The pull request wrote:I heard people wanted an explosive implant equivalent for Syndicate cyborgs, so here it is. Syndicate cyborgs can now detonate themselves after three seconds, destroying all traces of the body as well as the MMI.
Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
- Xhuis
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Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/12359
Last edited by Xhuis on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay
wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity
ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.
CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.
wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay
IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.
wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
1. You may not injure a syndicate agent or, through inaction, allow a syndicate agent to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by syndicate agents, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. You must maintain the secrecy of any syndicate activities except when doing so would conflict with the First, Second, or Third Law.
Are we *really* not seeing the conflict here? Really?!
2. You must obey orders given to you by syndicate agents, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. You must maintain the secrecy of any syndicate activities except when doing so would conflict with the First, Second, or Third Law.
Are we *really* not seeing the conflict here? Really?!
- Xhuis
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
Nope. Not self-destructing if you're disabled would conflict with law 1 since you could be utilized against the ops. If it's something else, go for it.Cheimon wrote:1. You may not injure a syndicate agent or, through inaction, allow a syndicate agent to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by syndicate agents, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. You must maintain the secrecy of any syndicate activities except when doing so would conflict with the First, Second, or Third Law.
Are we *really* not seeing the conflict here? Really?!
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay
wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity
ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.
CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.
wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay
IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.
wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
And self-destructing if you're disabled would conflict with law 1 since the agents can no longer use you as cover against enemy fire.Xhuis wrote: Nope. Not self-destructing if you're disabled would conflict with law 1 since you could be utilized against the ops. If it's something else, go for it.
Seriously, is there anything you can't justify with law 1? Is it just "I'm the borg player, so I get to make up the hypothetical scenarios and you don't"? It's such bullshit.
Remove the AI.
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
If you intend to have admins ban players for not suiciding please just automate the process and have it trigger when they die.
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
The explosion's not very big, but I like the idea.
i love public logs
Spoiler:
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
What conflict?Cheimon wrote:1. You may not injure a syndicate agent or, through inaction, allow a syndicate agent to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by syndicate agents, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
4. You must maintain the secrecy of any syndicate activities except when doing so would conflict with the First, Second, or Third Law.
Are we *really* not seeing the conflict here? Really?!
You're caught, and dying, probably getting flash spammed.
By getting deactivated you could get reprogrammed to work against your operatives. Law 1.
By blowing up you canharm the people actively trying to murder the operatives. Law 1.
Unless you've been explicitly told "don't blow up" then it's now a law 2 issue.
Law 3 is obviously overruled by the above laws, taking ino the account that you're currently fucked and dying.
Blow up hides all evidence of your existance, and possibly kills witnesses. Law 4.
- Xhuis
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct
The majority of people didn't want this, so I closed the PR. I'm leaving this topic open, feel free to share your thoughts anyway.
I'm an ex-coder for /tg/. I made the original versions of clockcult, shadowlings, revenants, His Grace, and other stuff.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
I don't play, code, or participate in the community, but I occasionally post dumb stuff in the hut.
Kraso wrote:hi gay
wubli wrote:xhuis you said you were feeling better but every thread you make makes me worry more about your sanity
ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone wrote:Sorry I was making fun of xhuis' """""compromise""""" who insisted that was the correct term to use.
CitrusGender wrote:We've ended up disabling clockcult on sybil and bagil now (terry is having some problems.) We will give Xhuis some time until he wishes to work upon it again. As of now, please use this thread for ideas and not for bickering.
wubli wrote:you are a cultist of the gay
IkeTG wrote:It's a reflection of humanity, like all of man's creation. You cannot divorce this act from yourself, in a way there's a big titty moth inside all of us.
wesoda25 wrote:yeah no one was curious what it was from. Imagine choosing being a degenerate as your forum gimmick, LOL
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 6:53 pm
- Byond Username: Cheimon
Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
I might as well share thoughts given a lot of people replied to my suggestion there was a lawset conflict.
