New RCD is brokenly retarded

[lumipharon]

For those that are not aware, the RCD can now hold 160, as opposed to the old 30.
Engineering also starts with 3 FULLY LOADED RCD's in the vendor.

Amongst other various balance breaking shit this causes, I just saw a nuke op round where the guy with the disk ran away from the ops forever, because they just built walls behind them constantly, making it completely impossible for ops to chase him.

You can make a LOT of fucking walls with a fully charged RCD, and unless you also have a fully charged RCD, it's completely rediculous to try tear them all down

I suspect this is also very abusable for gang mode (spam 200 walls around your dominator etc) and other, various situations.


The RCD was changed because construction/deconstruction is shit. It was made shit by added steps and time delays.
But guess what? Everyone without an RCD still has to deal with that crap - what we've got is the wall pooper 5000, and a still terrible construction system.

Also supposedly RCDs can directly eat metal and glass now. Honk.

[Amnestik]

I was wondering when someone would draw attention to this.

Whoever made it had the positive intention of making it easier for engineers to fix breaches, and therefore less likely for a bomb to be an automatic shuttle call.

But yeah, the whole construction/deconstruction thing is unbalanced as shit and I pity the person who takes it upon themselves to try to even it out. I doubt it's going to happen. This'll just get nerfed and we'll go on with having large breaches irreparable in any reasonable amount of time. And when I say repairable, I mean bringing that part of the station back online too, not just filling in the holes and calling it a day while the place is still cold, depressurised, unwalled and missing its departmental equipment and furniture.

[Actionb]

I think the maximum charge needs to be lowered or the usage of the RCD should be more expensive. I have yet to run out of charges during a normal round - and I'm always repairing stuff when there is something to repair.

I'm a bit on the fence whether I like the new RCDs or not.
On the one hand, repairing breaches is a breeze now. Emagged airlocks are swapped out in a few clicks. All in all the RCD made some menial tasks faster to do.
On the other, menial tasks are what engineers are all about. Short of building an autism fort, your normal day will consist of fixing breaches & power lines and rebuilding airlocks. Furthermore the RCD excels in breaking into places. AI's cry sweet silicon tears whenever there is a competent engi with a RCD. Engis have little use for an emag, the RCD is a slower version of it.
That said... I would be lying if I said I hate the new RCDs. I always grab one now. So something must be right about it.

To give a little rundown of how the RCD used to be:
- early days: one RCD spawned in EVA with 0/30 charges and three cartridges. Enough charge to deconstruct two airlocks
- a little later: still only one RCD with 60 max charge and cartridges giving 20 charge
- later: RCD now has 100 max charge and 30 per cartridge
- RCD available in engi vends too, those start with 160 charge, can be cheaply recharged with metal/glass/plasteel sheets and can change airlock settings

In other words: RCDs were never used except to break into the AI core (and back then this was more often than not done by thermiting in from the bridge anyway).
They slowly grew stronger, but still weren't used for its intended purpose: rapid construction. Now we finally have RCDs in use. We just need to find the sweet spot while tweaking the numbers. The sweet spot between "Good luck I'm behind 7000 airlocks!" and "This tool doesn't help me at all".

[TheNightingale]

How about we make high-security airlocks (like the AI core or Vault) unable to be RCD'd down? They can be the equivalent of r-walls, but for airlocks. (Put plasteel in an airlock assembly to change it to high-security - no more painting them!)

On a slightly different note, can we please stop using r*tarded in thread titles? It's overpowered or imbalanced.

[JackHunt]

Why not make walls much more expensive than floors? It seems that would fix both problems of breaches and of walling off being a viable strategy. It also makes intuitive sense.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

The RCDs in the engineering dispensers should either have a much lower maximum capacity than the EVA one, or should start empty.

[Cik]

How about we make high-security airlocks (like the AI core or Vault) unable to be RCD'd down? They can be the equivalent of r-walls, but for airlocks. (Put plasteel in an airlock assembly to change it to high-security - no more painting them!)

On a slightly different note, can we please stop using r*tarded in thread titles? It's overpowered or imbalanced.

i think that's a good idea. it always kind of bothered me that that huge blast door sprite was basically just an airlock; same wires, same resistance to explosives.

differentiating it might be cool

[Oldman Robustin]

Just making RCD usage very resource inefficient is the best solution to this, and make the vending machine RCD's start with 0/160.

