Lavaland syndie base

[FantasticFwoosh]

Pretty much the analysis here https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -261751885

Needs more polishing of the content it has, and revision of what the eventual goals of these stranded syndies even should be.

[Cobby]

There are some issues [that heavily affect the usage of the base] below:

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/21648

[D&B]

Finally somewhere else to drag megafauna to

[Incomptinence]

Needs virus food dispenser or a cow for virology research. Could use some sheets of silver or gold.
Monkey enclosure needs to require some form of access maint should be on their ID's the monkeys spill out and are a pain to contain.

Some way to send grenades (and make better casings) or infected monkeys to the station would be rad if it only happened infrequently like every 10 minutes after half an hour.
A syringe gun for chemist and viro to make miners actually afraid of the products from the base would be fun.

I mean as a bioweapons facility making viruses is sort of important.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Good point, why do none of the doors have access?

[Alipheese]

or a cow for virology research.

Wat. Why

[FantasticFwoosh]

or a cow for virology research.

Wat. Why

Milk for viruses.

[Anonmare]

Good point, why do none of the doors have access?

I'd have thought they'd be given Syndicate access like the OPs base.

[Alipheese]

or a cow for virology research.

Wat. Why

Milk for viruses.

was there a sudden update today thst I missed. Otherwise it's never needed for virology.

[Okand37]

Its since been in the process of remapping. I made a new rendition of it for korphaeron and he's just finishing it up, if I am unmistaken. All doors should be set to regular syndicate access (150) in the new version unless he changed it.

It'll look something more like this

[D&B]

>Invincible walls

Why tho

[Okand37]

>Invincible walls

Why tho

Plastitanium is a mineral wall, just like shuttles titanium walls. You can add plastitanium to a wall girder to make said walls.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Sniper bullets & monsters kept breaking them.

Not to mention the ghost roles are still going to be a teeny bit less bored but still quite bored with the actual flaw of the limited playability of the activities, now it IS animal hospital/hotel but just on lavaland.

The comms room is still a comms room for making funny voices, not a lot of valuable data would really be needed (to be put in the filing cabinets AGAIN without context of looking through cams to tactically troll people), ontop of running out of materials for the bomb range (which is literally toxins/test room with no target, and we all know how that turns out)

[Armhulen]

atleast the animal hospital could leave

[Reece]

If we're gonna do this can we re add away missions?

[PKPenguin321]

If we're gonna do this can we re add away missions?

Away missions have their own separate set of problems, things like this aren't really valid to compare

[Wyzack]

I don't understand why fwoosh is complaining about a lack of exciting new shit/long term antag goals when Kor literally said this only exists to let players experiment and learn chem and stuff

[FantasticFwoosh]

I don't understand why fwoosh is complaining about a lack of exciting new shit/long term antag goals when Kor literally said this only exists to let players experiment and learn chem and stuff

On the contrary, he handpicked the shortest jobs with no reasonable objective (test lab/babby toxins - virology - and making funny contextless noises over comms meant to teach something i guess). I argue that if you want to actually learn virology/chemistry, roll a station job where you will actually be able to apply those skills practically rather than sit around a base going (look at me, i have all these tools im just going to play in my sandbox and ghost out when im done) because when you're forced into a ckey irreversibly its not how you might ideally want to spend a 1+hour round of enforced isolation.

Golems dig and mine & do R&D they are free to do as they wish, ashwalkers learn to survive nitty gritty combat and podpeople tend to plants, all tutorials in themselves that arent forced as by being attached to detailed progression activities. Virology and chemistry is a difficult & short field. Syndies sort of mill around a bunker playing a bit with poisons and bombs they are going to use on themselves because they are literally so bored and try to find the most imaginative way of offing themselves before priming the base self destruct, just to spite miners trying to get this sweet loot grab.

> Animal Hospital is literally a joke about a 1 hit wonder meme of "cancer rat" it has no reason to exist other than to purport this forgotten joke, and all the doctors immediately gear up with the stuff remie left behind for them on purpose to survive outside and leave the ruin to go to the station.

