Stun overhaul/nerf

[J_Madison]

Bottom post of the previous page:

If an idea is good or not has jack shit to do with how often someone connected to this server.

It's very relevant, actually. Please go complain to bay/goonstation coders how you don't like /tg/station features and see what they say.

This is a problem with HIS server that he has access to change, he can completely remove any and all stuns as much as he sees fit. He has essentially zero insight as to how rounds play out on OUR servers, what the current "meta" strategies are for antags and security, and likely doesn't have the extreme population that we regularly push.

I've regularly had double if not triple the population of Basil for the last week, population is not an issue until you push to 40-60+ in which it's a different story and requires more use of flashbang.

Yes I'm a metastation player and yes it's different. Our metastrategies are different too, but most importantly the base code we use is /tg/station.

[Saegrimr]

I've regularly had double if not triple the population of Basil,

Congrats, you've managed to surpass an average of 8 players.

population is not an issue until you push to 40-60+ in which it's a different story and requires more use of flashbang.

Welcome to the majority of rounds on Sybil. We dro to around 30 players average during our weakest hours.

but most importantly the base code we use is /tg/station.

And you have full ability to modify that code to suit your own needs on your own server.

[J_Madison]

I've regularly had double if not triple the population of Basil,

Congrats, you've managed to surpass an average of 8 players.

population is not an issue until you push to 40-60+ in which it's a different story and requires more use of flashbang.

Welcome to the majority of rounds on Sybil. We dro to around 30 players average during our weakest hours.

but most importantly the base code we use is /tg/station.

And you have full ability to modify that code to suit your own needs on your own server.

Oh boy here we go.

Yeah I do. Most of the base code is unchanged.

What're you trying to get at?
That an addition 20 assistants or 30 non-important jobs on the station makes this stun change different?
That because I'm not a /tg/ clone that my opinion doesn't matter.

The only difference is the greytides are worst and you're never alone. Maybe you'll get some dumbass disarm spam whilst you arrest but things are negligible at this point.

[Wyzack]

How is disarm spam negligible? The shitter you are trying to arrest can take your weapon and run off with it, or even better stun you with it and use it to turn the tables and kill you

[Saegrimr]

What're you trying to get at?
That an addition 20 assistants or 30 non-important jobs on the station makes this stun change different?

Yes, not even flashbangs will stop them if they care enough. Hell, pulling out the flashbangs is more likely to get you mobbed because pissed off people who are now deaf want to slap your shit for making them deaf.

That because I'm not a /tg/ clone that my opinion doesn't matter.

I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter. I'm saying your opinion is skewed on an entirely different playerbase, with a different playstyle, largely different population, and different rules.

Maybe you'll get some dumbass disarm spam whilst you arrest but things are negligible at this point.

And you really want to not be able to taze that dumbass to get him to fuck off while you're trying to finish putting cuffs on a guy?

[CPTANT]

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

[Saegrimr]

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Good, congrats, and I trust you have a good view on how the average round here plays out and can make educated arguments as to what changes would work for our server and not someone else's.

[Tornadium]

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

I disagree entirely.

Good luck being able to do jack shit as Security. Get attacked by more than 1 person? Good luck being able to keep them down long enough to do anything.

The only way this would work is allowing Sec to go full lethal vs more than one opponent at any time.

[Amelius]

> Person from a totally different server, probably at half the population, at most, and a totally different culture and gamestyle is providing suggestions for Sybil.

-10/10. Your ideas are shit and your argument is shit. Especially this nugget

Frankly, if you're not willing to put consideration to understanding how this would change the game and instead going to attack the proposed changes with strawmen and ad homs, I'm not interested.

I mean, I wrote a goddamn blob of text describing how it will make certain roundtypes absolutely shit in terms of balance, and your response didn't combat these issues whatsoever, but just said 'stuns are boring' as a rationale, as if that justifies throwing the entire balance off for the entire game, without any suggestions as to how to improve it. What's your endgame? You have your own server, why try to push it on the main codebase on a different server with a different culture and a much much higher population and a different station and meta.

Are you implying that you should be able to murderbone with anything?

