Security stealing tank transfer valves?

[Phalanx300]

Is it allowed? Because during this latest Cult round this security officer ran in and stole my backpack (containing plasma tanks) and took all tank transfer valves and put them in a closet running away with my backpack and closet. Then when I tried to stop him he stunned me and quickly ran off. He didn't even give any explaination of what he was doing.

[Saegrimr]

Not unless they have a good reason to, which if this was at round start there is definitely no good reason to.

Feel free to PM me their names and when this happened and i'll look into it.

[Phalanx300]

It was midround when security apparantly knew it was Cult round. However I was unaware that it was, was just minding my own business in science cooling/heating gasses.

[Steelpoint]

Round start stealing of the TTV's is a clear cut situation. However Security taking the TTV's mid round during a high stress/stakes round type (cult) is a lot more situational.

Did Security think Science was overrun with cultists? Do they have evidence? Was this a order from the Captain? Was Red Alert declared? I guess it falls down to if security has reasonable suspicion to suspect that one or more members of science have been subverted by the cult, and that they think there is a good risk of the cult creating bombs.

[Saegrimr]

I checked over the logs and it was handled. But generally yes if its roundstart and people are stealing TTV's thats just straight up meta. If theres a situation where bombing could be a serious hazard, in this case there were suspected cultists in science, the confiscation was justified although flimsy.

[Ikarrus]

Well handled.

[Phalanx300]

I checked over the logs and it was handled. But generally yes if its roundstart and people are stealing TTV's thats just straight up meta. If theres a situation where bombing could be a serious hazard, in this case there were suspected cultists in science, the confiscation was justified although flimsy.

Do note though that no burnmix of any kind was yet created so its a bit doubtful. But yeah just making sure what the policy is on the matter for future reference.

[Malkevin]

If you were a sec officer and knew science probably had brained washed eldrich worshiping crazies in it; would you wait for them to make a bomb, possibly with a suicide trigger, or don't care either way and snatch the bomb stuff pre-emptively?

[Phalanx300]

If you were a sec officer and knew science probably had brained washed eldrich worshiping crazies in it; would you wait for them to make a bomb, possibly with a suicide trigger, or don't care either way and snatch the bomb stuff pre-emptively?

You could make an argument that any time an antag is around you just take all stuff that could be used against you. Its like a officer taking the soap from the prison just in case, incredibly meta.

[Vigilare]

> not taking the soap to clean up your harmbatons so the AI doesn't notice

taking ttvs at roundstart is like taking the mini hoe so they can't break the perma windows

but if sci has cults in it, damn right you take those bombs, otherwise the station is blown up and narnar has risen

[bandit]

From Space Law:

Scientists and Miners are permitted to possess explosives only whilst transporting them to the mining asteroid, otherwise their experimental bombs must remain within the Science department.

If scientists are allowed to make and possess bombs within their department, as I see it security has no right to confiscate bomb-making materials under space law as written. Confiscating the TTVs should instead fall under the purview of the RD, as it's more his job to direct what scientists do. If the RD is cult... well, that's an advantage of having the RD as cult.

(Bombing as cult is fucking stupid, anyway -- what if you gib your sacrifice target? -- so I don't see this coming up often.)

[Steelpoint]

If Security has reasonable suspicion to think that a, or a group of, scientist(s) are going to use a bomb on the station, they are (or they should) within their rights to confiscate any TTV's from Science.

Note the words, reasonable suspicion.

[miggles]

space law is not mandatory
officers are free to do things outside of the law to ensure the safety of the station

[Raven776]

It's good to mention that somewhere on the Wiki, this sort of thing is even advised during a cult round.

While the Wiki isn't any sort of ruleset, it's hard to blame some new security member for following the only helpful guide he can find.

[Malkevin]

From Space Law:

Scientists and Miners are permitted to possess explosives only whilst transporting them to the mining asteroid, otherwise their experimental bombs must remain within the Science department.

If scientists are allowed to make and possess bombs within their department, as I see it security has no right to confiscate bomb-making materials under space law as written. Confiscating the TTVs should instead fall under the purview of the RD, as it's more his job to direct what scientists do. If the RD is cult... well, that's an advantage of having the RD as cult.

(Bombing as cult is fucking stupid, anyway -- what if you gib your sacrifice target? -- so I don't see this coming up often.)

Don't forget bandit, I'm the one that wrote that note for the law "Possession: Explosives".

The note is there to add an exception to that law to prevent actual true shitcurity bursting into science, arresting the toxins working scientist and going "Hurr... you have bomb, brig time for you" - under normal conditions.

Cult and rev, even suspected traitor scientist, are not normal conditions. They're probable cause to believe that there is a high likelihood that those bombs pose a threat to the station and crew.

[rockpecker]

The obvious objection to security stealing the TTVs is that security shouldn't know what a TTV is. This is a light-RP server, so security isn't required to roleplay "not knowing what a TTV is", but I would argue that they are required to roleplay "respecting scientists' right to do their goddamn jobs".

The related problem is that a TTV is a bomb detonator and nothing else, so it's trivial to meta it as "you don't need a bunch of bomb detonators lying around". Accordingly, I'd like to see

(1) TTVs used in more station equipment, like cryo tubes, chemical dispensers, etc., and
(2) Mining actually needing bombs to breach certain parts of the asteroid where the good stuff is found.

[Saegrimr]

The obvious objection to security stealing the TTVs is that security shouldn't know what a TTV is.

Stop right there. We don't enforce ignorance of antagonist items like Baystation or some other "heavy RP" servers do. Theres no way we're going to enforce people not knowing how to do things outside of the job they signed up for.

[rockpecker]

The obvious objection to security stealing the TTVs is that security shouldn't know what a TTV is.

Stop right there.

Or you could read the very next thing I said:

This is a light-RP server, so security isn't required to roleplay "not knowing what a TTV is",

[Saegrimr]

Or you could read the very next thing I said:

But I already stopped right there.

[callanrockslol]

The obvious objection to security stealing the TTVs is that security shouldn't know what a TTV is.

Stop right there.

Or you could read the very next thing I said:

This is a light-RP server, so security isn't required to roleplay "not knowing what a TTV is",

> immortal space psychopaths shouldn't know what the explosives are

Never.

[Incomptinence]

In group antagonist rounds sec/heads may even reach a point where they may need to use explosives themselves.

Hard to pin down the point where you are totally unlikely to run into a non antagonist ever again but it can happen.

[miggles]

Or you could read the very next thing I said:

But I already stopped right there.

start right here