[Anonmare]

I'd agree with this, but let the Engineering Cyborg's RCD still able to make High-Security airlocks. Since only Borgs can really be trusted to repair them without supervision

[Akkryls]

I'd agree with this, but let the Engineering Cyborg's RCD still able to make High-Security airlocks. Since only Borgs can really be trusted to repair them without supervision

On the same note, could we get the Cyborg RCD to be able to edit door access? It's kind of irritating having to grab an engineer to replace stolen / emagged doors.

[Anonmare]

it can edit it, you have to right-click the RCD and click on Airlock Access then swipe ID. You don't actually need an ID.

[Actionb]

How about we make high-security airlocks (like the AI core or Vault) unable to be RCD'd down? They can be the equivalent of r-walls, but for airlocks.

I'd agree with this, but let the Engineering Cyborg's RCD still able to make High-Security airlocks. Since only Borgs can really be trusted to repair them without supervision

Oh hell no. RCD is the only way to deconstruct an airlock that has been bolted down and depowered. To deconstruct an airlock without RCD the bolts have to be up - and you cannot raise bolts on depowered airlocks.
Now add a malf cyborg to the equasion and you end up with an AI chamber full of r-wall equivalent airlocks.

As Oldman said, the RCD shouldn't be this material efficient in construction. If you need something fixed quickly, use the RCD - otherwise use the boring stuff.

[CPTANT]

The RCD proliferation has seriously unbalanced some gamemodes.


Blobs have it way harder cause the RCD makes setting up emitters fast sooooo much easier, also it makes accessing the blob or closing breaches way easier.

Malf has it worse, with a single rcd you just walk straight into the core and kill the ai.

[Scones]

"r*tarded"

Bay is that way

Anyways I've only seen this thing used for evil, I will never forget the INCONVENIENCE AND FIRE HAZARD of Oldman's hallway walls

it can edit it, you have to right-click the RCD and click on Airlock Access then swipe ID. You don't actually need an ID.

Holy fuck, really?

[Actionb]

Building a wall uses 3 charges. One metal sheet refills 4+ charges. That's how broken it is.

[Anonmare]

it can edit it, you have to right-click the RCD and click on Airlock Access then swipe ID. You don't actually need an ID.

Holy fuck, really?

I know for a fact that it works with Cyborgs. Haven't used the man-portable version yet but it should be the same. Hell you can even define whether you're making a solid or glass airlock and what paint to make it. As well as define access whether it needs "all the accesses defined" or "at least one of the accesses required".

[Bombadil]

Building a wall uses 3 charges. One metal sheet refills 4+ charges. That's how broken it is.

You need 4 metal sheets to build a fucking wall. RCD is broken beyond belief

[lumipharon]

And this is why it is retarded, not just OP or broken.

[Akkryls]

it can edit it, you have to right-click the RCD and click on Airlock Access then swipe ID. You don't actually need an ID.

I did not actually know this. Well fuck, that's helpful.

[onleavedontatme]

>winning combat by spamming walls

I've missed this so much.

[PKPenguin321]

I say fix it by making construction not tedious again. Make building walls by hand a less shitty experience so you don't need the RCD as much. Make deconstructing walls fast again (remove the extra fucking step with the screwdriver that was added for no reason, god damn), too. The only reason RCDs are the way they are now is because some fuckheads got mad that a traitor built a table in front of them in maint and they couldn't get their valids and nerfed the shit out of construction in every way, and then when they realized it was shitty, instead of reverting it they buffed the RCD to compensate.

[invisty]

This sort of power should be exclusive to the engyborg, and the powercreep on the RCD has made him obsolete. I warned about this when the change was proposed, but some people refuse to hear reason because muh sacred pull request.

[oranges]

engy borg was suppossed to be less efficient than engineers, but that was fucked up quickly anyway.

[TheNightingale]

Why would an engiborg be less efficient than an engineer? Surely their over-speciality (they can only do Engineering - whereas most Engineers can do other things too) means they should be better at what they do?

A janiborg should be objectively better than a janitor at cleaning, but awful at everything else; a mediborg should be better at medicine than an MD, but with no other specialties, et cetera.

[Scones]

Why would an engiborg be less efficient than an engineer? Surely their over-speciality (they can only do Engineering - whereas most Engineers can do other things too) means they should be better at what they do?

A janiborg should be objectively better than a janitor at cleaning, but awful at everything else; a mediborg should be better at medicine than an MD, but with no other specialties, et cetera.

Uh, what?

Silicons should NEVER be better than humans at their jobs. That's how they've been balanced for ages - They have no hands and typically lesser capabilities than a human, in exchange for 200 hp, space/fire immunity and being stunned by a limited range of things. They are specialized for their jobs, but are support units at the end of the day. What you just wrote goes entirely in conflict with the intended design of something that is a potential respawn role full of balance-related tradeoffs.

