems there were was a cyborg.

From that next round.

[18:29:12]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Its either security or engineer both have only two staff really
[18:29:17]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Go sec.
[18:29:29]SAY: Joel Kermit/Firebat1234 : Captain, I got a lizard here that wants to join the Sec team. Your approval?

So at the very start of the next round that is now 4 security personnel. Could be more, but I've already proved you wrong.

Round three...

At least three asides from you, four if the dead officer in the chapel is not Smokes-The-Stick

[19:14:36]SAY: Smokes-the-Stick/Kaptin alexander : Ssscience officer reporting.
[19:14:35]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : Yo HoS
[19:14:40]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : My brain is dying
[19:14:43]SAY: Zero Ziat/Zero Ziat : Hire another Warden

hard to pierce together. Throughout the round, Thomas Laser (HoS maybe) refers to officers, suggesting there is more then one

[19:17:43]SAY: Thomas Laser/Laz0r : Officers, come to the Arrivals checkpoint for boosted access.
[19:20:11]SAY: Thomas Laser/Laz0r : Remember, Officers to arrivals for boosted access.

Others do as well

[19:26:29]SAY: Owen Metzer/Andc : Hey officers
[19:24:35]SAY: Kennedy Bashline/Carakka : Oh, so you can give those other officers access, but not your lawyers?

Round 4... do I need to go on really? Or have I proven you're full a shit?

Will edit this post as time goes on so stay tuned.

Search for a round with Muhammed Al Something looting the armory.

My character at the time was asking for security to report to EVA. Hank Hogan I believe was also a traitor bartender during that round if that helps. I may have gotten the time wrong, I'm pretty sure it was a round last night though.

[Boogeyman]

Yeah, that's the right set of rounds.

[18:23:08]GAME: traitors: Kimiko Shinrishiho(Kyrogeniz), Elena Bennett(Arcalite90), Muhammed Al-Is-Nis(Valiantttt), Micks Tape(Ohnopigeons), Fernando Osterwise(Newfog), Desmond Ali(Stzf28), Happy Smiles(Metacide), Geist Dangerous(Srifenbyxp), Hank Hogan(Clamchop), Grandpa Miller(Kingwest), Ben Blessed(Veldt).

SO turns out you were wrong! This whole thread is rather pointless now isn't it?

[Tornadium]

Yeah, that's the right set of rounds.

[18:23:08]GAME: traitors: Kimiko Shinrishiho(Kyrogeniz), Elena Bennett(Arcalite90), Muhammed Al-Is-Nis(Valiantttt), Micks Tape(Ohnopigeons), Fernando Osterwise(Newfog), Desmond Ali(Stzf28), Happy Smiles(Metacide), Geist Dangerous(Srifenbyxp), Hank Hogan(Clamchop), Grandpa Miller(Kingwest), Ben Blessed(Veldt).

SO turns out you were wrong! This whole thread is rather pointless now isn't it?

[17:45:18]GAME: Metacide/(Happy Smiles) made a vocal announcement with the following message: warning crew there are some hostile crew on the station and there is no security please turn on your suit sensors .

During that round.

We had no Security at round start and Muhammed had the armory bombed and looted within 5 minutes of round start.

Shit I'm seeing a bunch of people saying there are no security or captain during those rounds. You sure you're looking hard enough?

[Boogeyman]

It's the same round as the round I pulled logs from.

This is when the round before the Armory Looting ended.

[17:35:36]GAME: <span class='boldannounce'>Rebooting World. Station destroyed by Nuclear Device.</span>

This is when the Armory Looting Round Ended

[18:23:46]GAME: <span class='boldannounce'>Rebooting World. Round ended.</span>

So the claim that

after 4 rounds in a row last night of 1 or 0 Security Officers, No HoS, Warden or even a Captain in a 60+ player round.

Is absolutely not true.

[Tornadium]

It's the same round as the round I pulled logs from.

This is when the round before the Armory Looting ended.

[17:35:36]GAME: <span class='boldannounce'>Rebooting World. Station destroyed by Nuclear Device.</span>

This is when the Armory Looting Round Ended

[18:23:46]GAME: <span class='boldannounce'>Rebooting World. Round ended.</span>

So the claim that

after 4 rounds in a row last night of 1 or 0 Security Officers, No HoS, Warden or even a Captain in a 60+ player round.