No, but you damn well should be able to kill anyone with basically anything. The thing that made this game interesting for me is that no matter how well-equipped you were, you could be robusted by anyone, even an assistant with a simple toolbox, easily. I've detailed all my points, and you have yet to counter them.

As you yourself admitted, most people are NEVER alone on mid-high pop, which is normal for Sybil. That means antagonists need solid ways, through station / job selective equipment or otherwise, to control situations and handle multiple enemies at once (or vice versa, through sec's eyes in collective game modes), which your proposal does not have any form of response to, aside from using mystical AoE CC that won't last very long and comes in very limited stock.

Just leave.

[CPTANT]

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

I disagree entirely.

Good luck being able to do jack shit as Security. Get attacked by more than 1 person? Good luck being able to keep them down long enough to do anything.

The only way this would work is allowing Sec to go full lethal vs more than one opponent at any time.

Like I already said I want this combined with a buff to disablers and to lasers.

lethals SHOULD become a more attractive choice in group fights.

[J_Madison]

How is disarm spam negligible? The shitter you are trying to arrest can take your weapon and run off with it, or even better stun you with it and use it to turn the tables and kill you

It's greytiding, and I don't see it often occur. And it occurs on most/all servers anyway - a shitter assistant will always exist.
If you're holding out a weapon except for when you're making an arrest, you should except to be slipped or have your gun stolen.

Not only that, but the issue of getting stunned and killed for your negligence only exists on /tg/. This fix would end that problem.

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

I understand. I think your stun duration changes are much better than my suggested since mine are... quite extreme to be an understatement.

What're you trying to get at?
That an addition 20 assistants or 30 non-important jobs on the station makes this stun change different?

Yes, not even flashbangs will stop them if they care enough. Hell, pulling out the flashbangs is more likely to get you mobbed because pissed off people who are now deaf want to slap your shit for making them deaf.

That because I'm not a /tg/ clone that my opinion doesn't matter.

I'm not saying your opinion doesn't matter. I'm saying your opinion is skewed on an entirely different playerbase, with a different playstyle, largely different population, and different rules.

Maybe you'll get some dumbass disarm spam whilst you arrest but things are negligible at this point.

And you really want to not be able to taze that dumbass to get him to fuck off while you're trying to finish putting cuffs on a guy?

First point is a playerbase and greytide problem.

Second point is that it's a negligible difference. Whilst I have a high tolerance for powergaming and shittery, the powergaming playstyle isn't much different aside from my belief that our powergamers are far worse, and the rules bar ERP based rules are hardly different.

If a greytide is fucking with you whilst you arrest on my stun changes, you should probably drop a flashbang or stun him. It takes less than 2 seconds to disable someone. You can definitely stun two people and almost disable two completely in that time.

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

I disagree entirely.

Good luck being able to do jack shit as Security. Get attacked by more than 1 person? Good luck being able to keep them down long enough to do anything.

The only way this would work is allowing Sec to go full lethal vs more than one opponent at any time.

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

[Tornadium]

Well I play sybil virtually exclusively and I say this is not a bad idea. Happy?

Everyone on the server is whining for ages that combat is too stun heavy. A slight nerf to stun times and a buff to lethal weapons would definitely mitigate that problem.

I disagree entirely.

Good luck being able to do jack shit as Security. Get attacked by more than 1 person? Good luck being able to keep them down long enough to do anything.

The only way this would work is allowing Sec to go full lethal vs more than one opponent at any time.

Like I already said I want this combined with a buff to disablers and to lasers.

lethals SHOULD become a more attractive choice in group fights.

Disablers are simply not effective enough.

It takes multiple hits to bring ONE target down. Good luck doing jack shit vs multiple targets with ballistic weapons or hell even just being rushed by a group of people.

You seriously fucking think this is a good idea?

[Tornadium]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

[J_Madison]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

[Tornadium]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

[J_Madison]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

[Amelius]

Not only that, but the issue of getting stunned and killed for your negligence only exists on /tg/. This fix would end that problem.

> Let's get on the kiddie gloves to make it so that idiots can run around with guns with NO DOWNSIDES1!

