Traitorsec 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Drynwyn]

First of all, let me be clear: I am not advocating a return to the days of sec being as likely to be traitors as anyone else.

Now that that's out of the way: For those of you too young to recall, it wasn't always the case that you were certain you could trust your local security officer with 100% certainty. Sec were as likely to be traitors as anyone else. This was not good, and led to confusion in the sec horse, and coupled with sec's need for discretion, frequently led to Sec being declared rogue for going about their work.

That said, I feel that the nonexistence of traitor security has fostered an attitude (among the players, not the admins, to be clear) about sec that is more permissive towards shitty, authoritarian sec players- because they couldn't possibly be an antag, so whatever they do is done with good intentions, right?

I think that a very small (5% range) chance for a single (no more than a single- multiple traitor sec officers is REALLY nasty) security officer to be a traitor or changeling would tend to reduce the crew's permissiveness toward's security officers- and leaving those niggling doubts about people's trustworthiness that are so conducive to good gameplay- while still keeping sec as a generally trustworthy entity.

[lumipharon]

security can already be impersonated/replaced/converted into many antags.

Antag sec was shit because there was a 50/50 chance that when a sec officer stunned you, you were going to get cuffed and murdered. That is why people hated sec, greytided and generally made sec's life miserable.
Because there was zero reason to ever trust or co-operate with them, and plenty of reason to actively work against them.

[PKPenguin321]

on one hand, it will make AIs less inclined to side with sec, which is great

on the other hand, it will make greytiding sec and releasing prisoners valid as soon as somebody says "oh i figured the officer was a traitor"

[kevinz000]

I'm traitorsec whenever I'm antag and not RD tho

[Incomptinence]

Well changelings are rarer than traitors and there are less changelings in traitorchan. Let traitorchang mode make changeling officers?

[DemonFiren]

>changeling officers

I was changeling Warden once. The station came to suffer for it. Don't.

[Incomptinence]

Antagonists should make people suffer and it makes sense it just simulates a changeling having replaced a loyal officer before the round.

[callanrockslol]

Anyone that doesn't remember being arrested, having your headset stripped and being dragged to the prison station to be murdered shouldn't get a say whether it comes back or not.

You don't know what it was like.

[Anonmare]

I've successfully replaced officers and detectives as traitor/Changeling. You get literally carté blanché to do whatever you want (I've literally arrested people with nothing but my word and planted evidence on them), that is, until the meta changes and greytide stationwide becomes more than a meme.

[lumipharon]

It's not a meme. It's history.
And it got changed for the better.

[Incomptinence]

The tide remained always, retreated if you will a "low tide" however it never left.

The smarter tiders just avoid spouting the catch phrases it takes to force largely sec hating admins to actually do something.

[Steelpoint]

The removal of round start Traitor Security was, in my opinion, a good change for the game.

While I fully understand people wanting to take the game back in many places to a more conservative play style akin to years long past, but traitor sec was never a good feature.

[CPTANT]

Being a changeling HoS/warden/officer is basically just free snack time.

"HOLD IT CITIZEN YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR SUSPICION OF MURDER."

"Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine"

Welcome to the gulag where you get eaten.

[Incomptinence]

Oh no some roles might make for easy antagonism! Like the one where no one questions you making area affect gibing devices, or the one with basically all access and maybe even the one where you create and tend what amounts to the designated round ender.

[CPTANT]

Oh no some roles might make for easy antagonism! Like the one where no one questions you making area affect gibing devices, or the one with basically all access and maybe even the one where you create and tend what amounts to the designated round ender.

Those roles still leave a department to protect the station and catch perpetrators intact.

It's not about how easy it is, it is about how interesting for gameplay and not shit it is.

[Drynwyn]

Being a changeling HoS/warden/officer is basically just free snack time.

"HOLD IT CITIZEN YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR SUSPICION OF MURDER."

"Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine"

Welcome to the gulag where you get eaten.

See, I think it would be better if instead of saying "Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine" the person said "WAIT WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE, I WANT A LAWYER AND THREE WITNESSES" rather than "well red-shirted man said it, must go along with"

[CPTANT]

Being a changeling HoS/warden/officer is basically just free snack time.

