Roleplay Levels Discussion

[Bawhoppennn]

EDIT (moved up from Wyzecks post further down, due to topic merge):

There was a massive offtopic pile of shit in the King of Basil thread and i thought it was kind of interesting so i am hoping the discussion can be moved here (mods pls)

Namely there seems to be some contention over what constitutes high rp and what level of RP bay is

I would like to put forward a real life example for making metrics. When we decided we wanted to measure temperature we had to make our own scale. Obviously at the time we couldnt measure absolute minimum temperature so we picked two points. Boiling point of water and freezing point of water. (freedomburgers need not apply). We then divided the space between them into 100 units and called it a degree.

I think this is relevant because the same can be applied here. NoRP would be something griefy like nox where there are literally no rules. I think that bay is more or less the epitome of high rp as i cannot think of a SS13 server with higher RP standards or enforcement.

--------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL POST BY BAW:

Uh no, basil is not medRP, bay is medRP, basil is moreso its own class of casual-mid-light-low-alt-RP

[DemonFiren]

Bay is pretty fucking highRP.

[peoplearestrange]

Uh no, basil is not medRP, bay is medRP, basil is moreso its own class of casual-mid-light-low-alt-RP

Bay is HighRP, like seriously, name a server with higher RP standards?
I'd call Basil lite-medRP. But at this point we're just making personal definitions.
What matters is how people respond and whats expected and to what standards admins will hold players to. Or rather to what direction will admins steer players with warnings, notes and tips/advise in order to keep RP to a certain level.

[Jazaen]

To be honest, basil is hard to classify. From the rule standpoint, it is lowRP, with most players oscillating somewhere between lowRP and midRP, with occasional mid-highRP spikes, depending on things like round length, round type, violence of antags, occurrence actions that could be interpreted as crimes against humanity, etc.
Since about hub was introduced, until quite recently, it was edging more towards the lowRP side, but it is getting more midRP-ish now.

[Bawhoppennn]

Well before the hub it was a different unique class, more like communeRP cause only the regs played and they just did everything casually together there was no like antag violence etc

And yes, bay is mediumRP, everything is still too wacky and spessmenny to really call it highRP, we act like they have super high standards of RP but they really do not

[peoplearestrange]

How is "BWOINK: How does your character know how to fire that gun?" medRP?

[Jazaen]

It kind of depends what you base your scale on. By SS13 standards, bay is highRP, but by general RP game standards bay is mid RP (then again, most Ultra-hi-RP-wow games, especially GMod ones, are so edgy you could cut slabs of solid steel with them).

[Bawhoppennn]

High/Heavy RP would be where you're like super in character and everything is like more rational and you have to play like an actual person would act, MediumRP (like bay) is where you are into the game playing as the character acting like a person kind of but stuff is still kind of wacky and fun (as the nature of ss13), LightRP is us where we disallow blatantly breaking character but we don't care if you stay super in character, NoRP is goon

[DemonFiren]

High/Heavy RP would be where you're like super in character and everything is like more rational and you have to play like an actual person would act, MediumRP (like bay) is where you are into the game playing as the character acting like a person kind of but stuff is still kind of wacky and fun (as the nature of ss13), LightRP is us where we disallow blatantly breaking character but we don't care if you stay super in character, NoRP is goon

>bay
>wacky and fun
Bay is a place where you don't know the Syndicate exists (it was eventually removed and replaced by "AntagCorp" for uplink purposes, traitors are always solitary now), where they removed all traces of clowns and were refluffing wizards into insane psychics with implants because it was breaking emulsions.
It's a place where in rev, flashes don't brainwash, instead you have to convince people to join you - and usually, they don't murder heads of staff even after their pay is halved.

[Bawhoppennn]

Yes, its less wacky and fun than us, but it is still wacky as ss13 is, go and observe there some time.

[Bawhoppennn]

If it was heavy RP there wouldn't be a fucking dog on a high-tech research station

you want to use a retarded argument I will return right back with one

[DemonFiren]

Take it from me, Bay is high-RP, Basil is medium, Sybil is so light it's barely a touch.

Now can we please talk about longbowmemes?

[Bawhoppennn]

You are literally wrong

[peoplearestrange]

I'm not sure an arbitrary scale of personal opinion can be "Literately wrong".

But wow did we get off topic...

[Aloraydrel]

You are literally wrong

Literally

[DemonFiren]

I'm not sure an arbitrary scale of personal opinion can be "Literately wrong".

But wow did we get off topic...

With Baw it's more like illiterately wrong.

[Bawhoppennn]

You have literally not given me any reason to imagine that bay is high-RP relative to us

[DemonFiren]

Here's one: Play on Bay.

[Bawhoppennn]

I have been on bay, however I doubt you have.

