Assistant Maint

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:16 pm #58417

Assistant maintenance access was recently stealth re-enabled by the host.

I'm not making a poll since they're stupid. If you feel one way or the other, fucking use your words and express your opinion in a rational way.

I'm personally staying out of it since I don't play assistant nor security as of late due to how shitty both of them are right now, but this needs to be discussed I think.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:22 pm #58420

I think the couple months without maintenance access did a lot of good, honestly. Theres been a rise in assistant players but its not like it was before, and overall people aren't destroying every little thing ever again. Maint is dangerous again, instead of surprisingly safe. Anybody you see in maint isn't automatically suspicious, and it gets some of them out of the main halls.

Whether it goes back to what it was or not, we'll just have to wait and see.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:37 pm #58428

I'd like it if assmaint remained off. If you guys want it I can change it back (But a poll would be the best way to do this paps, whether you like it or not)

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:02 am #58446

Doesn't Basil still have assistant maint?

If so, good. Maintenance has been my main way of obtaining gear without having to be told to fuck off or actually dragged off by Sec, as well as a site for occasional projects.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:13 am #58485

Ikarrus wrote:I'd like it if assmaint remained off. If you guys want it I can change it back (But a poll would be the best way to do this paps, whether you like it or not)

A server poll then, since we know how to do those now

Post by **oranges** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:24 am #58515

Excellent work by SoS to listen to the players.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:25 am #58516

I liked it when assistants didn't have maint. It really seemed to help cut down on the greytiding problem we had, because for a couple months there, it was all but unbearable.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:33 am #58519

No maint for assistants, unless security gets it too.

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:38 am #58520

I appreciate Assistant Maint- it cuts down on the number of Station Engineers who just fuck off into maint. Without it, you get a ton of people playing engineers who don't want to fix anything ever.

Incomptinence · Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:52 am

I like having assistant maint around. The amount of space reserved for the "elite" engineering/cargo few otherwise is gratuitous otherwise. I think it is strange to have it just quietly plopped back in against the wishes of most people though, I argued for ass-maint ferociously and now it is almost stealthily returned? Ridiculous.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:55 am #58528

Fun restored, things are as they should be.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:55 am #58529

It's not a big deal, scaredy did it for christmas, but meh

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:22 am #58536

leibniz wrote:Fun restored, things are as they should be.

Except assistants having maint isn't fun for anyone except for the greyshits themselves. They've been causing a lot more trouble with maint and security not having maint makes it a fucking nightmare to stop them. Doesn't surprise me that lord griffon stealth enabled assistants to have maint. Truly a man of the community.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1568
It even lost the poll, so why the fuck do assistants have maint access?

Atticat · Post by **Atticat** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:59 am #58543

I really like assistant maint because as an antagonist it allows me to get maintenance access really easy by killing one of the numerous assistants flooding the hallways while still keeping maintenance from being everyone-access.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:11 am #58548

just give sec maint access too
they should have it anyway

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:12 am #58550

Violaceus wrote:Yes to maintenace for assistants
Yes to maintenance for security

There we go, presents an actual counter to greytiding assholes while at the same time allowing assistants to have fun.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:18 am #58553

Give everybody maint access.
Remove maintenance.
Maintenance is just space now.
Don't tell anybody.

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:19 am #58554

on efficiency everyone has maint
it works absolutely fine
now removal of maint is a punishment for criminals
it works absolutely fine

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:07 am #58571

miggles wrote:just give sec maint access too
they should have it anyway

I suggested this and would even prefer it instead of taking it away from assistants, but this has been !!VOTED ON!! before AND ADDED until scaredy removed it one day silently saying "SEC ALWAYS POWERGAMES GRRR" as a response

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:33 am #58578

The problem with assistant maint is that it doesn't make a lot of sense for the default, no access day worker to have access to what ICly have become sort of an emergency area all the time. Stealing an assistant's ID should never really upgrade your access, and assistants certainly should not have access to anywhere more trusted jobs like security and medical doesn't.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:59 am #58583

dezzmont wrote:and assistants certainly should not have access to anywhere more trusted jobs like security and medical doesn't.