> Hotel people can't leave and if there isn't any guests or likelihood of getting guests, they don't spawn at all and lie redundant, prone to ghosting.

> Beach bums & castaway are barely sustainable survival simulators that are okayish but still slightly flawed.

> Prison ship was literally dash as fast to the station as humanely possible when it was still in.

Spoiler:

I dont mean to honk my own but i think i made a better point out of having a abductor themed ruin basing more on medical experiments and working within the established systems of ayy scanning to incubate copies of people to do experiments on. Given a wide variety of organs/point objectives for more you mutilate and botch up your subjects, and when you're done you have enough points to dress up like ayy warriors & live on the outside or wherever (also sanctifies not being able to communicate with other races).

X-COM style - Alien agenda to learn and assimilate then eventually subvert and enter human society by bodysnatching genetically superior bodies whilst blending in.

[D&B]

I'm wondering, would the Comms relay in that base affect the normal comms between z levels?

I mean, there's an easy way to cut comms between lavaland and the station if you get rid of the machine in the mining station. Would the machine in the syndie base affect that?

[Okand37]

I'm wondering, would the Comms relay in that base affect the normal comms between z levels?

I mean, there's an easy way to cut comms between lavaland and the station if you get rid of the machine in the mining station. Would the machine in the syndie base affect that?

The machine is just the same one on the syndishuttle.

[Incomptinence]

was there a sudden update today thst I missed. Otherwise it's never needed for virology.

There was an update to virus mutations while virus food made from milk and water is mostly garbage tier it is also used to make the reagents that catalyse some of the higher tier symptoms. I was just listing an alternate way to get virus food, milk a cow.

[Alipheese]

was there a sudden update today thst I missed. Otherwise it's never needed for virology.

There was an update to virus mutations while virus food made from milk and water is mostly garbage tier it is also used to make the reagents that catalyse some of the higher tier symptoms. I was just listing an alternate way to get virus food, milk a cow.

WHEN ARE YOU EVER GOING TO USE OVER 1000 UNITS OF VIRUS FOOD FROM THE DISPENSER?!?

[Reece]

If we're gonna do this can we re add away missions?

Away missions have their own separate set of problems, things like this aren't really valid to compare

Don't get your facts get in my narrative boyo .

[Incomptinence]

was there a sudden update today thst I missed. Otherwise it's never needed for virology.

There was an update to virus mutations while virus food made from milk and water is mostly garbage tier it is also used to make the reagents that catalyse some of the higher tier symptoms. I was just listing an alternate way to get virus food, milk a cow.

WHEN ARE YOU EVER GOING TO USE OVER 1000 UNITS OF VIRUS FOOD FROM THE DISPENSER?!?

Syndie base lacks a dispenser. Kor can't viro.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Fwoosh always complains, it's his primary malfunction

Because i (sometimes-over) analyse what i see, i see a slightly unfinished base and get triggered understandably. I've been right in my criticisms before.

Spoiler:

Remember when i helped explain to joan the blobbernaught meta? Blob is still pretty cancerous to fight but before blobs used to tank using the blob regen and never leave as a extra layer of flailing defence and tile blockers.

[Wyzack]

Got a chance to play as this last night on Sybil

I got comms officer, spawned in and looked around the whole outpost. Started fiddling with the comunications stuff. Decided to run a free lavaland broadcast gimmick and plaster it over the common radio. Gave fake news updates based on information i spied off of communications. Other dudes spawned in the base to do research, we chatted a bit between my broadcasts. Did a couple fake commercials, one for the CR-20 SMG and one for Syndiecakes. Whole broadcast had not-so-subtle syndicate propaganda in it. It was really fun.

Then i guess one of the scientists was fucking with a fire grenade of some kind, and apparently this triggered the self destruct which blew up the whole fucking outpost. It kinda sucked to abruptly lose my gimmick but all things considered it was a fucking hysterically funny way for it to end.

