AI Feedback: Constructive Edition

[CPTANT]

Bottom post of the previous page:

EMP now causes camera alarms AFTER the camera comes back online. So, feel free to shut down entire departments with a massive EMP wave, and freely slaughter people, as they have no radio, AI has no sight, energy weapons are drained. You will have 90 seconds before the AI gets any warning or visibility in the area, and this timer can be reset by consecutive EMPs without setting off the alarm. Furthermore, you may safety destroy cameras by simply hitting them. Fire off an EMP to shut down the area, then hit all cameras you can reach within 90 seconds to silently take down an area. Remember, headsets are also disabled by EMP, which means that it is now quite easy to silence and murder several people at once.

Good, traitors aren't nearly aggressive enough now.

[Cik]

the camera alarm on restart doesn't even make any sense

who designs a camera alarm that triggers when it turns back on? i mean wat da fuc

an alarm that's designed to tell you when a camera is out should trigger on loss of signal from the camera but instead it triggers on return of signal? how does that make any sense

i'm not against nerfs but at least think about it, not only is it counter-intuitive but from an engineering / gameplay standpoint it makes no sense at all

[Incomptinence]

Because it doesn't work when it has no power duh.

Nanotrasen a dumb keep your selective realism away.

[Cik]

how about game reason

"what is point of alarm if it doesn't trigger when the thing actually happen"

either make the alarm useful or just remove it, it's certainly not useful now "oh i have alarm it tell me emp went off over a minute ago"

seems useful

y/n

thx

[Arete]

It is more useful than no alarm at all.

[Cik]

not really considering it just clutters the chat. it's very likely that in most cases an AI will see a blacked out region long before the EMP alarm shows up anyway. it'd be better if it was just removed.

Spoiler:

that or do the sane thing and just make it so it triggers when the EMP does.. you know considering a massive EM pulse isn't exactly a fucking stealthy thing, is it?

[Gun Hog]

not really considering it just clutters the chat. it's very likely that in most cases an AI will see a blacked out region long before the EMP alarm shows up anyway. it'd be better if it was just removed.

Spoiler:

that or do the sane thing and just make it so it triggers when the EMP does.. you know considering a massive EM pulse isn't exactly a fucking stealthy thing, is it?

That is how it was before Miauw nerfed it. I begged him to undo it, but I was shot down.

[Cik]

well gee gun hog i know that ya dummy :^)

[PKPenguin321]

how about no EMP alarm because it's been discussed at length and the cons outweigh the pros by a mile

[Not-Dorsidarf]

EMP should have a 10% alarm chance, so the less careful you are with your EMPing (and therefore the more cameras you hit) The more likely the AI is to notice

[Steelpoint]

I dislike RNG in most forms, and I think it makes good game play sense that when a camera EMP alarm is only set off once the camera comes back online.

It puts a time pressure on whoever set off the EMP to do what they need to do before the time expires.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Yeah, but you can stack EMPs to reset the timer, and the timer is a minute and a half, so if you're a ling with EMPshriek, you can run around murdering people as they scream into their useless headsets, drag the highest-access corpse into maint, and unhack the doors, and unless the AI is looking at the department when the comms go down, you'll be undetected

[Steelpoint]

Well either we live with that or put in a inbuilt EMP defence that triggers after a EMP is detected on a camera. Meaning that once you EMP a camera you cannot use another EMP on it for a certain amount of time.

[Miauw]

its called fire alarms

[Celdur]

I don't see the problem with camera alarms after the fact. I mean we talked a lot about how the AI shouldn't be hunting down antags but instead just focus on the victims of harm.
Once the cameras go back and the AI gets an alarm, he can go and check the damage.
Being able to constantly reset the cameras with more EMP seems like it can be exploited too much though.
Maybe just have it so you can't EMP something that is already EMP'd, so there'd be at least a split second of the cameras coming back online.

[Miauw]

I like the concept of EMPd cameras triggering a camera alarm after their "first" EMP runs out, but remaining inactive.

[rockpecker]

Yeah, but you can stack EMPs to reset the timer, and the timer is a minute and a half, so if you're a ling with EMPshriek, you can run around murdering people as they scream into their useless headsets, drag the highest-access corpse into maint, and unhack the doors, and unless the AI is looking at the department when the comms go down, you'll be undetected

Sounds like fun.

[DemonFiren]

Problem is, your chems will run out eventually.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

How many chems is the ling EMP anyway? Fifteen? Twenty?

[DemonFiren]

Wiki says 20.

[Saltycut]

How are you supposed to bludgeon the cameras? I can only interact with them with screwdriver and wirecutters. Clicking them with other objects does nothing.

[DemonFiren]

My guess is harm intent.

[lumipharon]

the delayed alarm is nice for emp's.
Before, it wascompletely pointless since every silicon would know shit was going down before it happened, and would be checking it out.

Now, the person has a window of time to do whatever they're doing, before they find out.

Smashing cameras, while believable, is pretty bad balance (poor malfs), since they lose coverage everywhere in no time at all.

[Amelius]

Smashing cams feels a bit OP against malf/traitor AI. It's already greatly simplified, requiring only a screwdriver and wirecutter that every assistant carries. Expanding that to the rest of the crew feels a bit tilted away from the AI.

Shit also sucks if you're the vanilla AI and you lose your entire field of vision without blinking because of one dude with a toolbox.

[Actionb]

Malf AI has powers to reactivate broken cameras. Besides... people usually don't cut cameras because they are lazy and it takes quite a bit of time to find every camera in your area - time that could be better spent breaking into the core, sealing vents or drinking in the bar.
As long as it takes about just as much time to bash in a camera as it would to cut its wires, not much will change.
Whenever I am going HARM as rogue AI, there's maybe ONE person cutting cameras in some dumb place and that is it. And if I am an engineer on the recieving end, I don't disable cameras either. Wasted time in most cases.

Shit also sucks if you're the vanilla AI and you lose your entire field of vision without blinking because of one dude with a toolbox.

I hope you realize the irony in tha - wait, were you being ironic? You were, right? Damn I fell for that one... or did I?

[Miauw]

you currently need an object with a force of OVER 10, due to a typo. so a lot of things dont work right now