The joke is every department has access to their area's maintenance tunnels.
Bartender/Botany/Chaplain has the largest local maint, Science the smallest, Security somewhat small, and Medical a decently large one.

That said, security not having full maint access is still kind of silly.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:08 am #58585

The joke is, that on metastation maint access was laid out in a sensible way such that every crew member of a department could not only access the maint around their department, but could also GET OUT of maint, into a main corridor. So they actually had you know, an emergency way out of the department. On box, as far as I have seen, you can get into maint, but can't actually go anywhere/get out, which is uh, pretty pointless and dumb.

Assistants and sec need to both have, or both not have maint access. I prefer them not having it, as it keeps more people out of maint and in the main station (or better yet, encourages people to not be a useless assistant, except high pop where they have no choice), and most HoP's will pretty happily give maint access out anyway, which provides a soft barrier that denies people too lazy to ask for access, access to maint.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:11 am #58587

lumipharon wrote:The joke is, that on metastation maint access was laid out in a sensible way such that every crew member of a department could not only access the maint around their department, but could also GET OUT of maint, into a main corridor. So they actually had you know, an emergency way out of the department. On box, as far as I have seen, you can get into maint, but can't actually go anywhere/get out, which is uh, pretty pointless and dumb.

Assistants and sec need to both have, or both not have maint access. I prefer them not having it, as it keeps more people out of maint and in the main station (or better yet, encourages people to not be a useless assistant, except high pop where they have no choice), and most HoP's will pretty happily give maint access out anyway, which provides a soft barrier that denies people too lazy to ask for access, access to maint.

It would be pretty easy to set up the access so that if you leave your department into maintenance that the nearest exit is also accessible.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:32 am #58594

Violaceus wrote:And it would fuck up access levels on airlocks like on other maps.

I doubt that, I would just give individual doors multiple access codes.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:51 am #58599

Steelpoint wrote:[It would be pretty easy to set up the access so that if you leave your department into maintenance that the nearest exit is also accessible.

This sounds logical and would be awesome.

But to return on the subject, assistants don't have any physical department on the station, thus should have no maint access at all.
And imo security should have maint because they actually could use it to keep the crew safe. But then again security doing its job --> powergaming is a very fine line.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:03 am #58602

I don't want security to be in maint if it's off limits to assistants since it makes it a dangerous place antags can reliably use for hiding or murdering. It's especially good for cult bases if there aren't vigilante greyshirts skulking around ready to yell CULT CHAPEL MAINT at a moment's notice.

However, if assistants get maint, sec should too.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:16 am #58605

Its very dangerous for Officers to explore deep into maintenance, due to it being a good place for the bad guys to attack you. Usually Officers will tend to only patrol the outer parts of maintenance where its more visible and easier to get out of if they do get in trouble.

I think that would balance out sec having maint access.

CocaneStyle · Post by **CocaneStyle** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:21 am #58608

I like assistants not having maintenance because it makes maint a quiet place like it should be, but everytime it gets disabled it gets stealth enabled several months later.

It's a vicious cycle.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:03 am #58617

I hate to say I told you so

But I did

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:18 am #58621

Delicious wrote:-- removing it from assistant is going to cause people who want maintenance but don't want to work to take jobs like engineer and not do them --

Which is dereliction of duty, a dick move, and a bannable offense if done repeatedly.
It's about time those people learn how to give something to the game instead of only taking all the time.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:21 am #58625

It's perfect right now, thanks SoS

Juninho77 · Post by **Juninho77** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:08 am #58636

Saegrimr wrote:Give everybody maint access.
Remove maintenance.
Maintenance is just space now.
Don't tell anybody.

If you don't understand why security needs maintenance whereas, say the, chemist doesn't I suggest you start playing SS13 more often. Or perhaps stop acting like a spastic child, which I know you are not.

Violaceus wrote:And it would fuck up access levels on airlocks like on other maps.