Could use a couple rule clarifications regarding what is and is not okay. Do we as syndicate have carte blanche to do what we want with information we get from our omnipotent comms? Like if i hear about potential traitorous or anti-traitor activity on departmental channels am i allowed to just tell whomever about it? Likewise i can possibly see it being abused if the outpost people hear chatter on the syndicate radio channel. The people at the base can carefully monitor comms for them, or even just out them to the station to be dicks.

All things considered though it is a really fun little thing especially for players trying to learn viro and chem. Not sure if being able to trigger the self destruct is intentional though

[onleavedontatme]

or even just out them to the station to be dicks.

If people read the spawn text with phrases such as "keep a low profile," "hated enemy nanotrasen" and "Use the communication equipment to provide support to any field agents, and sow disinformation to throw Nanotrasen off your trail" and then decide that means "lol out the traitors to security" I will glady come online and permaban them ghost roles.

[Wyzack]

I must have missed that spawn text to be totally honest. I mean really it should be common sense to not do something so senselessly shitty but we all know how far that goes in this community.

I feel like it would be really fun to run intelligence and misinformation for operatives or traitors on the station, maybe the chance at having some extra support will convince more people to buy the syndiekey

[Cobby]

or even just out them to the station to be dicks.

If people read the spawn text with phrases such as "keep a low profile," "hated enemy nanotrasen" and "Use the communication equipment to provide support to any field agents, and sow disinformation to throw Nanotrasen off your trail" and then decide that means "lol out the traitors to security" I will glady come online and permaban them ghost roles.

I already had to nail someone who joined the syndibase just to activate the bombs of the syndibase.

Good times.

[Wyzack]

Is it intentional design that inept or malicious grenade makers can blow up the entire base? Personally i think it is hilarious good fun but i feel like people might start doing it just to spite the others at the base

[Cobby]

Is it intentional design that inept or malicious grenade makers can blow up the entire base? Personally i think it is hilarious good fun but i feel like people might start doing it just to spite the others at the base

That probably stems from an issue of having multiple bombs surrounding the area rather than a single central bomb since between chemistry and the testing area there's a syndicate bomb [meaning you have to be careful your hellfire smoke of death doesn't hop into the corridor].

[John_Oxford]

Does the new base not have normal syndicate weapons anymore?

Ideally, making the base able to be infiltrated by miners (making it much larger, with much more less obvious entry points) and filling it with loads of syndicate gear, mechs, and special items.
Having a miner go full splinter cell in a explorer suit and sneak under a lava vent into a maintence access, where he can sneak into the power room and cut the power, then weld his way into the sub armory and steal some night vision goggles to tactically disarm the bombs on the base, and eliminate all the on base personnel. They'd reap loads of syndicate gear, but go against incredible odds if the base is staffed.

A unstaffed syndicate base should more or less be invisible. Lore wise it would be a cloaking field to prevent equipment damage from megafauna, and then when staff were on site, the cloaking field comes down to allow them to begin research.

Having it as a full scale research base with a wall guarded by ghost roles with several infiltration points for miners to attempt to break in would be neat.

Maybe literally make it a mini-syndicate-research-station. Crew can attack it but runs the risk of dying from them, much less dying from the very hostile enviorment. However doing so would reap loads of syndicate gear.

[Cobby]

Does the new base not have normal syndicate weapons anymore?

Ideally, making the base able to be infiltrated by miners (making it much larger, with much more less obvious entry points) and filling it with loads of syndicate gear, mechs, and special items.
Having a miner go full splinter cell in a explorer suit and sneak under a lava vent into a maintence access, where he can sneak into the power room and cut the power, then weld his way into the sub armory and steal some night vision goggles to tactically disarm the bombs on the base, and eliminate all the on base personnel. They'd reap loads of syndicate gear, but go against incredible odds if the base is staffed.

