Tesla needs to be toned down

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:00 am #148206

Bottom post of the previous page:

there's a nerf PR up that makes the tesla inferior to the singulo in terms of power generation, are you happy now or are you still going to demand removal

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:06 am #148207

It also dies on its own now, and doesn't generate tesla balls naturally anymore, and it generates them incredibly slowly. It'll suck now, basically. The whole niche thing it had before where it didn't destroy the station but killed more people is now gone because it doesn't even do that anymore. There's no point in even using it. The pr shouldn't be merged tbh, even though I know it will.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:08 am #148210

I keep saying this in coderbus but people aren't listening because lol goofball

and it'll totally get merged because it's MSO and no one challenges MSO

TheNightingale · Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:29 am

Isn't the whole point of the tesla that it generates more power and doesn't destroy the station, but is more dangerous to the unprepared?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:30 am #148216

Yeah. MSO is killing that and making it shit.

Amnestik · Post by **Amnestik** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:18 am #148221

The complaint was the instakill without warning, so why change anything else

I mean maybe bring the power generated down a little to match it being a little less deadly but that's all that needs to be done

Post by **lumipharon** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:33 am #148226

Being ggnore'd by something you can neither see nor avoid is absolutely bullshit. Doesn't matter if it's "intended" to be or not, it's bad game design.
And relying on a hard counter that most of the station outside of engineering don't have (engineering/atmos hardsuits, RD, mining and sec, and gloves that outside of engineering are only in 2 places + cargo) is equally gay.

Singulo is good because lag aside, it's big, scary and something you can't ordinarily beat - but you can run from it.
Tesla is just "dead from offscreen/it teleported on me", or you've got the hard counter and simply ignore it.

Also because you can seemingly just leave the PA running for 3453987 balls, if anyone tries to use a powersink, the damn thing makes enough power to blow it up god knows how fast (and presumably fry anyone that gets shocked by a door)

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:55 am

I think that the singularity is just cooler thematically as an engine and cooler/ more avoidable/ fair when it is released.
tesla doesn't really feel that cool, just pops up and kills you, doesn't really leave any disaster in its wake.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:57 am #148241

Yeah, it just needs some tweaks and nerfs like making it hearable a few screens away (for real this time) and some other things like a range reduction.
Not this.
What MSO is doing is gutting the thing completely and making it completely shit and useless for both non-antags and antags.

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:10 am

Just lower the range of the electric arcs, make it shit out a ton of emp pulses so that it leaves a trace of where it is (unless it already does this)

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:10 am #148249

Yeah the range and maybe the power gen on it needed ot be decreased and that was about it. It would've also been nice if it had a way to release itself but I think it's fine if it doesn't. It's just a quirk of the engine, it can't release itelf but when it gets out it kills a ton more people.

Lumbermancer · Wed Feb 03, 2016 7:52 pm

Remove this stupid thing already.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:42 am #151929

It's still hilariously overpowered. Engineering put it in a 1x1 cage (4 field emitters) with the PA running and it had nearly a solid circle of tesla balls orbiting producing 127 megawatts, or about 60 times what a stage 3 singulo can do. And the CE set it all up in the first 10 minutes of the round then ran off to do cult things. Round before that traitor CE just let it run for 30 minutes before letting it go kill 2/3rds the crew (and managing to miss his objective anyways) while he walked around in his hardsuit and gloves, holoparasite and most of the armory in his bag. Aren't antags supposed to be a challenge, not have 'i kill the crew without effort' buttons?

Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:53 am

Davidchan wrote:It's still hilariously overpowered. Engineering put it in a 1x1 cage (4 field emitters) with the PA running and it had nearly a solid circle of tesla balls orbiting producing 127 megawatts, or about 60 times what a stage 3 singulo can do. And the CE set it all up in the first 10 minutes of the round then ran off to do cult things. Round before that traitor CE just let it run for 30 minutes before letting it go kill 2/3rds the crew (and managing to miss his objective anyways) while he walked around in his hardsuit and gloves, holoparasite and most of the armory in his bag. Aren't antags supposed to be a challenge, not have 'i kill the crew without effort' buttons?