Go get maint access from HoP or ask engineer to change access level on airlock, it is easy.

No. It isn't. It isn't easy to change access level to all maintenance airlocks in all airlocks of the whole map. Every. Single. New. Shift. It is not easy.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:31 am #58642

Juninho77 wrote:If you don't understand why security needs maintenance whereas, say the, chemist doesn't I suggest you start playing SS13 more often. Or perhaps stop acting like a spastic child, which I know you are not.

And here I thought that one was an obvious joke, what with turning maint into space.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:07 pm #58677

Not really, take it logically.

If you leave your department via its maintenance entrance, then the closet maintenance exit would have your access.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:27 pm #58692

I think the idea is that doors could have dual access. So entering the bar maintenance can be done with bar OR maintenance access.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:11 pm #58705

Security maint access would be a huge antag nerf. Pls no

mikecari · Post by **mikecari** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:29 pm #58709

Reimoo wrote:P-pls no I won't be able to murderbone in maint now

Any traitor worth their salt knows how to build a secret room hideout in maint anyway.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:15 pm #58763

kosmos wrote:
Delicious wrote:-- removing it from assistant is going to cause people who want maintenance but don't want to work to take jobs like engineer and not do them --
Which is dereliction of duty, a dick move, and a bannable offense if done repeatedly.
It's about time those people learn how to give something to the game instead of only taking all the time.

It also rarely if ever happened when assitmaint was removed. This in spite of all the "ITS GONNA HAPPEN NO ENGINE NO CARGO EVER" boogey-manning.

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:36 pm #58773

There is this magical thing on airlock electronics, this setting called 'all acess required' or alternatively, 'any access required'.
You click access levels on the interface, say maint and medbay, and set to any access required. Bam. People with maint access OR medbay access can now use that door.

allura · Post by **allura** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:39 pm #58775

if assmaint is ever disabled i could literally change door access on eff 3 or box so that, regardless of the setting, assistants can open them

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:54 pm #58783

Violaceus wrote:
allura wrote:if assmaint is ever disabled i could literally change door access on eff 3 or box so that, regardless of the setting, assistants can open them
So it would be all-access, because assistants have no other access level than maintenance (if they do).

Yep, congrats. You've now created a new hallway system only called it maint for some vague reason. You might as well remove the airlocks entirely at that point.

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:12 am #58833

Violaceus wrote:I know that and my posts were made with that knowledge.

And my opinion is still to not overuse this feature.

In Box it is:
"Hm by giving this person security access I give him security access"

on metastation, as I remember it was:
"Hm by giving this person security access I give him security, 1/4 of maintenance, and maybe even chemistry, who knows".

Security was the same as any other department. If you have access to the brig, you can get in and out of the brig via the main doors, and the most direct path through maint only.
There was for a while (or maybe still is though) a thing where the maint door above medbay/below library, and the back library room maint door (not the other maint door though) had no access requirements at all.

Meta station had logical access, but towards the end a few doors got merged in terms of access (doctors could access chem, robo and R&D could access each other etc), due to often being lowpop.

Snakebutt · Post by **Snakebutt** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:41 am #58859

lumipharon wrote:
Violaceus wrote:I know that and my posts were made with that knowledge.

And my opinion is still to not overuse this feature.

In Box it is:
"Hm by giving this person security access I give him security access"

on metastation, as I remember it was:
"Hm by giving this person security access I give him security, 1/4 of maintenance, and maybe even chemistry, who knows".
Security was the same as any other department. If you have access to the brig, you can get in and out of the brig via the main doors, and the most direct path through maint only.
There was for a while (or maybe still is though) a thing where the maint door above medbay/below library, and the back library room maint door (not the other maint door though) had no access requirements at all.

Meta station had logical access, but towards the end a few doors got merged in terms of access (doctors could access chem, robo and R&D could access each other etc), due to often being lowpop.

Imo doctors should have chem access regardless because of all the retards who use every last drop of power making LSD, spacedrugs and thermite. I need to step in and backhand their burnout asses.