Raise the bomb cap.
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Raise the bomb cap.
No, hear me out.
Currently, thanks to Syndicate Bombs being widely available both to traitors and to double agents, most of the other antag modes having no use for bombs, thanks to suicide bombing being a bannable offense and mining bombs being nigh-useless even if they were literally ever used, toxins never sees meaningful use. Anyone who wants boom can get a good-enough boom out of a syndicate bomb; it takes longer, but in practice the length is not enough for anyone to actually make toxins bombs instead. I can't remember the last time I saw a classic TTV, let alone canisters or any of the more obscure varieties; this is because the risk-reward tradeoff is just not enough to justify the extra effort. Plus it renders an already pretty-useless department even more useless.
To top it off, admins are known to remove the bomb cap if the right people ask at the right times with the stars aligned, so it's not even as if it's a solid limitation, it depends on admin whims, which is never good.
So my proposal is to raise the bomb cap. Not remove it, raise it. How much? I don't know, it'll require (gasp) playtesting, and the input of people who can into toxins better than I can, but there must be some better triangulation of "worth the effort" and "won't crash the serber" than the one we have.
Currently, thanks to Syndicate Bombs being widely available both to traitors and to double agents, most of the other antag modes having no use for bombs, thanks to suicide bombing being a bannable offense and mining bombs being nigh-useless even if they were literally ever used, toxins never sees meaningful use. Anyone who wants boom can get a good-enough boom out of a syndicate bomb; it takes longer, but in practice the length is not enough for anyone to actually make toxins bombs instead. I can't remember the last time I saw a classic TTV, let alone canisters or any of the more obscure varieties; this is because the risk-reward tradeoff is just not enough to justify the extra effort. Plus it renders an already pretty-useless department even more useless.
To top it off, admins are known to remove the bomb cap if the right people ask at the right times with the stars aligned, so it's not even as if it's a solid limitation, it depends on admin whims, which is never good.
So my proposal is to raise the bomb cap. Not remove it, raise it. How much? I don't know, it'll require (gasp) playtesting, and the input of people who can into toxins better than I can, but there must be some better triangulation of "worth the effort" and "won't crash the serber" than the one we have.
-
- Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:56 am
- Byond Username: Erbbu
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
[youtube]A8VqdhNnwdY[/youtube]
- Drynwyn
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:09 pm
- Byond Username: Drynwyn
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
This idea pleases me. I think a small-yet-significant uptick to the bomb cap might be good.
In game, I play the A.I Firmware, the French cyborg C.U.R.I.E, Aubrie Allen, and the lizard scum Skulks-Through-Maintenance.
- MMMiracles
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:27 am
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- Github Username: MMMiracles
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
With help of atmos, it's completely possible to crash the server with a good enough mix. The bomb cap exists to prevent this, more or less.
Spoiler:
- Shaps-cloud
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:25 am
- Byond Username: Shaps
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
If people put in the time to actually use toxins, they can completely and utterly fuck the station, almost as bad as a singulo in some cases (see: Bones McGee as a traitor scientist). I think it's more that people are too lazy to fully utilize toxins on a round to round basis, which is probably a good thing
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
As someone who uses toxins consistently as a traitor, you can easily get 6 max cap bombs within ten minutes. And with the use of smugglers bags can easily hide them even in high profile areas. I think the bomb cap is good where it is. The six bombs are more than enough to completely destroy the station. If anything I would support lowering the TC cost for the syndicate bomb because of the mandatory timer.
Last edited by TechnoAlchemist on Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Sometinyprick
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 pm
- Byond Username: STP
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
the last time i increased the cap the server literally broke, and that was at 7,14,28
at best it could be increased to 5,10,20 or 4,8,16 and six bombs would have to go off at once without causing serious lag
there is also balance issues due to the intensely destructive nature of bombs and the fuckton of damage they can do
at best it could be increased to 5,10,20 or 4,8,16 and six bombs would have to go off at once without causing serious lag
there is also balance issues due to the intensely destructive nature of bombs and the fuckton of damage they can do
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
5/10/20 or 4/8/16 would workSometinyprick wrote:the last time i increased the cap the server literally broke, and that was at 7,14,28
at best it could be increased to 5,10,20 or 4,8,16 and six bombs would have to go off at once without causing serious lag
there is also balance issues due to the intensely destructive nature of bombs and the fuckton of damage they can do
- Lumbermancer
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumbermancer
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
It seems like you want an easier way to force the shuttle call.