The rest of your post was just as bad. Just why. We don't need this, you don't play here, so just go away and stop suggesting policy when you have no stake in us.

[Tornadium]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

Do you still not understand how nerfing stuns to this level turns it into a numbers game?

Like legitimately, All of their default equipment will be next to worthless against any sizable rev, cult or gang force as well as things like Wizard. Hell even enough greytide shitlers and sec gets overran.

Do we want to start encouraging sec to go grab chloral at round start? Is that really what we want to do?

[J_Madison]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

Do you still not understand how nerfing stuns to this level turns it into a numbers game?

Like legitimately, All of their default equipment will be next to worthless against any sizable rev, cult or gang force as well as things like Wizard. Hell even enough greytide shitlers and sec gets overran.

Do we want to start encouraging sec to go grab chloral at round start? Is that really what we want to do?

I understand fully how nerfing these stuns work, I understand it because the successes of the stun nerf directly comes from tested proof.

These numbers work. I know they sound foreign to you, I know you don't like them, but they work.

Like I've said, individual stuns from a stun gun should NOT be able to beat out culists. That is the wrong piece of equipment to use.
Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Flashbangs are AOE. Flashbangs last up to 10 seconds. Flashbangs are for any "sizable force".

Anything aside from that, you use LETHAL FORCE.

Against wizard, you use lethal force.


I don't think you understand. I think this is a strawman. Just because a single taser is no longer capable of subduing a 5:1 greytide, doesn't mean it's useless, doesn't mean the nerf didn't work, doesn't mean security is no longer prepared.

When there's a 5:1 greytide, you use lethal force and you use area of affect weapons. You don't use a single taser.

[Tornadium]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

Do you still not understand how nerfing stuns to this level turns it into a numbers game?

Like legitimately, All of their default equipment will be next to worthless against any sizable rev, cult or gang force as well as things like Wizard. Hell even enough greytide shitlers and sec gets overran.

Do we want to start encouraging sec to go grab chloral at round start? Is that really what we want to do?

I understand fully how nerfing these stuns work, I understand it because the successes of the stun nerf directly comes from tested proof.

These numbers work. I know they sound foreign to you, I know you don't like them, but they work.

Like I've said, individual stuns from a stun gun should NOT be able to beat out culists. That is the wrong piece of equipment to use.
Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Flashbangs are AOE. Flashbangs last up to 10 seconds. Flashbangs are for any "sizable force".

Anything aside from that, you use LETHAL FORCE.

Against wizard, you use lethal force.


I don't think you understand. I think this is a strawman. Just because a single taser is no longer capable of subduing a 5:1 greytide, doesn't mean it's useless, doesn't mean the nerf didn't work, doesn't mean security is no longer prepared.

When there's a 5:1 greytide, you use lethal force and you use area of affect weapons. You don't use a single taser.

God you're fucking retarded. They don't fucking work.

Numbers counter the taser as it stands already. People use flashbangs and they still get fucked up. Know why? You very rarely if ever hit EVERY opposing threat with a single flashbang. You will most likely catch other officers in the flashbang radius leading to weapons getting dropped leading to the one shithead who has flashbang protection or whoever managed show up grabbing the fallen weapons and coming at you.

News flash, antag lethals are very fucking effective. Lasers? Not so much.

Against a decent wizard you don't have a chance to use lethal force, more often than not a wizard is caught through a chem syringe or by him fucking up.

Also who the fuck can subdue 5 greytiders with a taser?

You can fucking stop them for a few seconds but you can't subdue them 5-1. You can tase and run, that's about it.

[J_Madison]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

Do you still not understand how nerfing stuns to this level turns it into a numbers game?

Like legitimately, All of their default equipment will be next to worthless against any sizable rev, cult or gang force as well as things like Wizard. Hell even enough greytide shitlers and sec gets overran.

Do we want to start encouraging sec to go grab chloral at round start? Is that really what we want to do?

I understand fully how nerfing these stuns work, I understand it because the successes of the stun nerf directly comes from tested proof.

These numbers work. I know they sound foreign to you, I know you don't like them, but they work.