[Shadowlight213]

it can edit it, you have to right-click the RCD and click on Airlock Access then swipe ID. You don't actually need an ID.

Incorrect. For human RCDs, it checks the ID that you are currently wearing. You still need maint access.

[Incomptinence]

Silicons can be on par but we don't actually need to make them suck more at mundane activities. Oh no that service borg can almost mix drinks like people the horror.

[Cik]

Why would an engiborg be less efficient than an engineer? Surely their over-speciality (they can only do Engineering - whereas most Engineers can do other things too) means they should be better at what they do?

A janiborg should be objectively better than a janitor at cleaning, but awful at everything else; a mediborg should be better at medicine than an MD, but with no other specialties, et cetera.

Uh, what?

Silicons should NEVER be better than humans at their jobs. That's how they've been balanced for ages - They have no hands and typically lesser capabilities than a human, in exchange for 200 hp, space/fire immunity and being stunned by a limited range of things. They are specialized for their jobs, but are support units at the end of the day. What you just wrote goes entirely in conflict with the intended design of something that is a potential respawn role full of balance-related tradeoffs.

was engiborg broke before?

if power is tuned up on a device that another unit has, that unit should be tuned up to unless it was broken to start with

was engiborg's ability to repair the floor broken?

if you answer yes; why do you think so?

[Amnestik]

Just making RCD usage very resource inefficient is the best solution to this, and make the vending machine RCD's start with 0/160.

nope. the change was made to make large hull breaches faster/easier to repair so they aren't an automatic shuttle call because nobody can be bothered to. this would undo that. the cost/value of matter just needs to be rebalanced.

Why would an engiborg be less efficient than an engineer? Surely their over-speciality (they can only do Engineering - whereas most Engineers can do other things too) means they should be better at what they do?

A janiborg should be objectively better than a janitor at cleaning, but awful at everything else; a mediborg should be better at medicine than an MD, but with no other specialties, et cetera.

Uh, what?

Silicons should NEVER be better than humans at their jobs. That's how they've been balanced for ages - They have no hands and typically lesser capabilities than a human, in exchange for 200 hp, space/fire immunity and being stunned by a limited range of things. They are specialized for their jobs, but are support units at the end of the day. What you just wrote goes entirely in conflict with the intended design of something that is a potential respawn role full of balance-related tradeoffs.

You're wrong.

Cyborgs have always been more effective at their jobs than humans. They specialise in their fields and don't have the hands or modules necessary to do anything else or interact with anything that isn't electrical. They aren't fire immune either.

e.g.
janiborg cleans just by passing over tiles
cyborg rcd holds more matter (or at least used to) and can deconstruct r-walls
security borg's taser recharges by itself
etc.

[Incomptinence]

Janitor can catch up by upgrading his cart then in some ways he can so it better due to switching between equipment faster.
Security borg is disabler bound now.
I am extremely opposed to the "MUST BE INFERIOR AT WHAT IS SPECIALIZES AT!" because as we can see with current service borg and some iterations of mediborg/minerborg almost no one chooses them because if they don't do their job what's the point?
Standard probably isn't adaptable enough nor should it be really I would love it being replaced by a botany module.

[firecage]

This all started by someone making building and repairing things retardedly slow and retardedly annoying.

[MisterPerson]

Can we get back on track instead of veering off into a side discussion about cyborgs? Take that to another thread if you want to keep talking about it.

[PKPenguin321]

This all started by someone making building and repairing things retardedly slow and retardedly annoying.

this is exactly what i've been saying

[oranges]

building and repairing has always been slow.

The issue only showed up when people added RCD's because it was easier to use them.

As for borgs, classic case of power creep.

[lumipharon]

But that's not true oranges.

We'd have delays added to steps in both construction and deconstruction, as well as entirely new steps added for zero reason.

[Saegrimr]

But that's not true oranges.

We'd have delays added to steps in both construction and deconstruction, as well as entirely new steps added for zero reason.

This.
Its nearly impossible to set a window back in place because you used to be able to tap that bitch with a screwdriver before space wind set it free. Now theres like a 3 second "screwing it into place!" timer that ~someone~ added in for reasons.

[PKPenguin321]

my personal favorite example of a shitty extra step is having to wrench AND THEN SCREWDRIVER a girder to deconstruct it which is horrifically shitty as i said in the original PR (which proceeded to get merged anyways because lolcoderbus)