That's from three days ago. Was cap changed since then?
Spoiler:
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
No? I suck at toxins. I just want to encourage people to actually work to get a decent-sized bomb instead of instant syndibombs.Lumbermancer wrote:It seems like you want an easier way to force the shuttle call.
Last edited by bandit on Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
We really don't need the bomb cap increased. I find it perfectly satisfactory if not strong as is as long as you know how to do it. Toxins is better than syndibombs anyways.
- Sometinyprick
- In-Game Game Master
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- Byond Username: STP
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
except these bombs are 7,14,28 raised in a single round and over twice the normal cap.Lumbermancer wrote:It seems like you want an easier way to force the shuttle call.
That's from three days ago. Was cap changed since then?Spoiler:
the problem is that when things explode due to new features a lot of objects move around too and this causes even more lag also.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me
- Tokiko2
- Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:18 am
- Byond Username: Tokiko1
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
I always thought that supermatter shard explosions and nitroglycerin bombs should have their own, higher bombcaps because they're more difficult to get/set up.
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
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- Location: cooler than thou
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
I cranked it one step up for Laharl once and it lagged the server really horribly and TOTALLY fucked the station to the point where if this was the norm it would just be a balance issue.
Also toxins is crazy useful on a round to round basis
140 TC Marauder? DEAD
Blob? FUCKING OBLITERATED
Cultists trying to group? SHUNT THINE MORTAL COIL
Also toxins is crazy useful on a round to round basis
140 TC Marauder? DEAD
Blob? FUCKING OBLITERATED
Cultists trying to group? SHUNT THINE MORTAL COIL
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
- Saegrimr
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
- Byond Username: Saegrimr
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
It did for a while. Supermatter was a dev 8 explosion but that got removed for reasons. Probably because the general effects of the supermatter are deadly enough as it is.Tokiko2 wrote:I always thought that supermatter shard explosions and nitroglycerin bombs should have their own, higher bombcaps because they're more difficult to get/set up.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
and then, in all cases except blob (and even then, probably in blob): BWOINK! BANNED!Scones wrote:I cranked it one step up for Laharl once and it lagged the server really horribly and TOTALLY fucked the station to the point where if this was the norm it would just be a balance issue.
Also toxins is crazy useful on a round to round basis
140 TC Marauder? DEAD
Blob? FUCKING OBLITERATED
Cultists trying to group? SHUNT THINE MORTAL COIL
- Scones
- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
- Byond Username: Scones
- Location: cooler than thou
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
I've done all of these multiple times without even being questioned by admins or other players. You just have to be smart with your bombs and not a friendly fire mongoloid.bandit wrote:and then, in all cases except blob (and even then, probably in blob): BWOINK! BANNED!Scones wrote:I cranked it one step up for Laharl once and it lagged the server really horribly and TOTALLY fucked the station to the point where if this was the norm it would just be a balance issue.
Also toxins is crazy useful on a round to round basis
140 TC Marauder? DEAD
Blob? FUCKING OBLITERATED
Cultists trying to group? SHUNT THINE MORTAL COIL
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
I think the bomb cap is fine as is, it's already a case that if one bomb goes off the shuttle gets called because no-one can be arsed fixing the damage
And uplink bombs are a thing that never should've happened
And uplink bombs are a thing that never should've happened
- PKPenguin321
- Site Admin
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Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Spoiler:
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- MMMiracles
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:27 am
- Byond Username: MMMiracles
- Github Username: MMMiracles
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Cargo can order more TTVs last time I checked, just the act of managing them to actually order them without getting a big o' red flag by the sheer act of requestiong a crate just steers people away from them.PKPenguin321 wrote:Bombcap seems fine as it stands, honestly. You get a nice balance of station destruction without it being game-breaking while not being completely useless. Not to mention, server stability stands fine with what the bomb cap is at. If what you want is more destruction and explosions, maybe what we need are more TTVs in science at roundstart.Spoiler:
Spoiler:
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Yeah, this exactly. There is a way to get more TTVs, but it's practically impossible due to the meta being that the only reason more TTVs would ever be needed is because of on-station bombing. I've never actually seen a TTV crate get purchased, much less delivered to science. Again, more at roundstart would solve this issue.MMMiracles wrote:Cargo can order more TTVs last time I checked, just the act of managing them to actually order them without getting a big o' red flag by the sheer act of requestiong a crate just steers people away from them.PKPenguin321 wrote:snip
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- MisterPerson
- Board Moderator
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
- Byond Username: MisterPerson
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
This is a server config issue, not a code development issue.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