[Wyzack]

There was a massive offtopic pile of shit in the King of Basil thread and i thought it was kind of interesting so i am hoping the discussion can be moved here (mods pls)

Namely there seems to be some contention over what constitutes high rp and what level of RP bay is

I would like to put forward a real life example for making metrics. When we decided we wanted to measure temperature we had to make our own scale. Obviously at the time we couldnt measure absolute minimum temperature so we picked two points. Boiling point of water and freezing point of water. (freedomburgers need not apply). We then divided the space between them into 100 units and called it a degree.

I think this is relevant because the same can be applied here. NoRP would be something griefy like nox where there are literally no rules. I think that bay is more or less the epitome of high rp as i cannot think of a SS13 server with higher RP standards or enforcement.

[imblyings]

RP is playing a role in a manner which fits a given context.

There is absolutely no consistent or official context on /tg/.

CM does. You're a marine, you have more or less vague 21st century stereotypical attitudes towards life and death, and lots of little hints and tips on how to act from tropes accumulated across years of movies. That's a context and they play their roles according to it.

Other servers might make up their own context, making up their own background fluff, and agree to play their characters in varying similarity to 21st mainstream western social values and official headcanon about the universe that they live in. Bay for example, dictated that in their headcanon, spessmen were good at their job only at most, feared pain, and were chosen from the stock of humanity who liked to cower in fear and piss their pants, /tg/ having taken all the psychopathic all-knowing spessmen with hero delusions from the rest of the population. The dumb majority out there then thought bay was high """rp""" because bay enforced a context that people thought was very realistic.

If people want Basil to be more """""""""""rp"""""""""""" they first need to accept that 99% percent of those people are unqualified to dictate policy on it and then they can have fun coming up with a context and a universe in which they can play their role in. Hammering out the details of what spessmen are expected to act like, what their usual responses to things might be, what game mechanics might need an exception in rp for to maintain a smooth round experience, etc. If they want rp they need to get together some time and bash out some official headcanon.

[ColonicAcid]

I've never thought of Roleplay as a sliding system.

I personally do not think there is a spectrum on between "light", "medium" or "heavy" rp. If you are playing a character that isn't you, you're roleplaying. Whether it's good roleplay or not is a different matter. It's binary, simple as that. The whole arguing about what bay or what sybil or what basil is stupid. One is significantly better at roleplay than both the other two combined, that's just how it is, bay actively seeks roleplayers, we actively hamper them. Do the maths genius.

I played two rounds this week and one of the first rounds I had nothing really happened, there was no roleplay to speak off, everyone was doing their own thing whether that be hunting antags or whatever, I could hardly even stop anyone to talk to them because they just didn't care. I dunno maybe I'm still too used to the old #2 culture where most of the time you could stop someone to have a conversation and they wouldn't totally ignore you, things change, I appreciate that fact, doesn't mean I have to accept it as a better change though. Another thing that I picked up (and called out) was the amount of meme speak that went on. One of the rounds the Captain kept saying "Cuck that blob!" or "X is a cuck.". By all means shout cuck and shit in OOC, I don't care, but fucking keep that shit out of the game, it's like spouting ayy lmao or whatever, it's dumb, and if you do it in real life you're retarded.

Honestly I think I'm just rambling right now because I think the niche roleplaying game that SS13 was a couple of years ago has devolved into more of an action game with more emphasis on antags and their shenanigans than actual crew interaction. This is pretty evident to me due to team antags being more weighted than they used to be. Before cult & rev used to be the exception, but now it's the norm.

All of these things, along with some of the admins being anti-roleplay to begin with was the needed catalyst to mean that good roleplay is a dying art, and I think now it's far too late for us to change it. The playerbase don't want it and who am I to force changes that the minority want. I'm pretty passionate about this topic so excuse me if my sentence is absolutely fucked, I really want to get something out about this, but I just don't know how to structure it. Let me try and articulate it better:

Roleplayers from about >2012 onwards were a dying breed, whilst roleplay has never been the main focus of #1 I still could feel as if there was some sort of player interaction going on, nowadays its dead, it's like we're a bunch of Nordic people, don't talk to someone unless you have a really important reason to do so. Roleplayers nowadays are treated as sodomites, I mean just look at nightingale, for all the effort they put into acting a character they get ridicule. I don't really know the reason, maybe the new people/new generation that didn't grow up with boardgames and came from the recent exposure just don't get it. Maybe it was due to the fact that as people from actual /tg/ left/stopped playing it became more apparent that I'm the minority. On the other hand I can definitely attribute the death of #2 due to Sigurd. It never really recovered from that I don't think. I can honestly put a line between the server pop that goes Pre-Sigurd and Post-Sigurd, that's how bad it was. It went from 30 players on non peak hours and 60 on peak hours to like 20 on peak hours and on the weekends on a good day it got to 30/40. Add in the stupid bandaid fixes to the problems that the admin team/host love to implement and you have a large diaspora of #2's population to baystation. That's logical, I too tried to go to baystation, why should I stay in a place that not only does not accommodate for me with admins (and headmins) that not only do nothing to attempt to encourage roleplay but actively seek to damper it. I could never get into Baystation because there was that whole "barrier of entry" that I had to pass that I could never be bothered to play enough to do so. That's generally a normality in roleplaying communities, it's like your friendship group. If you had to sit with two groups of people, one were your friends whilst the others were completely strangers, you're going to sit with your friends.