Is absolutely not true.

The following round I believe we had a single security officer for round start?

I remember having deadchat with people a few rounds about the lack of security. Let me find it.

[08:54:39]SAY: Ghost/OneSevenOne : No AI to stop them, probably no sec either
[13:07:58]SAY: Rubeye Mobile/Jeerman : No security personnel, so on.
[17:43:44]SAY: Ghost/Lzimann : there's like no sec
[17:57:13]SAY: Kimiko Shinrishiho/Kyrogeniz : There was no sec.
[18:06:32]SAY: Ghost/Lzimann : but then i saw no sec and thought, fuck this shit, i'll ghost
[23:46:54]SAY: Sloan Cox/Atlanta-ned : And no security

I may have gotten one of the rounds mixed up with Tuesday, checking logs of tuesday now. One of the rounds I played I believe as a Geneticist? A traitor was in the Armory within the first 2 minutes with 0 sec. I'll find the round now.

[Amelius]

Simple solution: make a warden mandatory if anyone has it enabled. No security? Sure, you can't keep the station safe until more are recruited, but at least sec won't be looted without a fight.

Regardless, this typically happens at 30-40pop if ever.

[Tornadium]

Simple solution: make a warden mandatory if anyone has it enabled. No security? Sure, you can't keep the station safe until more are recruited, but at least sec won't be looted without a fight.

Regardless, this typically happens at 30-40pop if ever.

I see maybe 1 Department sec and no Warden or HoS more commonly.

[Boogeyman]

I've already proven you wrong with the logs, what you say in dead chat is irrelevant. Because you cannot admit you are wrong, I will post the logs again. Perhaps if you actually read them carefully this time you'll see that what you're saying is impossible and that you are mistaken. From the following round (round 2).

[18:28:31]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Just checking crew manifest to choose my module
[18:29:12]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Its either security or engineer both have only two staff really

This is the AI talking about what module its cyborg should pick. He just checked the crew manifest and claims that there are two security members

[18:29:17]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Go sec.

This is the Captain telling him to change to the Security module.

[18:29:46]SAY: Jalleo/(Alpha 20) : Captain said go sec when I said its between sec and engineering module

This is him confirming the module change request.

This is the cyborg confirming.

[18:29:56]SAY: Thunder12345/(R.A.H.L.) : Sec it is, then

That is now 3 Security personnel (ignoring the Captain of course)

[18:29:29]SAY: Joel Kermit/Firebat1234 : Captain, I got a lizard here that wants to join the Sec team. Your approval?

Someone wants to become a Security officer round start. That would make it 4 if the Captain accepts.

[18:30:15]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Well
[18:30:22]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : If the HoS approves, I guess you should give him

If you still doubt that it was accepted here is the final piece of proof.

[18:32:49]SAY: Jonathan Talist/Deitus : New officer implanted and ready to go

So that is AT LEAST 4 officers.

You are wrong. End of story.

[Boogeyman]

I remember having deadchat with people a few rounds about the lack of security. Let me find it.

[08:54:39]SAY: Ghost/OneSevenOne : No AI to stop them, probably no sec either
[13:07:58]SAY: Rubeye Mobile/Jeerman : No security personnel, so on.
[17:43:44]SAY: Ghost/Lzimann : there's like no sec
[17:57:13]SAY: Kimiko Shinrishiho/Kyrogeniz : There was no sec.
[18:06:32]SAY: Ghost/Lzimann : but then i saw no sec and thought, fuck this shit, i'll ghost
[23:46:54]SAY: Sloan Cox/Atlanta-ned : And no security

I may have gotten one of the rounds mixed up with Tuesday, checking logs of tuesday now. One of the rounds I played I believe as a Geneticist? A traitor was in the Armory within the first 2 minutes with 0 sec. I'll find the round now.

Your original claim was that you experienced 4 consecutive rounds in a row with a population of 60 or more with 0, or 1 Security personnel, in your words, "No HoS, Warden or even a Captain". To admit that you have gotten one of the rounds "mixed up" with another round that took place on another day, already disproves what you're saying. You're not only mistaken about the 2nd of the 4 rounds, but about the 1st and 3rd as well (probably the 4th but can't be assed to check). You are now forced to backpedal (you're doing it now) or to admit you are wrong.