Like I've said, individual stuns from a stun gun should NOT be able to beat out culists. That is the wrong piece of equipment to use.
Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Flashbangs are AOE. Flashbangs last up to 10 seconds. Flashbangs are for any "sizable force".

Anything aside from that, you use LETHAL FORCE.

Against wizard, you use lethal force.


I don't think you understand. I think this is a strawman. Just because a single taser is no longer capable of subduing a 5:1 greytide, doesn't mean it's useless, doesn't mean the nerf didn't work, doesn't mean security is no longer prepared.

When there's a 5:1 greytide, you use lethal force and you use area of affect weapons. You don't use a single taser.

God you're fucking retarded. They don't fucking work.

Numbers counter the taser as it stands already. People use flashbangs and they still get fucked up. Know why? You very rarely if ever hit EVERY opposing threat with a single flashbang. You will most likely catch other officers in the flashbang radius leading to weapons getting dropped leading to the one shithead who has flashbang protection or whoever managed show up grabbing the fallen weapons and coming at you.

News flash, antag lethals are very fucking effective. Lasers? Not so much.

Against a decent wizard you don't have a chance to use lethal force, more often than not a wizard is caught through a chem syringe or by him fucking up.

Also who the fuck can subdue 5 greytiders with a taser?

You can fucking stop them for a few seconds but you can't subdue them 5-1. You can tase and run, that's about it.

They don't work you say? They've been tested for over 2 months, if anything they do work.
You're acting as if you support tasers being able to stun for eons of time.

I so very doubt the security on Sybil or Basil are so unrobust that they're unable to throw a flashbang right. All security staff bar the lawyer have access to Bowman and Hudsunglasses.


You don't like the effectiveness of lasers? Make a thread to buff lasers. Make a pull request to buff lasers. Lethal force as it stands works fine.

Against a decent wizard, effectively one of the best weapons is fast stamina damage and that comes in form as something called "Riot Shotgun".

The last posts you were complaining about how this nerf to the taser will make it useless in a scenario against a group/mob. You're not meant to use a taser against a mob. That's a flashbang, you use a flashbang against a mob of people.

No shit you're not meant to use a taser when outnumbered.


But you wanna know what this stun nerf does do?
During a greytide, if a security officer gets stunned by a prod or by a taser, he's not immediately screwed. Why? Because the stun doesn't last for centuries. He has a fighting chance.

The stun nerf is for an individual use. You don't use taser stuns against mobs.

[Amelius]

Last thing I'll say in this thread because this guy is a massive chucklefuck and can't just fuck off, he has to try to enforce his changes on a completely different server, culture, mindset, population and meta just because. You say it works, but it only works on YOUR server with a quarter the pop of Sybil.

Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Okay. The cult robusts two officers and takes their HUDs and headset. Suddenly the station is fucked because you have two undefeatable obstacles alongside 2 others. As-is, you CAN use flashbangs, but tasers work OK if there's only 3-, you have amazing aim, and you're arresting 1 and running.

[quote="J_Madison]
You don't like the effectiveness of lasers? Make a thread to buff lasers. Make a pull request to buff lasers. Lethal force as it stands works fine.
[/quote]

Why the fuck would we fuck up the entire balance of the game then try to rebalance it around those changes, when we have good balance right now? That's what you're literally proposing. Changing shit for the sake of it.

God, please lock this topic, this shit is dumb and I don't want anyone to seriously consider such retarded thought.

[Tornadium]

Well, maybe we should give security officers rapid syringe guns full of morphine/zombiepowder/chloral hydrate to keep them down in this case.

-

Hell, just for everyone, why not use CPTANT's stuntimes as posted in page one and buff damage on laser weapons and the amount of times they can be shot?

Are you intentionally trying to be retarded?

You asked for more ways to subdue.

And you gave a snarky answer which would never be acceptable in 100 years.

I'm sorry, I've gotten some snarky responses and extreme hostility to an opinion.

I believe that security should be able to access lethals under special conditions, but currently there should be more methods to detail and subdue suspects.

One of the most powerful, are chemical weapons but they are seldom used by security.
I also believe that stuns should be nerfed to ensure that a single stun will never result in death or immediate cuffing.