I could be speaking just for myself but I feel as if that was the biggest reason as to why people left. I think that was one of the biggest reasons that Sigurd was made. We wanted representation on our own server, we didn't want policies made by admins that only play on #1 and don't understand anything that we wanted. As the admins that only played on #2 went down, more of us became increasingly aware of this problem. In the end, any attempts to keep us on board, such as /nt/station were far too late and far too little, after sigurd the server was effectively a dead man walking.

As the french say, c'est la vie.

[Xhagi]

This thread probably belongs in the Roleplaying section. Just saying.

While I think a proper set universe that is used as the base for characters is something sorely needed, the universe should not define the character. Not all spessmen should be cowards, nor should all be psychos. There's room for both. I also don't think we should limit knowledge, as little sense as it makes it wouldn't go over well with our playerbase. Let others decide if they should know or not what they do know.

I really am hoping we can turn Basil into some sort of RP centered server, which you can have various 'levels' of but ultimately it comes down to whether RP is the focus or not, it's one of the reasons I decided to stop going on Sybil and start adminning there. But be aware trying to set conduct standards may not go over well with some people.

[peoplearestrange]

...freezing point of water...

Hate to be that person, but 0 is actually the melting point of normal ice. The freezing point of water can be well into the minus's due to lots of factors.


ANYWAYS...

I believe this to be a good argument. We take what is high and what is low on Space Station 13. We can't use outside sources of RP standards as a metric for measuring ss13 RP.

I would call Bay the high point and something like er... Goon? But goon is its own kettle of fish... Maybe something like what N0X was?

I'd class Hippie as lite (similar to sybil on its memeist days)
Basil/Yog/Paradise as Medium (though Ive never really played yog all that much, so correct me if im wrong).
Salco(Alien station)/Apollo as Med/High
Bay as High.

There is a little bit of a server list here:
https://www.digg.com/r/SS13/wiki/server_list
But its kinda outdated.

EDIT:

This thread probably belongs in the Roleplaying section. Just saying.

I moved it to General from Off Topic, it's relevant to our servers and also SS13. Roleplay forum was MEANT to be IC type stuff, so discussions and such shouldn't be there, but its become a bit of a shit heap of late.

[Xhagi]

Fair enough, PAS. Still, I think the discussion should less be on the 'level' of RP as much as if it's the focus of the server.

I see it similar to Free Companies in Final Fantasy XIV. My FC that I belong to is Heavy RP focused, meaning a majority of the time that is what we do. We have a setting, goals, etc. That's different from an FC that is focused on end game raiding. They might have some people who do RP, but it's not their focus and it lacks a set setting and standards and all that. The best way I can think to say it is that it's not standardized.

So I believe the first decision that needs to be made is 'is the server RP focused or not?' Obviously Sybil is not, but Basil might have an easier time being as such as there's a good deal of character interaction that takes place. Once that's decided then you can set the rules, conducts, and universe that would define it's 'level.' Although I keep putting that in quotes because in all honesty it's an arbitrary value that doesn't hold a lot of meaning and is something each individual will look at and decide for themselves.

[Archie700]

The problem with classifying Bagil in terms of levels is that its rounds tend to be varying.

Sometimes it's a relaxing round of rp. Sometimes you get killed early by stupid shit. Sometimes the station is empty and people start griffing. Sometimes rp gets interrupted by things like gangs or rev that can pretty much divide people.

And then there's rounds where some murderboner murders everyone and recalls the shuttle.

[ColonicAcid]

Just stop trying to classify what is and what isn't.

Focus on /tg/station, you don't need to care or worry or do anything about the other servers.

Is there a problem due to RP or lack of thereof?
In my opinion, yes.
Should the admins fix this? How will they fix this? Can they fix this? I don't know the answer to these questions.

[Wyzack]

I mean i really wanted to get on board with making basil have a higher standard of RP but at most i get 1-2 late night rounds a day anymore, not really enough to effect change. Also any time pop is above 50 i kinda dont bother

[Anonmare]

Adminning players is an awful lot like herding cats. They don't respect or listen to you, meow incessantly at you for thigns they want and fight with each other over the littlest things.