This has nothing to do with antags inherently. Anybody can use the Tesla engine.
And no, antags aren't necessarily supposed to be a challenge, they're supposed to drive the round. If antags were intended as "challenge" roles, they would just die instantly 9/10 rounds and the round would be boring as fuck. Oh wait that already happens

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:58 am #151978

The point is the engine can only be released through sabotage (or sheer incompetence). It's easy mode for any antag who can get into engineering and steal a suit and gloves, just turn off the emitters/cut the wires and wait. And it doesn't require any monitoring so its not like there are going to be engineers around to stop it unless they are paranoid. An antag engineer can literally kill the entire crew without leaving engineering or spending a TC, without any risk to themselves. Which, has been happening more and more.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:46 am #151987

This is different from the singulo, how?

TheNightingale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:11 pm

Releasing the singularity has a chance to kill the person who released it; releasing the tesla doesn't (all they need is gloves and an Engineering hardsuit).
Maybe if the tesla damaged people even through hardsuits?

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:36 pm #151997

CosmicScientist wrote: Tesla just gibs you if you stand next to/on its main energy ball. It doesn't care if you have the CE's hardsuit with insulated gloves.

Absolutely false. I've walked through it wearing a miner suit and engineering suit. If you're protected from tesla, you're totally protected.

Plus the Tesla can and will kill you from off screen, I've been in positions where I only heard it for a split second before a bolt of lightning shot right to me instantly fried me. Singulo, has to be on the same screen and even if you do get a look at it, it doesn't instantly kill you even at stage 5.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:59 pm #152002

If you are a non-antag Engineer, unwrench one of the grounding rods in the containment field. Move the rod to escape and set it up there. BRING AT LEAST TWO. Also, it is not COMPLETE protection, as it can still kill you by bouncing an arc from the rod to you. Still, the tesla engine will prefer the rod.

Note to cyborgs: Do not approach an area filled with humans, as the tesla's lightning arc gains extra range if it targets you! You will be a threat to the flesh bags!

Additional note: Grounding rods can be constructed with a standard machine frame, cables, circuit board, and capacitor.

TheNightingale · Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:18 pm

dust() is what the supermatter does, I think. It turns you into a pile of bones.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:30 am #152127

Guys. Sit in a locker. You are literally immune from the tesla if you're in a locker.

iamgoofball · Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:45 am

Zilenan91 wrote:Guys. Sit in a locker. You are literally immune from the tesla if you're in a locker.

Yup, this is intentional too. Faraday Cage. Same reason hardsuits protect you.

TheNightingale · Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:56 am

Don't Faraday cages only work when you're not touching the outside? This is ignoring the fact that both the locker and the entire station's hull is made from conductive metal, of course.

In a Faraday cage, only the outside of the cage is electrified, and the inside is fine. But if you touch the metal, zap, because it's still electrically charged. You'd have to be wearing rubber shoes and not touching any part of the locker. (We can assume hardsuits are similarly insulated... which raises the question of how you can get shocked whilst wearing one.)

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:00 am #152135

Best not to think about that really. Like how targeted radiation can make the tesla get more balls, or how electric fields can contain a black hole.

Lumbermancer · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:14 am

The problem is that when tesla comes at you it's too late to get into locker.

TheNightingale · Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:15 am

Inside the containment generators are carefully-designed antimatter repulsion fields, and the particle accelerator's targeted radiation... uh...
... okay, that one's just magic, the SWF designed it.

Also, remember that cardboard boxes count as lockers, so you can crawl around in one when the tesla gets loose.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:51 am #152175

Lumbermancer wrote:The problem is that when tesla comes at you it's too late to get into locker.

MSO's PR fixes this.