Do you still not understand how nerfing stuns to this level turns it into a numbers game?

Like legitimately, All of their default equipment will be next to worthless against any sizable rev, cult or gang force as well as things like Wizard. Hell even enough greytide shitlers and sec gets overran.

Do we want to start encouraging sec to go grab chloral at round start? Is that really what we want to do?

I understand fully how nerfing these stuns work, I understand it because the successes of the stun nerf directly comes from tested proof.

These numbers work. I know they sound foreign to you, I know you don't like them, but they work.

Like I've said, individual stuns from a stun gun should NOT be able to beat out culists. That is the wrong piece of equipment to use.
Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Flashbangs are AOE. Flashbangs last up to 10 seconds. Flashbangs are for any "sizable force".

Anything aside from that, you use LETHAL FORCE.

Against wizard, you use lethal force.


I don't think you understand. I think this is a strawman. Just because a single taser is no longer capable of subduing a 5:1 greytide, doesn't mean it's useless, doesn't mean the nerf didn't work, doesn't mean security is no longer prepared.

When there's a 5:1 greytide, you use lethal force and you use area of affect weapons. You don't use a single taser.

God you're fucking retarded. They don't fucking work.

Numbers counter the taser as it stands already. People use flashbangs and they still get fucked up. Know why? You very rarely if ever hit EVERY opposing threat with a single flashbang. You will most likely catch other officers in the flashbang radius leading to weapons getting dropped leading to the one shithead who has flashbang protection or whoever managed show up grabbing the fallen weapons and coming at you.

News flash, antag lethals are very fucking effective. Lasers? Not so much.

Against a decent wizard you don't have a chance to use lethal force, more often than not a wizard is caught through a chem syringe or by him fucking up.

Also who the fuck can subdue 5 greytiders with a taser?

You can fucking stop them for a few seconds but you can't subdue them 5-1. You can tase and run, that's about it.

They don't work you say? They've been tested for over 2 months, if anything they do work.
You're acting as if you support tasers being able to stun for eons of time.

I so very doubt the security on Sybil or Basil are so unrobust that they're unable to throw a flashbang right. All security staff bar the lawyer have access to Bowman and Hudsunglasses.


You don't like the effectiveness of lasers? Make a thread to buff lasers. Make a pull request to buff lasers. Lethal force as it stands works fine.

Against a decent wizard, effectively one of the best weapons is fast stamina damage and that comes in form as something called "Riot Shotgun".

The last posts you were complaining about how this nerf to the taser will make it useless in a scenario against a group/mob. You're not meant to use a taser against a mob. That's a flashbang, you use a flashbang against a mob of people.

No shit you're not meant to use a taser when outnumbered.


But you wanna know what this stun nerf does do?
During a greytide, if a security officer gets stunned by a prod or by a taser, he's not immediately screwed. Why? Because the stun doesn't last for centuries. He has a fighting chance.

The stun nerf is for an individual use. You don't use taser stuns against mobs.

God you're fucking retarded.

I give up. Fuck off.

[PKPenguin321]

>We want the game to be less hug-box!

>Let's make stuns so unviable that people can't die from 99% of the fights that they would have died in previously, because dying to stuns sucks!

>This game is so hug-box. We should have more death! Less hug-box!

>Let's make stuns not work so we die less!


MAKE UP YOUR MIND REEEEEEEE

When did I say I didn't like dying?

you basically said you didnt like dying as soon as you suggested making the biggest part of combat nonviable
you literally stated a scenario where the warden got stunprodded and cuffed, as it stands that warden is going to die pretty much guaranteed without intervention
shitting on stuns makes him not die
you also stated a scenario where the HoS evades death by lasers because stuns are too weak to keep people down long enough to kill
you're literally pushing to make stuns less lethal and now you're saying that they'll be just as lethal when they're very clearly not????

Those scenarios are more about having a fair fight than anything.

something people need to learn about this game is that it isn't supposed to be "fair"
at least half of the legendary stories that convince people to play the game in the first place are stories about a man in a grey jumpsuit fighting off armed gunmen with a blue toolbox
if combat was "fair" those stories wouldn't exist and the game loses its appeal

[J_Madison]

>We want the game to be less hug-box!