[DemonFiren]

I have been on bay, however I doubt you have.

>fucking implying
I started on Bay.
I took to shitposting about Bay when it got too autismal for my tastes.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I thought you got banned.

But not digressing, Basil exists in a weird place due to its dual role as a hubbie server and a server where Rp is encouraged, but I like that weird seesaw state. It lets us do complete bullshit () rounds, but also do serious ones and expect people to actually play along.

[Skorvold]

I find the biggest "problem" with our level of roleplay is that it varies wildly depending on who is playing or the game mode. The shift can easily shift from HighRP to LowRP because the wizard showed up, then to noRP when magic is spawned or it's rev/ragin' mages. This is actually pretty good, in that you can exchange in character development one moment and bash in a head the next, as it usually keeps people from getting bored of high or lowrp. I've recently thought about tossing up a server with incredibly minimal rules like "No IC in OOC" "No OOC in IC" "No Metacommunication" and always run extended to see how it would work out on tgcode.

[Screemonster]

I too tried to go to baystation, why should I stay in a place that not only does not accommodate for me with admins (and headmins) that not only do nothing to attempt to encourage roleplay but actively seek to damper it. I could never get into Baystation because there was that whole "barrier of entry" that I had to pass that I could never be bothered to play enough to do so.

I think that was the root of the Baystation/Polaris split or something like that. People wanted high-RP without the stifling REEEE REALISMS REAL PEOPLE NEVER DO ANYTHING FUN OR STEP OUTSIDE THEIR COMFORT ZONES nonsense.

[iamgoofball]

its a video game not a job simulator

[ColonicAcid]

And who are you to decide upon which something starts being a job simulator and stops being a video game?

If people find it fun, it's a game for all I care. I enjoy doing my job whilst building relationships with other ingame characters, that is a """video game""" for me.
If your idea of a videogame is a clown screaming rape on the radio whilst going around at sonic speeds shitting our space lubricant whilst spam emoting farts then that is that, I won't question you on it, it's fucking ~~~~~~~~OBJECTIVE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[TheNightingale]

Basil should be held to a higher standard of roleplay than Sybil, but not as much as Bay/Polaris. If this happens, it'll be the only hub server to actively encourage roleplay beyond Sybil's level (which is still more than NoX, and is about equivalent to Hippie or Goon on average).

If people from the hub see the big "Medium RP" label, join and then aren't into RP, we can direct them to Sybil, where things are more focused on action than characters.

[Scott]

This server is now about Security vs Antags vs Everyone else. The chaotic game modes are too frequent and there is no time for RP and chill rounds.

[confused rock]

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT BASIL TO BE THE HIGH RP SERVER
IT IS ON THE HUB
THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE IT ON THE HUB WHEN THE LOWER RP SERVER CAN BE THERE

[Wyzack]

I already told you the answer to that. No one on Sybil wants that to happen

[oranges]

One of the rounds the Captain kept saying "Cuck that blob!" or "X is a cuck.". By all means shout cuck and shit in OOC, I don't care, but fucking keep that shit out of the game, it's like spouting ayy lmao or whatever, it's dumb, and if you do it in real life you're retarded.

You realise a lot of memes are entering the english language as actual things that people say? You may not like them, but it doesn't make them not RP.

[PKPenguin321]

One of the rounds the Captain kept saying "Cuck that blob!" or "X is a cuck.". By all means shout cuck and shit in OOC, I don't care, but fucking keep that shit out of the game, it's like spouting ayy lmao or whatever, it's dumb, and if you do it in real life you're retarded.

You realise a lot of memes are entering the english language as actual things that people say? You may not like them, but it doesn't make them not RP.

^
language is a crazy, mystical thing

[yackemflam]

What about shitters like me who likes to make maxcap bombs and blows up the station?

NSFW:

as an antag.

[paprika]

It's almost like basil can just remove toxins because toxins isn't actually a job and is just a part of the map

[The Ultimate Chimera]

I try to do a little RP on Basil sometimes, not much though.

[Super Aggro Crag]

i love to roleplay

[PKPenguin321]

RP is fun I agree
There is a pretty decent mix of RP and action here it's just that sometimes you have to go out of your way to find the RP

[Armhulen]

RP is fun I agree
There is a pretty decent mix of RP and action here it's just that sometimes you have to go out of your way to find the RP

This.

[Super Aggro Crag]

i play librarian a lot when rping cuz i can't lat ejoin as a greyshit, i take my camera and become a tabloid journalist and insinuate everyone talking to each other is actually in a love affair

[paprika]

Librarian camera shitposting needs to be brought into the 21st century with clickbait articles and shit

[Anonmare]

Librarian should have the Detective's camera, since that thing has a 20 picture capacity.