DanielRatherman · Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:30 am

Literally every encounter I've had with the Tesla has been being instakilled through a wall- and it's seemed to do so in at least one round every day I've play. Either make it less lethal, make it's approach MUCH more slow and avoidable, or just get rid of the fucker.

Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:36 am

DanielRatherman wrote:Literally every encounter I've had with the Tesla has been being instakilled through a wall- and it's seemed to do so in at least one round every day I've play. Either make it less lethal, make it's approach MUCH more slow and avoidable, or just get rid of the fucker.

turn on ur speakers
or get headphones
like damn son are u deaf lmao

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:44 pm #159465

who thought it was a good idea to put a giant ball of electricity on a station mostly comprised of metal with no actual insulation?

Jazaen · Post by **Jazaen** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:43 pm #159470

Same people that power it with a literal black hole. Or, if you believe it to be "Bluespace singularity" instead of "gravitational singularity", and unexplained bluespace phenomenon that ACTS like a black hole.

Lumbermancer · Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:45 pm

MMMiracles wrote:who thought it was a good idea to put a giant ball of electricity on a station mostly comprised of metal with no actual insulation?

This guy:

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:49 pm #159478

Lumbermancer wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:who thought it was a good idea to put a giant ball of electricity on a station mostly comprised of metal with no actual insulation?
This guy:

To be fair I necrobumped the shit out of that thread until someone did it.

Its a great idea, just needs to be fixed up. Needs:
-Some sort of forewarning that ITS COMING.
-Actually travelling like the Singulo does and not teleporting would help a lot.
-Less damage the further away you are from the bolts so its not an instant kill from 20 tiles away.
-A way to release itself if neglected.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:05 pm #159480

Saegrimr wrote:
To be fair I necrobumped the shit out of that thread until someone did it.

Its a great idea, just needs to be fixed up. Needs:
-Some sort of forewarning that ITS COMING.
-Actually travelling like the Singulo does and not teleporting would help a lot.
-Less damage the further away you are from the bolts so its not an instant kill from 20 tiles away.
-A way to release itself if neglected.

The ability to fully dissipate and die out. Singuloth at least keeps growing because it's eating thing, Tesla just keeps zapping shit and slowly losing aux balls but as far as i know the central/main ball will never wink out.

Lumbermancer · Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:16 pm

But what's the ultimate point to Tesla? Is it variety for the sake of variety? Because it most certainly can't replicate the sense of survival and impending doom of released Singulo.

It doesn't damage the station, big deal if shuttle gets called anyway.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:33 pm #159484

Honestly, it's just a lot less laggy. Singulo sometimes creates a lot of lag, and sometimes doesn't, it depends on the server revision and it fluctuates, even if it shouldn't. Fixes made to stop it lagging end up not working a few months later. Having tesla as the alternative that won't fuck up the game if it gets released is neat. You also trade pros and cons for the engine in non-meta terms, too. The singulo fucks up the station, but it's relatively easy to escape from. The tesla leaves everything intact, but it can kill without warning. The singulo will normally have its vengeance on the engineers. The tesla can't damage them if they have the right gear. The singulo becomes a mounting threat, but can eventually be destroyed. The tesla is a dwindling threat, but it can never go away entirely.

It is variety, but I think it's variety worth keeping.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:49 pm #159504

It doesn't damage the station, big deal if shuttle gets called anyway.

going into a coma because of this post brb

the only thing it doesn't damage is simple_animals and turfs

it completely destroys machines, powernets, everything

try rebuilding medbay and R&D after the tesla ball goes through

all the machines are dead, broken. decharged, and busted

apcs dead

lights and cameras are dead

you have to rebuild the entire infastructure and machine capability of the department

-Some sort of forewarning that ITS COMING.

did you miss the SUPER LOUD FUCKING SOUNDS THAT IT PLAYS FROM TWO SCREENS AWAY AT MAX VOLUME

-Less damage the further away you are from the bolts so its not an instant kill from 20 tiles away.

this is literally a thing because it bounces across objects and shit, and loses charge, lowering the damage

-A way to release itself if neglected.

the only ways to release singulo:
1. depower emitters(sabotage or bad engineers)
2. depower shield emitters(sabotage or bad engineers)
3. leaving the PA at 2/3(sabotage or bad engineers)
only ways to release the tesla:
1. depower emitters(sabotage or bad engineers)
2. depower shield emitters(sabotage or bad engineers)
3. dismantle the grounding rods(sabotage or bad engineers)

all 3 methods are 99% of the time done by sabotage, and can still be done by neglecting engineers.