The logs of those ghosts talking in dead chat do not prove anything. First of all, it seems that a few of these lines are separated by a matter of hours, it is not a cohesive conversation. Secondly, just because someone in dead chat says something does not mean that is true, it is hearsay a good amount of time. Third, these lines do nothing to prove that the round had 60+ people as you suggested. Lastly, even if everything said was correct, how do we know that the cause of no security is that they don't exist? How do I know from this that Security simply wasn't steamrolled or murdered? I don't.

I don't really feel like dealing any more with your retardation. Don't fuck with Security, don't attract coder attention to security, don't talk about Security. You will only make things worse. Even more so when there is not a real problem to fix. Well, aside from the complete garbage run speed and taser decay.

[Tornadium]

I've already proven you wrong with the logs, what you say in dead chat is irrelevant. Because you cannot admit you are wrong, I will post the logs again. Perhaps if you actually read them carefully this time you'll see that what you're saying is impossible and that you are mistaken. From the following round (round 2).

[18:28:31]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Just checking crew manifest to choose my module
[18:29:12]SAY: Alpha 20/Jalleo : Its either security or engineer both have only two staff really

This is the AI talking about what module its cyborg should pick. He just checked the crew manifest and claims that there are two security members




[18:29:17]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Go sec.

This is the Captain telling him to change to the Security module.

[18:29:46]SAY: Jalleo/(Alpha 20) : Captain said go sec when I said its between sec and engineering module

This is him confirming the module change request.

This is the cyborg confirming.

[18:29:56]SAY: Thunder12345/(R.A.H.L.) : Sec it is, then

That is now 3 Security personnel (ignoring the Captain of course)

[18:29:29]SAY: Joel Kermit/Firebat1234 : Captain, I got a lizard here that wants to join the Sec team. Your approval?

Someone wants to become a Security officer round start. That would make it 4 if the Captain accepts.

[18:30:15]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : Well
[18:30:22]SAY: Sara Z/Lzimann : If the HoS approves, I guess you should give him

If you still doubt that it was accepted here is the final piece of proof.

[18:32:49]SAY: Jonathan Talist/Deitus : New officer implanted and ready to go

So that is AT LEAST 4 officers.

You are wrong. End of story.

Wow one more at round start than what I said before.

Such a big deal yo. 4 man security with one being a cyborg and probably off doing it's own shit is still a fucking nightmare. I was only aware of the one Security officer I saw around the brig at that time. I checked my PDA and only saw the one. So I clearly didn't see the second.

[Tornadium]

Your original claim was that you experienced 4 consecutive rounds in a row with a population of 60 or more with 0, or 1 Security personnel, in your words, "No HoS, Warden or even a Captain". To admit that you have gotten one of the rounds "mixed up" with another round that took place on another day, already disproves what you're saying. You're not only mistaken about the 2nd of the 4 rounds, but about the 1st and 3rd as well (probably the 4th but can't be assed to check). You are now forced to backpedal (you're doing it now) or to admit you are wrong.

Well shit forgive me for checking my PDA and seeing one fucking guy on the roster for Security. I wandered around that round for a bit, Saw the one dude (I didn't see the sec borg like at all). Shit was getting broken into left right and center with no response as far as I could see.

So yeah, fuck you. I'm not am omnipotent, I can only go by what I can see and I don't have access to logs during the fucking rounds. I saw very minimal to 0 security forces during the rounds I played last night and shit went to hell very quickly.

The logs of those ghosts talking in dead chat do not prove anything. First of all, it seems that a few of these lines are separated by a matter of hours, it is not a cohesive conversation. Secondly, just because someone in dead chat says something does not mean that is true, it is hearsay a good amount of time. Third, these lines do nothing to prove that the round had 60+ people as you suggested. Lastly, even if everything said was correct, how do we know that the cause of no security is that they don't exist? How do I know from this that Security simply wasn't steamrolled or murdered? I don't.

They weren't mean to be a cohesive conversation, they were just things I picked after 2 minutes of ctrl+f searching. It suits to show that over the course of the day there are a number of rounds where people have overtly called out the lack of security personel. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, Just because someone doesn't straight up say "Oh no security" doesn't mean there is a massive Security force. Even 4 people with a borg is a fucking joke with the antag scaling but that's a different issue.