>Let's make stuns so unviable that people can't die from 99% of the fights that they would have died in previously, because dying to stuns sucks!

>This game is so hug-box. We should have more death! Less hug-box!

>Let's make stuns not work so we die less!


MAKE UP YOUR MIND REEEEEEEE

When did I say I didn't like dying?

you basically said you didnt like dying as soon as you suggested making the biggest part of combat nonviable
you literally stated a scenario where the warden got stunprodded and cuffed, as it stands that warden is going to die pretty much guaranteed without intervention
shitting on stuns makes him not die
you also stated a scenario where the HoS evades death by lasers because stuns are too weak to keep people down long enough to kill
you're literally pushing to make stuns less lethal and now you're saying that they'll be just as lethal when they're very clearly not????

Those scenarios are more about having a fair fight than anything.

something people need to learn about this game is that it isn't supposed to be "fair"
at least half of the legendary stories that convince people to play the game in the first place are stories about a man in a grey jumpsuit beating off armed gunmen with a blue toolbox
if combat was "fair" those stories wouldn't exist and the game loses its appeal

Stuns will be made less lethal on an individual level. Doesn't mean that getting stunned isn't bad, but it doesn't stun long enough for someone to kill you afterward.

Stories of how someone outrobusted the HOS is great and all, but it gets a little tiring and rediculous when it's so damn easy. All you need is a battery, wire, rod and wirecutter to stun and cuff which for disabling purposes will kill the HOS. That's stupid. What's also stupid is how you can steal a taser and robust up to 3 people at once.

Legendary stories are great, but if they're anything to do with a stun and a toolbox, it's purely stuns that makes the story.

Last thing I'll say in this thread because this guy is a massive chucklefuck and can't just fuck off, he has to try to enforce his changes on a completely different server, culture, mindset, population and meta just because. You say it works, but it only works on YOUR server with a quarter the pop of Sybil.

Against a sizable cult, rev, gang or greytide you are meant to use FLASHBANGS.

Okay. The cult robusts two officers and takes their HUDs and headset. Suddenly the station is fucked because you have two undefeatable obstacles alongside 2 others. As-is, you CAN use flashbangs, but tasers work OK if there's only 3-, you have amazing aim, and you're arresting 1 and running.

[quote="J_Madison]
You don't like the effectiveness of lasers? Make a thread to buff lasers. Make a pull request to buff lasers. Lethal force as it stands works fine.

Why the fuck would we fuck up the entire balance of the game then try to rebalance it around those changes, when we have good balance right now? That's what you're literally proposing. Changing shit for the sake of it.

God, please lock this topic, this shit is dumb and I don't want anyone to seriously consider such retarded thought.[/quote][/quote]
So they have one set of protection, big whoop, the detective's revolver bypasses that, disablers bypass that, riot shotguns bypass that, lethal force bypasses that.

If you think long stuns are balanced, that's your opinion.

Am I enforcing these changes? These are just suggestions, feedback, opinions. Nobody here is being forced to do anything my way.

Hell with your logic anyone from Basil are unable to make any opinions because they're from a server with lower population.

Give me some proof to dispute my opinions instead of ad homs, insults and accusations.

[PKPenguin321]

alright well i'm gonna just stop replying after and let this thread stagnate and die because it's stupid and you're clearly not really listening, have fun bickering

[J_Madison]

Due to the negativity and hostility met against this suggestion and the recent posts pertaining to the discussion, I'm requesting this thread be locked to contain hostility.

If another member of staff has anything to add to the locked thread, they may feel free to do so but currently, I'm going to request the thread be locked.

[Tornadium]

Due to the negativity and hostility met against this suggestion and the recent posts pertaining to the discussion, I'm requesting this thread be locked to contain hostility.

If another member of staff has anything to add to the locked thread, they may feel free to do so but currently, I'm going to request the thread be locked.

I think the hostility would stop if you didn't keep trying to justify this shit.

I think I just had an epiphany.