blood, bleeding, etc

[Miauw]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/7239

i literally haven't looked at the discussion in this PR, i'm just making a feedback thread.

[RG4]

Baymed soon.
/tg/ station BayLite

[Wyzack]

I don't have a git account but Pap if you see this thread maybe consider cauterisation as a way to ghetto stop bleending. Slight burn damage in exchange for not loosing your precious fluids

[Alex Crimson]

Readds bruise packs and ointment to medkits.
Nerfs bruise packs and ointment to not apply through hardsuits.
Nerfs bruise packs and ointment to require a delay for applying.

Important points that probably should be discussed. Pretty big nerf to Bruise packs/Ointment. Although i am fine with it if it adds them back to Medkits. Mining will once again cry =(

This bleeding system seems to basically be an extra effect for brute damage. No matter what causes the brute damage, you will only start bleeding at certain damage thresholds. Once you start bleeding, you must apply Gauze to stop it, even if you are healed of your brute damage. To restore blood you must either regen it over time(nutriment/hunger level makes it regen faster) or get a transfusion from a blood pack. Lose too much blood and you will pass out periodically, or even die if you completely run out.

I expected something different. Doesnt seem like cutting weapons would have any advantage when it comes to causing bleeding. Just grab the most robust weapon you can and hit someone.


Considering Paprika seems open to a player poll, i think this would be a good chance to start a trend of trailing big PRs on the main server for a week, then reverting it and adding a player poll on the forums for everyone to vote. Obviously the server would need some kind of message/announcement when you log in to explain that there is a new feature being tested.

[Steelpoint]

Blood loss only affects people that are in protracted engagements. So getting into one fight won't see you suddenly white with no blood, but if your getting into a lot of fights you'll start to see some trouble (unless your good at avoiding damage).

[Incoming]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

[Alex Crimson]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

Go with whichever gets merged first?

[Loonikus]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

I concur, this is starting to get confusing. What does this mean for the chemists patch system? What other systems are coders working on? Will these changes be less terrible?

Edit: After reading through it twice, I feel a lot better about it.

[Miauw]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

there's two or three similar but competing ideologies among coders for everything.

[cedarbridge]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

there's two or three similar but competing ideologies among coders for everything.

That's called "a problem"

[Miauw]

It's kind of hard to get behind the medical changes when there's like two or three similar but competing ideologies for what people want the medical system to be amongst the coders.

there's two or three similar but competing ideologies among coders for everything.

That's called "a problem"

it's also called "SS13 game design"

[Scones]

Looks good to me

Interested to see it in action

[Loonikus]

As much as we are all used to coders not working together, its still a problem when coders start stepping on each others toes.

That said, I'm fine with bringing back bruise packs/ointments so long as sleepers are gone, which is also here. I feel like this is another step towards medbay being a lot more involved and more than just finding the most efficient way to pump someone full of drugs. Maybe now taking on an entire nuke op team will actually leave you in the medbay for more than two minutes max.

[RG4]

So the big question, why do we need Baymed on /tg/?

[Reimoo]

Anything is better than what we have now, really.

[RG4]

Anything is better than what we have now, really.

Rather than the simple system that had been in place for years, and needlessly over-complicating it?

[JJRcop]

Bleeding is per-limb, it isn't if you have a total 20 brute you start bleeding, it's if your arm has 20 brute, you will start bleeding, then if your leg also has 20 brute you'll bleed twice as much, and so on.
So bleeding isn't actually going to happen as often as you may think. If you have 95 brute damage, but it is equally spread across all limbs at 19 a piece, you won't bleed.

EDIT: Sorry, you start bleeding at 30 damage to a limb, you could be knocked into crit and not be bleeding.

[paprika]

Once you start bleeding, you must apply Gauze to stop it, even if you are healed of your brute damage.

No, wrong.

If you heal your bruise damage regardless, blood loss will stop. Gauze and improvised gauze are really easy to obtain in comparison to bruise packs and stuff, so you can temporarily patch your blood loss until you can get healed. Doctors can do this on people in crit until they can heal them. Gauze is completely optional in the healing process but it's a good idea so they don't bleed all over the place, especially if you're dragging their body.

[paprika]

Also I'd like to point out that until dismemeberment (remierichards' PR) is merged, sharp weapons won't have an effect on this, yes.

I'm open to the idea of reworking blood so that sharp weapons do less damage, but make bleeding wounds instead of straight high damage wounds. Toolbox to the head 2 times in order to start bleeding and 30 damage. One cut from a scalpel, 8 damage but instant bloodloss that needs to be patched.

[Alex Crimson]

Bleeding is per-limb, it isn't if you have a total 20 brute you start bleeding, it's if your arm has 20 brute, you will start bleeding, then if your leg also has 20 brute you'll bleed twice as much, and so on.
So bleeding isn't actually going to happen as often as you may think. If you have 95 brute damage, but it is equally spread across all limbs at 19 a piece, you won't bleed.

EDIT: Sorry, you start bleeding at 30 damage to a limb, you could be knocked into crit and not be bleeding.

Generally people dont aim for different parts of the body, and have no reason to. Mostly its chest/head damage unless you are fighting NPCs.

Jeez this bleeding system really screws miners.

[ExplosiveCrate]

My biggest concern is how this would affect cult, mainly because for some reason everyone who designs an advanced medical system fails to take into account how some runes deal silly amounts of damage to whoever was using them, leading to weird shit like someone on bay having every bone in his body suddenly break because he used a cultist summoning rune.

[paprika]

Well cult only deals 5 damage (spread across your whole body using rng) so it'd take a while to start bleeding, and even then, it isn't hard to steal a bedsheet to use as gauze to stop your bleeding should the rune drawing get too severe. I fear that if I make the runes simply just take blood from the host, it'd be even more annoying than the current system because WHOOPS LOW BLOOD ENJOY FAINTING

Miners are something I plan to address, but what would you prefer? Honestly, I almost just want to make miners spawn with medkits at this point, they're the only job on the station that actually gets damaged as a part of their job at higher level play (like the second trip to the asteroid you can usually expect to be equipped to fight monsters, and even sometimes on the first if you get jumped by them) besides sec. What about removing the needless sleeper in mining, replacing it with an IV drip and some blood packs so miners can attend to themselves (or antags if they don't want to go to medbay)

I also plan on adding an IV drip to that ghetto surgery above the sec checkpoint in maint, so you don't HAVE to go to medbay to get a transfusion, but it is preferred since they start with a ton of bloodpacks.

[soulgamer]

As long as this doesnt turn into
>get punched by some asshole and take like 2 brute damage
>bleed out five minutes later with no warning
It shouldnt be that bad. I am also a little concerned with how this will merge with dismemberment (if it ever comes) and the shit that is goonche-

Spoiler:

<paprika> Uh, no, bruise packs are something doctors rely on, fuck your goonchem being shoved into everything.

[Wyzack]

Will bloodloss eventually replace suffocation for the way you die in crit? I always though that suffocating to death after having your limbs brutalized was kinda odd

[paprika]

The idea in crit was that you suffocate from lung failure and organ shutdown after going into shock from too much tissue damage and bloodloss

[PKPenguin321]

why would it change how crit works
i mean it could definitely speed up how fast you die if you manage lose all your blood quicker than you suffocate
but going unconscious and not being able to breathe wont be removed just because spacemen can bleed now