Security Population & Competence

[Tornadium]

Bottom post of the previous page:

It's almost like this is a hyper-diverse community with a ton of perspectives and one of them isn't The Only Correct One That Must Be Enforced At Any Cost.

It's almost like the problems are being exaggerated to the point of insane weeping hilarity like every problem we have.

Nah.

So, admin here who might care about finding ways to gently (or otherwise) encourage positive change on the server. Give me your best summary, in one paragraph or less, of what I as an admin can actually do about the problems you personally sense with Security to make it better, in whatever way you think is better. More fun, stronger, less fascist, whatever your outlook is.

I'll give you bullet points

- Less Events and Admin fuckery
- Reduced Antag Numbers (Seriously 1/4 of the players on the server being traitor in one round is fucking dumb)
- Restrict/scale round types depending on sec population. Disable conversion modes if less than 3 security.
- Enforce some kind of standard of play where fucking with security because you're bored isn't kosher. Just let sec either cave their skulls in from the word go or have some kind of policy around it.

[Scott]

It's almost like this is a hyper-diverse community with a ton of perspectives and one of them isn't The Only Correct One That Must Be Enforced At Any Cost.

It's almost like the problems are being exaggerated to the point of insane weeping hilarity like every problem we have.

Nah.

So, admin here who might care about finding ways to gently (or otherwise) encourage positive change on the server. Give me your best summary, in one paragraph or less, of what I as an admin can actually do about the problems you personally sense with Security to make it better, in whatever way you think is better. More fun, stronger, less fascist, whatever your outlook is.

Tell sec players they don't own the station and to relax a little.

[Zilenan91]

Sec in cult is the worst experience anyone could have in this game. It's absolutely fucking horrendously awful.

[Tornadium]

It's almost like this is a hyper-diverse community with a ton of perspectives and one of them isn't The Only Correct One That Must Be Enforced At Any Cost.

It's almost like the problems are being exaggerated to the point of insane weeping hilarity like every problem we have.

Nah.

So, admin here who might care about finding ways to gently (or otherwise) encourage positive change on the server. Give me your best summary, in one paragraph or less, of what I as an admin can actually do about the problems you personally sense with Security to make it better, in whatever way you think is better. More fun, stronger, less fascist, whatever your outlook is.

Tell sec players they don't own the station and to relax a little.

If you want people to play the role then you have to do something.

Else just remove the department.

[Actionb]

Wait what. Why is this in the cuck shed.

[Zilenan91]

The entire topic is just talking about a nebulous issue that can't be solved without redesigning how the entire game functions so

[Zilenan91]

I am serious though, a lot of people are saying that sec feels like it's everyone against you and you actually can't do anything about that without redesigning the station and many of the modes to stop that.

Then again it is in the cuck shed now so who cares.

[srifenbyxp]

It should be mandated that any players wanting to be a security officer needs to be voted into the job or have a physical security license like me and tedward.

[Zellion]

NICE CUCK SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
can we just move all security related topics to the cuck shed on their creation to save everyone the effort?

[Alipheese]

Having played warden all last night. During a nuke op, cult, and traitor rounds, being only 2-3 sec total, it wasnt that bad.

Medpop, dealt with minor issues with clown, gangbangs of assault and theft. It wasnt an issue as the few sec gave the small shit a slide. But when the nukies or traitors pop up we bashed doctors out of our way and got the job done. Besides the nuke ops round I was acting hos, people respected sec and i personally took time to talk to people and make sure there was a lesson learned without issue or fight.

Abit better average that highpop but still nice. Taking a personal approach went well it seemed to me.

Oh. And i need to upload a video where I taught John Cooper about horses with broken legs.

[Incomptinence]

Honestly HG stop enabling your pet cucks. You need to be stern with them or their micropenises will start working again.

[oranges]

cuck shed

Security has no responsibilities

to the cuck shed we go

What the fuck, could you all keep your oh so snappy and edgy one-liners to yourself for once? Nobody gives a shit about your 'opinion' if you can't even be arsed to give a short explanation as to why you think you're written display of mental diarrhea is even remotely appropriate.