"HOLD IT CITIZEN YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR SUSPICION OF MURDER."

"Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine"

Welcome to the gulag where you get eaten.

See, I think it would be better if instead of saying "Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine" the person said "WAIT WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE, I WANT A LAWYER AND THREE WITNESSES" rather than "well red-shirted man said it, must go along with"

Yeah that doesn't really make a difference to how the story ends.

[Malkevin]

First of all, let me be clear: I am not advocating a return to the days of sec being as likely to be traitors as anyone else.

Now that that's out of the way: For those of you too young to recall, it wasn't always the case that you were certain you could trust your local security officer with 100% certainty. Sec were as likely to be traitors as anyone else. This was not good, and led to confusion in the sec horse, and coupled with sec's need for discretion, frequently led to Sec being declared rogue for going about their work.

Wasn't always the case but Sec have probably spent more time protected than unprotected.

[Drynwyn]

Being a changeling HoS/warden/officer is basically just free snack time.

"HOLD IT CITIZEN YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR SUSPICION OF MURDER."

"Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine"

Welcome to the gulag where you get eaten.

See, I think it would be better if instead of saying "Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine" the person said "WAIT WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE, I WANT A LAWYER AND THREE THESE DUDes i know" rather than "well red-shirted man said it, must go along with"

Yeah that doesn't really make a difference to how the story ends.

i guess a taser and a red jumpsuit make you unbeatable, that must be why the station sec force never dies ever

[Helios]

What about traitorous Captains, so there's more captains being overthrown.
And they could have super objectives.

[Anonmare]

Isn't that basically the HoP?

Here's something !FUN! buy an emag, emag your comm console, call Syndiecomm and tell them you have installed yourself as leader of the coveted Space Station 13 and ask for more orders.

[CPTANT]

Being a changeling HoS/warden/officer is basically just free snack time.

"HOLD IT CITIZEN YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR SUSPICION OF MURDER."

"Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine"

Welcome to the gulag where you get eaten.

See, I think it would be better if instead of saying "Well I didn't murder anyone so this will clear out just fine" the person said "WAIT WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE, I WANT A LAWYER AND THREE THESE DUDes i know" rather than "well red-shirted man said it, must go along with"

Yeah that doesn't really make a difference to how the story ends.

i guess a taser and a red jumpsuit make you unbeatable, that must be why the station sec force never dies ever

The fuck are you going with this, antags get loads of shit to help them defeat security, or they are conversion antags that overwelm sec in numbers.

Having traitor sec makes playing regular sec even more of a giant PITA than it already is and does not make the round more fun for other people either.

[onleavedontatme]

As much as I hate the existence of incorruptible valid hunters with a team HUD, we have spent too many years balancing the rules and code around ss13 being TDM, so it would be terrible to go back at this point.

[Incomptinence]

What balance? Do you mean nerfing security gear after protect from antag in the name of "stun removal" or "everyone must use my blue lasers"?

Security has basically been redesigned to be overwhelmed by the crew easily just look at rev.

[onleavedontatme]

http://ss13.eu/tgdb/tg/latest_stats.htm ... revolution

>54% rev winrate

Sec seems to be doing okay

[Incomptinence]

Well at least that improved used to be 80% a few months ago. Not sure what did that so quickly wasn't any pull I know of.

Edit: Maybe it was map rotation? Or slip nerf (for cascading gear theft reasons)?

[Super Aggro Crag]

if you trust sec not to kill you even when they're not traitors you're a dummy.

[lumipharon]

i guess a taser and a red jumpsuit make you unbeatable, that must be why the station sec force never dies ever

No, the reason is because sec has justifiable reasons to arrest people, where as some random traitor greyshit does not.
Of course then you get to the point where the crew does not trust sec arresting anyone ever, and goes out of their way to get in their way/steal prisoners etc, like how it was 2-3 years ago. And guess what? It was fucking awful for everyone that wasn't the antagsec.

[Incomptinence]

Well pulling cuffed people has been made harder to interrupt but let's pretend that and admins had no role in reducing prisoner thefts and give all credit to the sacred cow.

[oranges]

no