A lot of modes are disabled (but do they suck?)

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:23 am #149055

As far as I know these three modes work fine, but for whatever reason are currently disabled (at least on sybil). I've added Malfunction and OldCult to the list not because they're runnable, but rather just as a gauge of if you enjoyed them. I've not included Hand of God because as far as I know it's dead in the water.

Do you miss them?
Do you want them back? If not, why?

TechnoAlchemist · Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:27 am

Old cult was fine, I'm pretty sure Zilenan just whined cult into its broken state.

Jazaen · Post by **Jazaen** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:27 am #149058

Wait, they are disabled? How? WHY?

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:28 am #149059

I miss all the Cult modes.
Cult was my favorite, because unlike other conversion modes, you gained something.
Also, constructs are my favorite antagonist, because they're cool

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:43 am #149063

You bet your ass I whined about cult. It made me straight up not want to play the game at all it was so shit. It was a lot better, but not good, after TK fixed it.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:13 am #149069

the "fix" made it into unplayable garbage though. It's not some coincidence it got removed from rotation soon after that.

Incomptinence · Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:13 am

Oldcult was alright flexible, not dependent on rng fairy to even get started.

Traitorchan is still on basil though, while being unable to stand on their own merits means changelings are basically on life support it can be fun. Mulligan can make them too I think? Their objectives are more doable from a good job positions (making new ID hello the new brainsteal but for hops this tiiiime) but the absorb one it pretty token.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:29 am #149084

mulligans can only make changelings if changeling or traitorchan are in rotation. Right now on sybil there's no way to have a changeling in a round beyond extreme xenobio shenanigans.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:50 am #149087

Zilenan91 wrote:You bet your ass I whined about cult. It made me straight up not want to play the game at all it was so shit. It was a lot better, but not good, after TK fixed it.

Sounds like the problem was you, not the mode. Cult was a great mode that gave people incentive to work together, as well as allowing for a team antag that had a number of different abilities and strategies they could use.

I guess some people just can't be bothered to do a little trial and error to get their best toys and demand they get all the best stuff upfront.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:06 pm #149121

I miss proper Malf, myself. I do like Traitor AI, but I still miss the full mode....I also miss oldcult, which brought much more fun than this COps (Cult Nuke Ops) setup.

I do not care for Changelings, but they are okay when added to other, stronger antagonists such as Traitors.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:20 pm #149125

They probably did suck but what we have now sucks for different reasons

At least some variation would spice up the rounds

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:40 pm #149129

Lings still have not had the rework they need. If they get reworked properly for once it is a good antag.

Lings still be progression based, start out weak and gain power by absorbing people. The entire concept is crippled when absorbing people is as useless as it is now.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:17 pm #149137

find the pull that reworked them to the state they're currently in
revert it

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:55 pm #149204

Newcult had elements that I liked, but then Zil went full retard with "magic ops." Take oldcult, add in the summoning ritual, and it's good. I would rather have oldcult with its issues than the bastardized mess that is newcult.

onleavedontatme · Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:06 pm

If I am reading this poll correctly not a single one of these modes had more than ~30% of people asking for it back.

I sometimes wonder if we took a straight vote on each mode how many (if any) would make the cut.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:09 pm #149210

Total votes are not the same as total voters.

Total votes literally adds up every vote from every choice.

So basically, this poll is only good to gauge relative popularity, not if the modes are popular themselves.

onleavedontatme · Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:18 pm

Huh. My bad. Maybe this should be a server poll so we can get better data.

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:23 am

i wish coderbus would get it's hands off of it's changeling hate-erection
also i'm shocked that anybody could want malf back, it honestly was not very fun after the first maybe 3 times i played it and we basically still have it, just with traitor AIs

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:00 am #149296

to be clear the changeling rounds are just disabled on the server side, so it's actually closer to an adminbus hate-erection

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:28 am #149314

PKPenguin321 wrote:also i'm shocked that anybody could want malf back, it honestly was not very fun after the first maybe 3 times i played it and we basically still have it, just with traitor AIs

It was good because it was a round type where "nothing happens for the first 20 minutes". Now the only options are Shadowlings, which usually get spotted, or nuke ops.
Traitors show gear at some point, and the rest of the modes are obvious

Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:55 am

Helios wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:also i'm shocked that anybody could want malf back, it honestly was not very fun after the first maybe 3 times i played it and we basically still have it, just with traitor AIs
It was good because it was a round type where "nothing happens for the first 20 minutes". Now the only options are Shadowlings, which usually get spotted, or nuke ops.
Traitors show gear at some point, and the rest of the modes are obvious

yeah, pseudo-extended until the 40~ minute mark where the AI goes loud and either spaghettis all over the place or gets killed by the three guys with enough gear to take it on
not very fun

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:01 am #149343

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Helios wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:also i'm shocked that anybody could want malf back, it honestly was not very fun after the first maybe 3 times i played it and we basically still have it, just with traitor AIs
It was good because it was a round type where "nothing happens for the first 20 minutes". Now the only options are Shadowlings, which usually get spotted, or nuke ops.
Traitors show gear at some point, and the rest of the modes are obvious
yeah, pseudo-extended until the 40~ minute mark where the AI goes loud and either spaghettis all over the place or gets killed by the three guys with enough gear to take it on
not very fun

Pseudo Extended is fun for a lot of jobs
Like mining
Or botany
Or genetics
or chemistry if the people are creative

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:05 am #149344

It is fun for a lot of jobs. For like one round. I genuinely don't know how people can do R&D so many rounds in a row. It's literally autism.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:30 am #149350

The actually getting R&D up is boring and tedious.
Using R&D to make a flying autism fort out of the white ship/secret space bar/etc is not.

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:16 am #149363

Zilenan91 wrote:It is fun for a lot of jobs. For like one round. I genuinely don't know how people can do R&D so many rounds in a row. It's literally autism.

Because it sets a base level.
The problem with R&D is once you set it up, you don't have a chance to enjoy the fruits of your labor unless the round lasts longer. A long round or two where nothing happens, then you have 20 ripleys break into the AI core and people feel satisfied so they can go home.

Babin · Post by **Babin** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:21 am #149372

Old cult had a lot of problems, but it should've just had runes streamlined a bit to be more newbie-friendly. No need to turn it into magic ops.

Pseudo-extended is fun once in a while as long as it's not super-common, and malf rounds could be pretty fun. Every once in a while you'd get a REALLY clever stealth-malf.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:20 am #149376

Traitor AIs are superior to malf in basically every way imo
Being able to get more than a 100 cycles means you can actually have a more varied strategy and buy the lesser used modules (Though I still haven't had a chance at using mech domination), and it means there's something going on in the round beside being pseudo-extended.

I remember suggesting malf AIs having the ability to spend all 100 of their modules on a Syndie strike team with the goal of assisting the AI to make people think it was OPs and distract the crew with the armed goons. But with traitormalf AIs that would be too powerful.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:32 pm #149401

What I really like about the new traitor AI is that it's objectives aren't "blow up the station" every time.

That was what made malf stale and predictable.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:33 pm #149410

What if Malf was changed to kill/borg all humans? Any of the murderbone techniques could be used and nuking the station would just be the last resort.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:52 pm #149412

PKPenguin321 wrote:i wish coderbus would get it's hands off of it's changeling hate-erection

I was adminning on basil, where lings are still active, and I got sick of lings again after like 10 minutes when I saw one sprinting around with stimulants and killing everything in sight with its armblade. Honestly I don't really miss them

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:04 pm #149417

Davidchan wrote:What if Malf was changed to kill/borg all humans? Any of the murderbone techniques could be used and nuking the station would just be the last resort.

that would be an improvement. Before we had the self destruct I believe malf had the objective to prevent anyone from escaping alive on the shuttle.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:54 pm #149427

Rest in peace old cult

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:04 pm #149431

Davidchan wrote:What if Malf was changed to kill/borg all humans? Any of the murderbone techniques could be used and nuking the station would just be the last resort.

"Kill all" isn't ideal, much better to have "kill most". Look at Rev, when people know they're a target a certain proportion will camp out in space or find some other way to make it impossible to be found, not because it's enjoyable for them but because it denies the enemy victory.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:00 pm #149479

Incomptinence wrote:Oldcult was alright flexible, not dependent on rng fairy to even get started.

Traitorchan is still on basil though, while being unable to stand on their own merits means changelings are basically on life support it can be fun. Mulligan can make them too I think? Their objectives are more doable from a good job positions (making new ID hello the new brainsteal but for hops this tiiiime) but the absorb one it pretty token.

Someone added "This round has an inbuilt chance to fail" back to cult?