People are actually concerned about the state security currently is in/has been in for years and want to discuss possibilities to make life better for those willing to try and play a redshirt - if you're not caring about this or can't be bothered to read the whole thread, then DON'T CHIME IN.
Half-assed posts are the reason a lot of valid feedback and suggestions threads degenerate into a spammy off-topic meme fest.

Enjoying the shed my friend?

[Tornadium]

cuck shed

Security has no responsibilities

to the cuck shed we go

What the fuck, could you all keep your oh so snappy and edgy one-liners to yourself for once? Nobody gives a shit about your 'opinion' if you can't even be arsed to give a short explanation as to why you think you're written display of mental diarrhea is even remotely appropriate.

People are actually concerned about the state security currently is in/has been in for years and want to discuss possibilities to make life better for those willing to try and play a redshirt - if you're not caring about this or can't be bothered to read the whole thread, then DON'T CHIME IN.
Half-assed posts are the reason a lot of valid feedback and suggestions threads degenerate into a spammy off-topic meme fest.

Enjoying the shed my friend?

I don't think he quite understands the shed is designed to shut down threads that the meme crowd doesn't agree with.

[paprika]

Replace security with deathsquad that the captain can call

[Steelpoint]

I'm very disappointed in how this thread was moved to the cuck shed.

I won't bother detailing my feelings on this issue because it would be a waste of time.

I'm requesting this thread be locked, since its clear many people don't seem to care about the subject matter at all.

[onleavedontatme]

Steelpoint if you truly believe that any hearts and minds will be won by this thread, or that it's gonna lead anywhere productive, I will put this back in the feedback forum.

EDIT: I didn't move this thread here, but I did reply "sure why not" if asked if it should be, as I'm sure you'll wonder after reading this.

[PKPenguin321]

welcome to the cuck shed mother fucker

[Steelpoint]

Either this is moved back to its original sub forum or I'll just close it.

This is not a shit post thread, keep that to singulo.

[Steelpoint]

Thank you Kor.

I think if we examined the best and worst of sec you'll find game modes such as Gang, Rev, Cult and the new Ratvar tend to bring out the worst in security as well as heavily pressure sec to go all in. Other game modes like traitor, Nuke Ops, traitorling and similar don't do this as much.

If I were to suggest anything it would be to scale down on the prominence of conversion game modes, give security more loyalty implants and a flask of holy water at round start, as well as be more leneinet towards security during admin events. As well as praise and possibly reward good security play to individual players.

[Actionb]

@HBL
Can we maybe start with a server poll (over maybe a week or two) about how the players feel the current situation around security is?
You know, just to verify whether or not this thread actually has any merit.

Also why is it that the thread was moved to the cuck shed due to some unrelated spam, instead of deleting the spam itself (unless it was indeed moved there to simply put an end to the discussion, in which case how childish can you get)? People are actually trying to have a conversation here.

[Malkevin]

To be honest just get rid of the conversion rune and make holy water quicker at identifying cultists.

Make cult magic nuke ops that are already on station.

[Incomptinence]

We tried that with cult squad and constructs being the only converts and it was really dull malk maybe you weren't playing when that happened. Basically I think magic squad could work but you would need to basically retool the gear and methods so much that it basically becomes demiwizards that can make mechs or some shit and at that point you basically made a whole new round type with old branding.

[Steelpoint]

If we wanted some good changes for sec during conversion game modes I would suggest the following.

• Holy Water is near instant at detecting if someone is or is not a cultist, right now your better off killing the person with 100 units of Holy Water.
• Using a loyalty implant on a gang head/similar should not destroy the implant but simply not consume the implant at all. Losing even a single implant in a game mode where implants are in short supply and you need two to fully make someone loyal is absolutely horrible.
• Give Security a bone and toss them one flask of holy water (rename it to something more sec thematic). Its barely going to deconvert one or two people and it'll help for early game cult.