-Actually travelling like the Singulo does and not teleporting would help a lot.

MSO's PR was supposed to help with this. Keep in mind, the tesla ball is 1x1 to BYOND.
The singulo moving at 5x5 makes it move a LOT more. It also pulls everything else in from a distance, making it seem bigger movement wise and damage wise. Tests ran with the tesla ball moving 1 tile at a time showed it literally went no where.

But what's the ultimate point to Tesla?

better singulo alternative that doesn't lag but is just as destructive

i understand you people don't count it as destruction unless space tiles appear but you gotta keep in mind: a department without any of its machines or power or doors is just an empty husk that cannot do anything, and is effectively destroyed

Lumbermancer · Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:27 pm

iamgoofball wrote:
It doesn't damage the station, big deal if shuttle gets called anyway.
going into a coma because of this post brb

wew lad, so you're saying it's even less different than singulo?

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:29 pm #159512

did you read my post

Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:56 pm

le bully goofball meme is in full force
tesla is cool and if you want to have a way to know that it's coming literally turn on your speakers you deaf motherfuckers

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:13 pm #159523

iamgoofball wrote:did you miss the SUPER LOUD FUCKING SOUNDS THAT IT PLAYS FROM TWO SCREENS AWAY AT MAX VOLUME

Is this a thing for observers? Maybe i'm just not being very perceptive about it but I never seem to hear it while ghosting around unless its actively zapping something on screen.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:24 pm #159524

Saegrimr wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:did you miss the SUPER LOUD FUCKING SOUNDS THAT IT PLAYS FROM TWO SCREENS AWAY AT MAX VOLUME
Is this a thing for observers? Maybe i'm just not being very perceptive about it but I never seem to hear it while ghosting around unless its actively zapping something on screen.

observers are fucking weird

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:15 pm #159576

What if the Tesla has a massive EMP range and a medium-long shock range?

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:35 pm #159577

Luke Cox wrote:What if the Tesla has a massive EMP range and a medium-long shock range?

it already does that, its bolts EMP

Lumbermancer · Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:29 pm

iamgoofball wrote:did you read my post

I sure did, I just don't think it's a massive difference. And the difference that is is for the worse.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:37 pm #159625

iamgoofball wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:What if the Tesla has a massive EMP range and a medium-long shock range?
it already does that, its bolts EMP

Then increase the EMP range (make it happen when the ball is ~1.5 screens away) and nerf the shock range a little

TechnoAlchemist · Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:35 am

TBH the tesla is only annoying if you're playing with sound off, or if it arcs outside of containment when you are in space near engineering.

Incomptinence · Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:05 am

Working xenobio hear loose tesla, run into locker. Buddy gets paralysed by it or something run back locker him go find another locker. We camp out being locker buddies freaking out over it krakawing all over our workplace. Both got out alive no worries.

If you are afraid to play with the sound on around people or something get headphones. Honestly waiting for someone who plays without the sound off to claim revolver is the new parapen because there is NO WARNING someone is using it!

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:49 pm #159803

I honestly think it has been rebalanced for the better, i have not been ggnore instakilled by it in quite some time. Tesla is still for pussies though, real men use singulo power

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:57 pm #159830

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/15962

if you still can't hear the damn thing either invest in headphones, speakers, hearing aids, or any combo of these

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:17 pm #159892

Just to clarify, will an escaped Tesla ball eventually fizzle out?