Dear god, fixing that is how I ended up making a half baked new version in the first place.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:20 pm #149496

TK got given a ton of ideas as to how to help improve his version of cult (namely by adding armament runes to cultists roundstart) and it got removed from rotation for being shit because he never fixed it.

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:16 am #149564

Zilenan91 wrote:TK got given a ton of ideas as to how to help improve his version of cult (namely by adding armament runes to cultists roundstart) and it got removed from rotation for being shit because he never fixed it.

So the HoG problem. Bring back Xhuis

onleavedontatme · Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:24 am

It got removed because soulstones and huds broke, which was entirely because of my 2012 era shitcode.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:14 am #149577

Soulstones are working now I think

1g88a · Post by **1g88a** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:05 am #149784

Make oldcult and newcult their own modes.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:38 am #149795

1g88a wrote:Make oldcult and newcult their own modes.

I actually wouldn't mind this. A lot of the resentment I hold towards newcult is because it's meant as a replacement for oldcult, which is vastly superior in my opinion. My only concern with this is that the mode already feels too much like ops and gang.

onleavedontatme · Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:02 am

I honestly do not understand why people miss old cult. The core mechanic was so confusing we scrapped it, and then invalidated the other core mechanic (conversion) via scaling.

Leaving us with "stun paper a couple people and then turn into a singularity"

New cult has its problems but it at least has design goals and isnt yet another mass conversion spam mode

kazeespada · Post by **kazeespada** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:11 am #149814

Meteor and Monkey please.

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:12 am

Kor wrote:I honestly do not understand why people miss old cult. The core mechanic was so confusing we scrapped it, and then invalidated the other core mechanic (conversion) via scaling.

Leaving us with "stun paper a couple people and then turn into a singularity"

New cult has its problems but it at least has design goals and isnt yet another mass conversion spam mode

1. go to pre-xhuis cult (sorry xhuis

)
2. make word research a bit easier and more intuitive
3. give cultists some kind of really really really weak magic missile so they have some kind of ranged option
bababooey

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:12 am #149816

Artificers already have magic missile. Also fuck stun paper.

Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:14 am

Zilenan91 wrote:Artificers already have magic missile. Also fuck stun paper.

>unironically sending artificers into combat
double bababooey

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:15 am #149819

send an arti and a jugg. Arti MMs, the jugg punches his dick into the dirt

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:33 am #149851

1g88a wrote:Make oldcult and newcult their own modes.

Funnily enough I was originally going to work on sac cult as a separate game mode, but because convert 'em all cult was so horrid and I was afraid autistbus would complain about duplicate code (which they would've done guaranteed, they bitched enough about me not changing the way text colors were done in old code which I didn't want to touch because I was probably going to rewrite the procs entirely anyway - and even said as much in the initial PR post, yet they still moaned...) so ended up chopping up a production game mode on the fly... then I got fed up and quit coding.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:12 pm

Whoever let someone take cult off rotation and force that other garbage in should be sent to the Hague for crimes against humanity. To the people who still question the value of oldcult. You're wrong. Just accept it. I've been wrong on things before too. Everyone does. This is a complex game. But you have to accept that cult was a fun mode to a LOT of players and despite its flaws (what mode doesn't have critical issues?) it was/is a great mode that needs to return and get whatever tweaks are necessary.

@Kor, you especially seem traumatized by the scaling issue that got fixed a while back. Only thing we needed was a slightly improved research system (I've offered my idea before, basically keep it similar to the previous logic game, but eliminate the part where you have to memorize a bunch of colors and shapes so you can actually identify when you've correctly scribed a rune using unconfirmed words).

Zilenan91 wrote:You bet your ass I whined about cult. It made me straight up not want to play the game at all it was so shit. It was a lot better, but not good, after TK fixed it.

You suck, we get it. Stop reminding us.

Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:04 pm

tbh oldcult with constructs and conversions wasn't that bad, people just flipped their shit a bit too hard at it at first and it got kinda kneejerked off the server

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:45 am #150030

I prefer oldcult tbh. I hate getting sacced and constructed then either sent on a suicide mission to security (who had no idea of a cult but they do now) with no back-up as a Jug, or, shut-away in maint to shit out soul stones for all eternity as an artificer. Least Wraith let's me by somewhat useful by assassinating dangerous targets and jaunting away but everyone wants the Juggernaut meme.
I'd rather have been converted, being a full-blown cultist is more interesting than being a construct in my opinion.

Which, if any, of the currently disabled (non-meme) modes do you miss? Select all that apply.