A unstaffed syndicate base should more or less be invisible. Lore wise it would be a cloaking field to prevent equipment damage from megafauna, and then when staff were on site, the cloaking field comes down to allow them to begin research.

Having it as a full scale research base with a wall guarded by ghost roles with several infiltration points for miners to attempt to break in would be neat.

Maybe literally make it a mini-syndicate-research-station. Crew can attack it but runs the risk of dying from them, much less dying from the very hostile enviorment. However doing so would reap loads of syndicate gear.

Gateway, is that you?

[letshavecake]

Ideally, making the base able to be infiltrated by miners (making it much larger, with much more less obvious entry points) and filling it with loads of syndicate gear, mechs, and special items.
Having a miner go full splinter cell in a explorer suit and sneak under a lava vent into a maintence access, where he can sneak into the power room and cut the power, then weld his way into the sub armory and steal some night vision goggles to tactically disarm the bombs on the base, and eliminate all the on base personnel. They'd reap loads of syndicate gear, but go against incredible odds if the base is staffed.

I am both highly aroused and mad that this isn't already a thing

[Incomptinence]

Give me that funky milk.

[onleavedontatme]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/21680

[Incomptinence]

Praise the lord

[Armhulen]

kor's literally the best

[Wyzack]

I actually had an idea. What if they got a limited syndie communications console that works like an emagged comms console in that it lets you contact syndicate command (IE badmins) to request additional supplies or relay intel or whatever. Might be a harmless roleplay touch that could be used for shennanigans

[Grazyn]

I don't understand why fwoosh is complaining about a lack of exciting new shit/long term antag goals when Kor literally said this only exists to let players experiment and learn chem and stuff

On the contrary, he handpicked the shortest jobs with no reasonable objective (test lab/babby toxins - virology - and making funny contextless noises over comms meant to teach something i guess). I argue that if you want to actually learn virology/chemistry, roll a station job where you will actually be able to apply those skills practically rather than sit around a base going (look at me, i have all these tools im just going to play in my sandbox and ghost out when im done) because when you're forced into a ckey irreversibly its not how you might ideally want to spend a 1+hour round of enforced isolation.

Golems dig and mine & do R&D they are free to do as they wish, ashwalkers learn to survive nitty gritty combat and podpeople tend to plants, all tutorials in themselves that arent forced as by being attached to detailed progression activities. Virology and chemistry is a difficult & short field. Syndies sort of mill around a bunker playing a bit with poisons and bombs they are going to use on themselves because they are literally so bored and try to find the most imaginative way of offing themselves before priming the base self destruct, just to spite miners trying to get this sweet loot grab.

> Animal Hospital is literally a joke about a 1 hit wonder meme of "cancer rat" it has no reason to exist other than to purport this forgotten joke, and all the doctors immediately gear up with the stuff remie left behind for them on purpose to survive outside and leave the ruin to go to the station.

> Hotel people can't leave and if there isn't any guests or likelihood of getting guests, they don't spawn at all and lie redundant, prone to ghosting.

> Beach bums & castaway are barely sustainable survival simulators that are okayish but still slightly flawed.

> Prison ship was literally dash as fast to the station as humanely possible when it was still in.

Spoiler:

I dont mean to honk my own but i think i made a better point out of having a abductor themed ruin basing more on medical experiments and working within the established systems of ayy scanning to incubate copies of people to do experiments on. Given a wide variety of organs/point objectives for more you mutilate and botch up your subjects, and when you're done you have enough points to dress up like ayy warriors & live on the outside or wherever (also sanctifies not being able to communicate with other races).

X-COM style - Alien agenda to learn and assimilate then eventually subvert and enter human society by bodysnatching genetically superior bodies whilst blending in.