Another radical idea I have is issuing the armoury with some anti-stun chemicals, such as Synaptazine, Ephdrine and Anti-Toxin so they can set themselves up with some form of anti-stun defense via chemical implants.

[Actionb]

• Holy Water is near instant at detecting if someone is or is not a cultist, right now your better off killing the person with 100 units of Holy Water.
• Using a loyalty implant on a gang head/similar should not destroy the implant but simply not consume the implant at all. Losing even a single implant in a game mode where implants are in short supply and you need two to fully make someone loyal is absolutely horrible.
• Give Security a bone and toss them one flask of holy water (rename it to something more sec thematic). Its barely going to deconvert one or two people and it'll help for early game cult.

Yes.
Small things like these can take pressure off security in stressful moments.
Also call the security holy water 'validsalad dressing'.

Another radical idea I have is issuing the armoury with some anti-stun chemicals, such as Synaptazine, Ephdrine and Anti-Toxin so they can set themselves up with some form of anti-stun defense via chemical implants.

No.
Security doesn't need to start with low budget adrenals.

[Malkevin]

The more I keep playing the more I realise that the issues of security today are that the playerbase has finally devolved into the h-u-g-box memetards I predicted it would become years ago.
No one wants to play security because the concept of playing an authority position (including captain I've noticed) is completely alien to the paint huffers that just want to run around and smear shit everywhere.

Security is redundant and outdated - might as well remove it.

[Scott]

What we need is Bluecurity, with their stylish uniforms and loyalty only to the Law.

[Lumbermancer]

No.

[Takeguru]

It's definitely a player problem

Why play security and deal with stress when you can just load up as a grey shirt, make a stunprod, and win the game?

[Lumbermancer]

And people who do grey tide usually have nothing to lose attitude. Wew, you put me in cell for 10 minutes or in gulag? I'll just go catatonic and fish for memeantags instead.

[Steelpoint]

Hence why I think there should be greater incentives to remain and play well as a member of security.

Right now if your looking to get some antag kicks you better off ghosting and picking up one of many antag roles from there, or you can run off in literally any other non-security/command role and have some fun doing whatever, construction, gimmicks, role play or hunting.

[Tornadium]

The more I keep playing the more I realise that the issues of security today are that the playerbase has finally devolved into the h-u-g-box memetards I predicted it would become years ago.
No one wants to play security because the concept of playing an authority position (including captain I've noticed) is completely alien to the paint huffers that just want to run around and smear shit everywhere.

Security is redundant and outdated - might as well remove it.

[cocothegogo]

my biggest gripe with security is when you're dragging someone cuffed and some guy just steal him and you cant catch them cause you run the same speed as them. i think that we should make it so that when you're pulling someone you move slightly slower than top running speed

[Pilgrim]

Would it be possible to remove the number that indicates how many security officers are playing when you click join game? I feel that I'd be more willing to sign up as a security officer if I didn't know there was only one other guy there.

[Scott]

That's just tricking the players into a position they don't want.

[Davidchan]

Remove assistant, increase Security Officer role openings to 999

[BeeSting12]

Earlier in the thread, someone asked why I play sec. There's really no reason you should. Your armor is cardboard, any greyshirt can get weapons just as good as your's, and you're pretty much forced to play gamemodes you don't like. I play for the challenge. Its easy to hack into secure areas and then run from the lone detective that is there for security that round. Its much harder to catch criminals and put them in the brig. Problem is, playing sec is cancerous on conversion based modes and blob. And boring on extended, unless the greyshirts decide to revolt, making it cancerous. There really needs to be a minimum sec requirement for conversion based modes, and blob needs to go. Blob is pretty much *suicide, the mode. Ways to improve sec so more will actually play it:
-Give each officer a lethal sidearm. Just a laser pistol or something, it could be a lifesaver when you're being mobbed.
-Incentives to play. Such as antag tokens for the best sec player that round.
-Give security more access. Its ridiculous to wait for the HoP to give you access or the AI to open. HoS level access without the armory, command stuff, and HoS office would be best.
-Give more bans to the people who mess with sec too much as nonantag.
-Minimum sec requirement for any mode with antags. Might encourage people to play security, or you'll have a bunch of extended rounds.
I just got killed again on low security. It seriously sucks that you're outnumbered by a bunch of people that make it their mission to screw with sec.