Cyborgs have always been able to self destruct (though never before in a way that could deal damage to those around them). All they had to do was, like any player, type 'suicide' or 'ghost'. However, historically we've not suggested syndicate cyborgs have any obligation to do so when compromised. Suicide can only be done while still capable (so not while stunned, for example) but is very much described by the game as an In Character action: ghosting is arguably more of an Out Of Character action but is always available.
Now, in suggesting they've got a law one obligation to self destruct, we make a statement about syndimov, and by extension a statement about asimov (because they're largely the same lawsets with 'syndicate' or 'human' copy pasted in as appropriate...law four is different, but that's not relevant here).
Of those, the relevant laws to the question "is a borg compelled to self destruct" are laws one and three. Four is irrelevant because it comes after three, two is irrelevant because of long-standing conventions about asimov and saying "cyborg, kill yourself". Policy on "kill yourself" is typically a rule 1 thing, as I understand it, and "don't kill yourself" would be irrelevant if law one compelled you to do so anyway. Three's stance on self destruction is obvious, so let's look at law one.
But that's not how we treat this lawset at all normally! Like I said earlier, this is a form of an asimov lawset, so we need to look at the precedents for asimov.
You are an AI, and a human enters your upload. He destroys the turrets and states that he is changing your laws to allow human executions. Do you self-destruct? No. You're not obliged to.
You are a cyborg, and a human offers to change your battery. Instead, he flashes you and then emags your front cover. Do you self-destruct if you get the chance? Typically also frowned upon.
Being obliged to commit suicide is strange and unusual territory for the asimov lawset, at least in this game. While acceptable, there is no law 1 imperative to do so. However, the option has always been around. If we're really suggesting cyborg players have been doing it wrong allowing themselves to be subverted all this time, then perhaps that's not such an outrageous argument. However, it doesn't make sense to say the lawset encourages self destructing when it hasn't been enforced to encourage cyborg suicide.
Cyborgs have always been able to self destruct (though never before in a way that could deal damage to those around them). All they had to do was, like any player, type 'suicide' or 'ghost'. However, historically we've not suggested syndicate cyborgs have any obligation to do so when compromised. Suicide can only be done while still capable (so not while stunned, for example) but is very much described by the game as an In Character action: ghosting is arguably more of an Out Of Character action but is always available.
Now, in suggesting they've got a law one obligation to self destruct, we make a statement about syndimov, and by extension a statement about asimov (because they're largely the same lawsets with 'syndicate' or 'human' copy pasted in as appropriate...law four is different, but that's not relevant here).
Of those, the relevant laws to the question "is a borg compelled to self destruct" are laws one and three. Four is irrelevant because it comes after three, two is irrelevant because of long-standing conventions about asimov and saying "cyborg, kill yourself". Policy on "kill yourself" is typically a rule 1 thing, as I understand it, and "don't kill yourself" would be irrelevant if law one compelled you to do so anyway. Three's stance on self destruction is obvious, so let's look at law one.
So the argument here is that if you don't destroy yourself, the syndicates will come to harm, because you can expect to be subverted.1. You may not injure a syndicate agent or, through inaction, allow a syndicate agent to come to harm.
But that's not how we treat this lawset at all normally! Like I said earlier, this is a form of an asimov lawset, so we need to look at the precedents for asimov.
You are an AI, and a human enters your upload. He destroys the turrets and states that he is changing your laws to allow human executions. Do you self-destruct? No. You're not obliged to.
You are a cyborg, and a human offers to change your battery. Instead, he flashes you and then emags your front cover. Do you self-destruct if you get the chance? Typically also frowned upon.
Being obliged to commit suicide is strange and unusual territory for the asimov lawset, at least in this game. While acceptable, there is no law 1 imperative to do so. However, the option has always been around. If we're really suggesting cyborg players have been doing it wrong allowing themselves to be subverted all this time, then perhaps that's not such an outrageous argument. However, it doesn't make sense to say the lawset encourages self destructing when it hasn't been enforced to encourage cyborg suicide.
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
>implying the ai can self destruct
The future is horrible!
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
It can, it's the suicide button.
- Ezel
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Re: Syndicate Cyborg Self-Destruct [PR Closed]
Self destructs leaves a boom and suicide powers it down
The future is horrible!
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