It's better to learn chem in a controlled environment like the syndie base than on the station. When a newbie creates a fireball of death in chemistry right after round start because he didn't use stabilizer for phlogiston or accidentally created lethal smoke, it's not fun for anyone. Not to mention that chemistry are only 2 slots, viro is 1, you may not roll it for a while if you play on highpop, and when you finally roll them you immediately get shouted at by everyone, then people start to break in because you're too slow and you never learn anything

[FantasticFwoosh]

I actually had an idea. What if they got a limited syndie communications console that works like an emagged comms console in that it lets you contact syndicate command (IE badmins) to request additional supplies or relay intel or whatever. Might be a harmless roleplay touch that could be used for shennanigans

I've already thrown that idea in atleast once before, but it got ignored.

That ontop of a camera station so they can watch places and people of interest rather than make funny noises contextlessly, every-time someone walks past a door call a law 2 to the AI to bolt that door behind them or other silly things.

I don't understand why fwoosh is complaining about a lack of exciting new shit/long term antag goals when Kor literally said this only exists to let players experiment and learn chem and stuff

- Snip-[/spoiler]

It's better to learn chem in a controlled environment like the syndie base than on the station. When a newbie creates a fireball of death in chemistry right after round start because he didn't use stabilizer for phlogiston or accidentally created lethal smoke, it's not fun for anyone. Not to mention that chemistry are only 2 slots, viro is 1, you may not roll it for a while if you play on highpop, and when you finally roll them you immediately get shouted at by everyone, then people start to break in because you're too slow and you never learn anything

You're responsible for what chems you make and preparing them (dont prepare death smoke non antag/without cryobeakers or stabilizing agent) when you're on the station, what i was trying to say with my example is that you'd actually get to use them, and if you make chems on lavaland you barely have the facilities to test it out on yourself/the monkeys and both results are detrimental to the base without a infinite supply of monkeys and proper ventilation etc..

A traitor chemist/scientist/with access to chems has definite reason to be creating that stuff, wheras good chemistry practice comes from knowing your recopies and applying them in a suitable manner to keep the vendor stocked and people alive with self medication. In the end everyone who uses the lavaland syndi labs (virology/chemistry) probably uses the wiki at some point so without the wiki-link books its pointless to teach and they could just do it in a test client in dream daemon.

In light of this, the PR to amend some of these issues is up.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/21680

[Grazyn]

Yeah but not everyone wants to get through the chore of setting up a test client, so a biolab for ghosts to practice is useful. It's not like you're gonna get banned or bwoinked for accidentally setting the syndie chemlab on fire

[FantasticFwoosh]

Yeah but not everyone wants to get through the chore of setting up a test client, so a biolab for ghosts to practice is useful. It's not like you're gonna get banned or bwoinked for accidentally setting the syndie chemlab on fire

Yes you will if you manage to set off the self destruct too.

[Wyzack]

What? No admin is going to bwoink you for setting the syndiebase on fire by mistake. I have said this a billion times, but as a ghost role you have literally no rights.

[Saegrimr]

What? No admin is going to bwoink you for setting the syndiebase on fire by mistake. I have said this a billion times, but as a ghost role you have literally no rights.

To be fair i've ghost role banned idiots who spawn in as an ashwalker just to start stabbing other ashwalkers. There's a pretty clear line between shit just happening, stupid accidents, and people intentionally being assholes.

[Grazyn]

Put the telecomm relay in another room, otherwise when you're trying to make funny voices over the intercom and it randomly says "Incoming transmission: "Base Expansion budget approved, Standby. Thank you for maintaing secrecy" over sec channel you feel like a fucking idiot

[Incomptinence]

Give em a blue space mortar to launch items at the station.

[onleavedontatme]

I think the fairest way to let them send items to the station would be to have special smartfridge or telepad that people could spend uplink points to pull from.

[FantasticFwoosh]

I think the fairest way to let them send items to the station would be to have special smartfridge or telepad that people could spend uplink points to pull from.

But what if the scientists send themselves in a box? Also is this literally a syndicate teleporter pad or just a pre-packaged teleporter kit with syndie co-ordinates between both parties?

[D&B]

Needs a nerf.

Carpet grenades can clear the lava and they can just snipe miners if they're far enough with a good FOV.