[Takeguru]

Minimum sec requirement for any mode with antags. Might encourage people to play security, or you'll have a bunch of extended rounds.

That's an awful idea
I play mostly low pop out of choice, and this would ruin low pop

Forced to have, what, 3 sec roles to have antags pop, when it's already a challenge to even have engineers?

[onleavedontatme]

And boring on extended, unless the greyshirts decide to revolt, making it cancerous

The SS13 feedback cycle in a nut shell. Boring if you're not being killed, cancerous when you are.

[Malkevin]

Extended isn't boring for sec, the crew will eventually get bored and create 'entertainment' for you.

[FranzKrake]

This community is so deeply divided with their opinions that the whole security debate is nothing but a farce. You have people that want to play the roles, respect the chain of command, don't want vandalism etc. Then you have people that want to maximize FUN above all, including breaking in and stealing every piece of gear you want at any given point in time.

This resulted in a very vague perception of what the role of Security is within the game and is respective modes. Fun Police? Vidhunter? Powertripping? Space Law?
What is acceptable and what not as Officer means something else for everyone. Until this problem is resolved and there is a clear and accepted set ot Dos and Donts for
Security players, these shitpost discussions will go on into all eternity.

Since nobody, not the wiki or Space Law "Its just a guideline bro", has given me proper answers to those questions, I have devised a playstyle of my own as Security Officer which is fun for me as well as the guys Im engaged with during the round and which I consider acceptable. I dont have the time to pen it all down but I will point out that it took me quite a while to figure out how to play Sec and that the LACK OF CLARITY OF PURPOSE for the roles is the biggest pitfall that makes Sec so unattractive.

You need to streamline Space Law into a more pragmatic and accepted Dos and Donts list, you need to give Security players a clear objective (My personal objectives are maintaining Order and protecting the Crew) and you need to discourage shitters (People that play Sec to powertrip and abuse other players for example) and encourage a respectful and fun interaction between crew and Sec.
What I would love to see, and what I am striving for, successfully on Basil, is that going to Sec with issues is a viable alternative to making a spear and stabbing the guys eyes out that has done you unjust. "He hit me, then I took his X, bla bla bla" Circle of Grief type of deals. I deal a lot with these Issues and people PDA me a lot about these issues when I play Sec, because people trust and respect me, something that I have earned over time, something that your guides and guidelines completely fail to bring across. The possibility to approach Sec for issues rather than succumbing to the Circle of Grief makes rounds more enjoyable for everyone.

Finally, you need to get clearer about the the limitations and donts for non antag when interacting with Sec. I know for a fact that anything with a red uniform and "Security Officer" ID is perceived by many players as the ultimate no-no. They stop you from stealing stuff, they dont want you to walk into the armory and get that egun, theyre a bunch of a-holes. So you need to fight, sabotage, undermine and robust Sec Officers at every opportunity. Where is the limitations here for non antags? Not killing them? I do not think that this is enough. I think that actively griefing people that play Sec on a regular basis should be discouraged and punished.
Attitudes towards sec vary a lot, from mildy friendly on Basil to "lel shitcurity" on Sybil. What are you gonna do about this?

You guys are a communtiy that is deeply divided and the only thing that keeps shit together is a string of red tape and the regulars/admins. If you want these endless shitpost discussions to end, agree on a universal policy for Sec and implent it. It is way overdue.

[Lumbermancer]

Every time I try to be polite and lenient it comes back to bite me in the ass.