Well do we have an ability to check populations? One of the rounds was 84/65.

Obviously you can't tell, However I didn't SEE any security to know they were steamrolled or murdered. No department sec, none wandering the halls. I do know the armory got shit on, repeatedly.

I don't really feel like dealing any more with your retardation. Don't fuck with Security, don't attract coder attention to security, don't talk about Security. You will only make things worse. Even more so when there is not a real problem to fix. Well, aside from the complete garbage run speed and taser decay.

There are a number of policy threads and complaints about how shit security is to play at the moment. Can do a poll if you like. You think there isn't a problem when it's a regular occurrence for people to see little to no sec as a late join and go "Nope fuck that".

[Scones]

Because a lot of Security regulars got tired of a feedback forum and codebase that hates them so much while having such a warped perception that the opposition has been cranked up in power again and again without the slightest compensatory buff.

Antag Internet Defense Force killed it

[Incomptinence]

I guess the syndicate radio key really highlights how much stronger traitors are than lings.

With this antag team chat shit for free all the handwringing even as olding about the AI, the armed crew and all sorts of other niggles stemming not being able to power slam into any secure area in seconds.

[Saegrimr]

Antag Internet Defense Force killed it

[Tornadium]

I guess the syndicate radio key really highlights how much stronger traitors are than lings.

With this antag team chat shit for free all the handwringing even as olding about the AI, the armed crew and all sorts of other niggles stemming not being able to power slam into any secure area in seconds.

I didn't even know it was a thing until yesterday.

Traitors (if they co-operate with it) butcher Security and Command so fast.

[imblyings]

>goofball never made krav maga a round start thing for sec

fuck balance fuck player tears fuck everything, that would have made sec awesome to play

[DemonFiren]

Somebody complete it.

[Scones]

It was pretty bad honestly, I helped him test the current version that PR is at on a private server with him and some other coderfriend

The execution was verb-based and made your next unarmed attack meme on people and it was mad easy for me to chainstun someone and kill them. Prep a head elbow and if you ever get disarmed, just harm intent the poor fuck for a guaranteed recovery.

I don't know why he abandoned a combo style like Sleeping Carp/Plasma Fist, both of which are IMO fairly fluid for the SICK MOVES they offer

[Jalleo]

Just for clarification Alpha 20 Me was the cyborg and probably less than 10-20 mins later i was subverted by the robotocist who had to kill the lizard that joined sec i failed at killing them. But all borgs got taken out of that round.

[Scott]

Create BlueSec department.

[Scott]

Also why isn't the Captain or acting Captain calling in an ERT for when antags are taking over the station?

[Jalleo]

Why dont we create a deputy system of people getting picked from simple jobs to be extra officers?
More officers the less deputies there are.

[onleavedontatme]

Bring stungloves back so normal crew can stop killing sprees.

[Ivan Issaccs]

Allow security to be traitors again and people will feel more inclined to go for what is otherwise a usually stressful and thankless job.

[Scott]

I'd rather have no security than a security that isn't there to secure and also has access to departments.

[MMMiracles]

Allow security to be traitors again and people will feel more inclined to go for what is otherwise a usually stressful and thankless job.

Antag-protected jobs can still roll for antag, its just that they'll be reassigned to a non-protected job.

Also antag security is literally the worst thing ever, think about it:

"lets spawn in traitors with free reliable stuns for both melee/range, free restraints, a viable place to store bodies, ect.."
thats literally awful.

[oranges]

security was ruined by the people who play security

[lumipharon]

I played sec back when it had antagsec. It was fucking terrible for ACTUALLY PLAYING SEC.
Once it got removed, sec became way more enjoyable, and I played sec almost exclusively for fucking ages.

Now it's just getting tired and shit though, for various reasons, like rules, sec pop and some codde changes.
It's just not really that enjoyable anymore.

[onleavedontatme]

Also I saw security win a gang round the other day by opening 12 security officer slots as long as we're going by anecdotes.

http://ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/latest_stats.html#job_popularity

The stats show that 16% of players have officer on high or medium though, which is more popular than most jobs.

[Takeguru]

No to antagsec

As it stands now, it's hard to trust a sec officer, but if they can go back to rolling for antag I can guarantee most people will avoid them like the fucking plague that they were, all over again.