GOONCHEM FEEDBACK 2.0

[Shaps-cloud]

Bottom post of the previous page:

So I don't know how this never came up before, but the old Trekchem problem of filling yourself up with a ridiculous amount of healing chems and just regenerating endlessly is very much still a thing. You can fill yourself up on styptic powder and silver sulf (very easy to mass produce via chemistry, plus there's 250u worth of patches of both in each of the ~7 medivendors), and have a constant 2 brute/burn healed per tick. While it's not quite as effective while fighting other people, since they can just keep beating you down once you're in crit, it allows you to keep popping up against NPC's and makes it impossible for them to kill you, since they ignore you while you're in crit, giving you time to recover and get back up

I realized this last night when we got clown bombed and I was getting honked by ~7 clowns at once, but I just kept getting back up from crit again and again, very helpful

[iyaerP]

I'm pretty sure injecting someone with salt and sugar would fuck up their kidneys if the quantity is too high, there should be an overdose limit - even if it is really high.
Then you could make it not crap without being too OP.


By the way, instead of overdosing being an arbitary "this chemical has been in my system for longer than X number of ticks so now I'm going to do stuff, but if you wait for one dose to run out then you can have a full dose again no probs" chemicals should decompose into waste chemicals, which are slowly purged from the body but if they go beyond a certain point the host suffers toxin damage etc.

Saline solution IVs are literally what hospitals use to rehydrate someone when they are unable to drink or something and need medical rehydration

[Malkevin]

Yeah, but its like a few ml drop every few seconds, they're not injecting the entire bag into them at once.

[iyaerP]

It is a suppository.

[Fr05tByt3]

It is a suppository.

Up yours.

[Babin]

Styptic and silversulf had a much higher depletion rate and charcoal purges other chems while healing a relatively uncommon damage type. Salbutamol is a powerful anti-crit though. When styptic/sulf were buffed back to normal depletion rate, they became strong again. Not quite as good as tricord was for stacking 500u, but still viable.

[Tokiko2]

Isn't Styptic Powder and Silver Sulf supposed to damage you if you have it in your body? I thought it was supposed to be a touch based instant heal chem only. Not a heal over time like the old chems.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Isn't Styptic Powder and Silver Sulf supposed to damage you if you have it in your body? I thought it was supposed to be a touch based instant heal chem only. Not a heal over time like the old chems.

It causes tox damage on ingest, no by having it in your body. Obviously that's a bit dumb, but again, who cares.

[Bombadil]

Cyanide, coniine, and intro


15u of those 3 mixed is capable of killing you in 5 seconds.

Oh and they can be reproduced in the odysseyus

[Malkevin]

If you get defibbed you're literally fucked for the next 30 minutes.

Please black list those.

[iyaerP]

Tricord and DD don't need a nerf. The whole concept of overdosing and addiction solve the MAKE 500 UNITS OF PILLS AND CHUG EM, and that was the only problem.

Although the fact that service borgs can no longer MAKE DD takes away one of the only cool things aboot them.

[Rhisereld]

Revert Goonchem, keep overdosing please. Is there a poll for this?

Personally the reason I prefer Trekchem is because it was a well-organised system where every type of damage had its drug. There were also more potent drugs, which were more difficult to make and often direct upgrades of the basic drugs. In Goonchem, there's an ungodly number of steps that go into making basic drugs. Not to mention it's a clusterfuck of drugs that are all special-snowflake and don't seem to be interrelated the way Trekchem was - and are impossible to memorise.

[Saegrimr]

Trekchem is just more fun in general and I think that's why it should be our Chen system.

The names just sounded more spacey and cool.
rip dexalin, rip kelotane, rip dermaline

[DemonFiren]

The chems themselves were also more useful.

RIP DD, Tricord. RIP non-pathetic medibots.

[invisty]

Jesus christ these synthflesh patches are OP. Instant heals? What? Nerf that shit.

[PKPenguin321]

Jesus christ these synthflesh patches are OP. Instant heals? What? Nerf that shit.

le old bruisepacks face

Don't fucking nerf it, it's basically one of the only actually potent healing chems

[iamgoofball]

Jesus christ these synthflesh patches are OP. Instant heals? What? Nerf that shit.

le old bruisepacks face

Don't fucking nerf it, it's basically one of the only actually potent healing chems

did you even read the post on the front page about how styptic and silv. Sulf. are better at healing than synthflesh and/or bicard or did you gloss over it because heresy

[Shaps-cloud]

Jesus christ these synthflesh patches are OP. Instant heals? What? Nerf that shit.

If it's so OP then why does no one make it

[lumipharon]

Because it requires blood, which therefore requires effort.