[Wyzack]

You have to balance politeness with robustness and preparedness. Yes you will get shit on sometimes for it, but nothing feels better than properly playing your role nicely and then dunking the shit out of someone when they try to take advantage of it. Trust no one and always be ready to kick ass

[Lumbermancer]

Well that's why I always try to explain that I taste+cuff first, ask question later for my own protection.

[Wyzack]

If you have reason to fear someone has done something suspicious it is always smart to tase cuff first to prevent getting dunked on, but i have also found that people are generally surprisingly cooperative if you just talk to them. It is a good way to get intel anyways.

[Tornadium]

I absolutely never talk beyond radioing for backup until we have everyone in custody and we're all safe before I even begin to talk to a suspect.

If you try to be nice and roleplay an arrest out or talk to someone they will do one of two things

A. Run while you're trying
B. Stun/Disarm whatever you

I think I've maybe had someone be co-operative and helpful maybe twice in 5 years if I talk to them without cuffing first.

[Wyzack]

>Sybil

dont know what to tell you m8

[paprika]

The more I keep playing the more I realise that the issues of security today are that the playerbase has finally devolved into the h-u-g-box memetards I predicted it would become years ago.
No one wants to play security because the concept of playing an authority position (including captain I've noticed) is completely alien to the paint huffers that just want to run around and smear shit everywhere.

Security is redundant and outdated - might as well remove it.

This is pretty much what I think of the situation now, Malkevin really makes a good point here.

If people want to let the crew deal with antags and antaghunt just let them. Sec just gets in the way at this point.

If the crew dealt with antags themselves we could just scale back the amount of crazy overpowered shit the antags have (that were meant for dealing with sec) and then the crew can get buffs to their job-effectiveness (rnd can have more powerful shit for example, since there won't be the armory).

It's a REALLY LARGE UNDERTAKING to remove security though, and considering this would only be an 'experiment' and a temporary thing (the playerbase would never, ever accept sec being removed permanently) you'd need a coder with the authority willing to do it.

COUGH CHERIDAN COUGH

[WarbossLincoln]

my biggest gripe with security is when you're dragging someone cuffed and some guy just steal him and you cant catch them cause you run the same speed as them. i think that we should make it so that when you're pulling someone you move slightly slower than top running speed

This shit is fucking infuriating. I perma anyone who does this unless they have a damn good reason, like a legitimate reason to think the officer was rogue or something.

Extended isn't boring for sec, the crew will eventually get bored and create 'entertainment' for you.

This is true, look at any stealth ops round. You'll spend half the round jailing shitheads for stupid things until someone gets shot by an Op. And that can be fun, jailing people for the stupid things they do is half the fun of sec. There's just a fine line between some assistant being annoying and some guy who thinks it's just a prank to spread 1000 bluespace tomatos in the hall.

You have to balance politeness with robustness and preparedness. Yes you will get shit on sometimes for it, but nothing feels better than properly playing your role nicely and then dunking the shit out of someone when they try to take advantage of it. Trust no one and always be ready to kick ass

This is absolutely true. Talk softly but carry a big stun baton. I try to show people that I can be reasonable when I'm playing sec but that I'm really harsh on shitheads. I can't tell you how many times I've released someone as warden and as soon as the cuffs come off they disarm spam me. When that happens 50% chance I give them 5-10 more minutes, 50% chance I perma them, depends on my mood. The big one is when I let someone go early. That shit is stupid. It's fairly often that I'll let someone go early, or let them go completely for things like petty theft, etc. But It's not uncommon at all to tell a guy "Ok, don't do it again, you can go free" and then they disarm spam you instantly when the cuffs come off. I always perma for that. That's the cancerous, illogical anti-sec attitude on Sybil. Treat someone nice and they still see you a loot pinata.

[Wyzack]

I also make a point of not holding people for no reason, especially as Warden.

If someone was set to arrest and they get tagged and brought in I will ask over the sec radio why they were set to arrest. I will do this a couple times. If no one can be fucked to respond to me then out the door they go, not worth wasting my time over

[Scott]

Test no Security for a week.

[Ezel]

Test no Security for a week.

No greytide for a week