Feedback is dumb and it doesn't matter
- leibniz
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
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- Location: Seeking help
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
I agree, could be fun, stuff above this could cause performance issues.bandit wrote:5/10/20 or 4/8/16 would workSometinyprick wrote:the last time i increased the cap the server literally broke, and that was at 7,14,28
at best it could be increased to 5,10,20 or 4,8,16 and six bombs would have to go off at once without causing serious lag
there is also balance issues due to the intensely destructive nature of bombs and the fuckton of damage they can do
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement
- TechnoAlchemist
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
- Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
A ttv crate is incredibly expensive in terms of cargo points.MMMiracles wrote:Cargo can order more TTVs last time I checked, just the act of managing them to actually order them without getting a big o' red flag by the sheer act of requestiong a crate just steers people away from them.PKPenguin321 wrote:Bombcap seems fine as it stands, honestly. You get a nice balance of station destruction without it being game-breaking while not being completely useless. Not to mention, server stability stands fine with what the bomb cap is at. If what you want is more destruction and explosions, maybe what we need are more TTVs in science at roundstart.Spoiler:
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Not irrelevant when people in this thread are basing their reasoning for increasing the bomb cap on the fact that no one bothers using ttv bombs due to uplink bombs being almost as good, you dork.PKPenguin321 wrote:opinion + irrelevantMalkevin wrote:And uplink bombs are a thing that never should've happened
- Sometinyprick
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 pm
- Byond Username: STP
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Uplink bombs are small in devastation and usefulness when compared to normal capped bombs.
Specifically with "normal" bombs you get six bombs with a range of 3 devastation 7 heavy damage and 14 light. These bombs can be carried and are generally more useful for surprising people.
With the syndicate bomb you get one rather obvious bulky bomb which must be dragged and does 2,5,11. The only real advantage they have is that they can be used early in the round but even then if your quick enough you can make normal ttv bombs very quickly too roughly in about a minute or two with the same damage.
Basically they are nowhere near as good as normal tank transfer valve bombs.
Specifically with "normal" bombs you get six bombs with a range of 3 devastation 7 heavy damage and 14 light. These bombs can be carried and are generally more useful for surprising people.
With the syndicate bomb you get one rather obvious bulky bomb which must be dragged and does 2,5,11. The only real advantage they have is that they can be used early in the round but even then if your quick enough you can make normal ttv bombs very quickly too roughly in about a minute or two with the same damage.
Basically they are nowhere near as good as normal tank transfer valve bombs.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me
- Kangaraptor
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- Location: dank memes
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
as much as removing/upping the bombcap would be !!fun!!
do you really want this to happen every other round?
pretty sure this is the reason nobody ever removes bombcap for me anymore :'(
edit: for reference, this was 4 10/20/41 ttv bombs.
do you really want this to happen every other round?
pretty sure this is the reason nobody ever removes bombcap for me anymore :'(
edit: for reference, this was 4 10/20/41 ttv bombs.
- bandit
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
- Byond Username: Bgobandit
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
cool that people are talking about removing the bomb cap entirely and basing their counter-arguments on that when what is actually being proposed is just one or two ticks up (5/10/20 or 4/8/16)
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
That's how debating works here.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
- PKPenguin321
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Re: Raise the bomb cap.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
- Sometinyprick
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:24 pm
- Byond Username: STP
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Yea, if it's not going to cause lag I see no problems with raising the cap a little bit, I would think 4dev or 5dev would be a good choice.
i play leo bonhart, feel free to grief me
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
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- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
no
I was around for Cuban Pete. Never again.
I was around for Cuban Pete. Never again.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
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- DemonFiren
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
- Byond Username: DemonFiren
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
It's not 'remove the bomb cap', it's not 'double the bomb cap', it's 'make TTVs the most powerful ordnance again, if only by a tiny bit.'
-
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:40 am
- Byond Username: Lumipharon
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
With the upcoming pr that effects how explosions work (walls an r-walls etc limit explosions), it does actually make sense to raise the bomb cap - by how much I'm not sure.
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
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- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: Raise the bomb cap.
Fair enough. Probably should if walls are going to react realistically.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- Sometinyprick
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