Also a patch with silver sulf + Styptic powder canstill heal well over 100 brute and burn damage, and only requires dispenser shit.
25u styptic = 150 brute
25u silver = 150 burn (I'm almost certain it got buffed to the same level as styptic).

Synth is literally useless, but all three are OP as balls compared to trek healing chems,while not fixing the possibility of loadin up on healing chems, since you can still just hit yourself with 200 patches of meds instead of the old 200 pills.

By golly, it's almost as if it changed nothing except made healing even more 1 click and done.

Trek chems didn't heal instantly, so you can't just click to heal then immediately go back at it.
And because they weren't limited to patches for no particular reason, they are far more useful, since they can be used in dropper, syringes, food, grenades, chem implants, pills etc etc.
Goonchems it's just patches. Also I guess grenades.

This also killed the following forms of healing:
Sleepers
Medibots
Medborgs
the 5+ botany grown plants with healing reagents inside them
the barman's doctor's delight


Seriously just, fucking stick an OD at 100u of each healing chem or some bollocks and use trek healing chems. Adding more powerful, patch only chems did nothing of value.

[PKPenguin321]

Jesus christ these synthflesh patches are OP. Instant heals? What? Nerf that shit.

le old bruisepacks face

Don't fucking nerf it, it's basically one of the only actually potent healing chems

did you even read the post on the front page about how styptic and silv. Sulf. are better at healing than synthflesh and/or bicard or did you gloss over it because heresy

if you'll actually read my post you'll see that i said "one of the only actually potent healing chems," not "the only actually potent healing chem"

[Rhisereld]

I do agree with lumipharon's observations regarding how a lot of Goonchem is limited to patches and breaks a whole lot of design that was centered around being able to ingest chemicals in any way (sleepers, hypospray, droppers, etc.).

[Scones]

chemistry is shit

trekchem was marked by over-simplicity and unbalanced healing mixes (fuck DD), as well as being balanced around just being able to reagent cap yourself on heals - it was not a good system and conceptually it was overpowered bullshit, rob ust never forget

goofchem suffers similar issues although it has made the recipies more complex and prevented true god-mixing via addiction and OD
but the whole patch thing was bullshit and a lot of chems are useless/niche as fuck

chemistry is shit

[iamgoofball]

When the freeze ends I have plans to fix Mediborgs, Medibots, and the problem of injections and droppers, sleepers being useless, etc.

[CPTANT]

When the freeze ends I have plans to fix Mediborgs, Medibots, and the problem of injections and droppers, sleepers being useless, etc.

Wasn't that something that should have been thought out BEFORE overhauling the complete system? They weren't useless before.

[mosquitoman]

I do agree with lumipharon's observations regarding how a lot of Goonchem is limited to patches and breaks a whole lot of design that was centered around being able to ingest chemicals in any way (sleepers, hypospray, droppers, etc.).

all those you listed are simply intravenous

[rockpecker]

When the freeze ends I have plans to fix Mediborgs, Medibots, and the problem of injections and droppers, sleepers being useless, etc.

I'd be interested to hear what your plans are. Might be worth discussing DURING the freeze so that you can get some feedback on the design.

[PKPenguin321]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9767

[CPTANT]

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/9767

I do not really understand, is this mashing both chem systems together?

[Rhisereld]

Literally everyone ever is requesting a REVERT with overdose mechanics added.

I don't see how mashing the two systems together accomplishes this - it's even worse.

[Shaps-cloud]

I think the two systems can be mixed together.

Inaprovaline and Dexalin, maybe not since they're pretty much completely replaced by Epinephrine and Salbumentol

Bicaridine and Kelotane could have their healing and metabolization rates cut in half, so 1u would heal 5 damage over 5 ticks. Combined with the fact that you can eat/drink those chems without getting sick, this would make Bicaridine and Kelotane better at carrying around in a flask or in a burger for patching up over time, while Styptic Powder and Silver Sulf would remain the goto-chems for emergency treatment or general time critical stuff.

Antitoxin could be used to heal toxin damage at a slower rate than Charcoal and Pentetic Acid (maybe 1 toxin damage per tick?), but it doesn't purge any chemicals in the bloodstream. Then when you need to treat a patient that has toxin damage, you won't have to worry about purging any beneficial chemicals already in their bloodstream

[rockpecker]

Literally everyone ever is requesting a REVERT with overdose mechanics added.

I don't see how mashing the two systems together accomplishes this - it's even worse.

Where's the part where this makes sleepers useful?

[DemonFiren]

Sleepers were mildly more useful with trekchems. Bicaridine/Dermaline/Kelotane versus salglu, you know.

Not sure how far salglu's been buffed now, though.