[Subtlegraces] Greyhoundfd - Jobbanned (resolved)

[Greyhoundfd]

Byond account and character name: Greyhoundfd, Tyrone
Banning admin: Subtlegraces
Ban reason and length: You have been banned by subtlegraces.
Reason: As HoS: Demoted the Captain at gunpoint because they took the Centcomm report seriously (Accepting that there might be revs and a wizard IC) and gave an excessive brig sentence to a thief on the bridge. You can't just villify and demote someone because they're new.
This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 120 minutes. (Also told that I would be jobbanned from head positions)
Time ban was placed (including time zone):~4:00 PM EST

Your side of the story: Started off the round and received multiple false alarms from the captain about a Wizard and Nuke-Ops. After being told they were due to the centcomm report listing the possibility for both of these things, both I and the CMO sent out messages stating that the captain may be new to the position. Then, after reports of a possible break-in at the captain's office, the captain and I checked to see if anything had been stolen. Both his chain of command and the antique laser had been taken. At this point, the captain stated over the radio that anyone with his equipment would be killed, and insulted security for not already having caught the thief. While my subordinates dealt with the thief, he stated that I should have my detective permabrigged for securing the Antique Laser which was retrieved from his office (the captain had not already secured it). At this point, I and the rest of the heads agreed that this person did not know what they were doing, and after dealing with the thief, I reported to the captain's office and ordered the AI to seal the room. I then entered the room, and stated that the captain was being removed from command. He accused me of being a rev and a traitor, and refused to comply. At this point, I stunned him, removed him from the room, removed his equipment, and demoted him. I was then messaged by Subtlegraces, and following a long discussion he accused me of only removing the captain for OOC reasons and said that I would be removed from the round followed by a Job ban from all head positions.

Why you think you should be unbanned: As I had said to Subtlegraces multiple times, the captain demonstrated that he was not ready to be in the captain position at least three times, and there was an agreement among several heads that the captain should be removed. I tried to be diplomatic, and said that I would hold a vote, and if even one head dissented I would reinstate the captain. The vote was unanimously against him being reinstated, and when I told Subtlegraces this, he accused me of fomenting hatred towards the captain. While I am fine with the tempban, a job ban from all head positions is entirely unnecessary. The captain clearly did not know what he was doing since the start of the round, the was an agreement among the heads that he should be removed, and even the crew believed that he was a poor captain since long before he was demoted. I am entirely justified in removing heads who are unfit for their position, if there is an agreement that they should be removed.

[Hornygranny]

You are not "securing" the antique laser by removing it from the Captain's office, you are breaking his display case and metagaming. This is a roleplaying game, and you are clearly playing to win.

[Greyhoundfd]

You are not "securing" the antique laser by removing it from the Captain's office, you are breaking his display case and metagaming. This is a roleplaying game, and you are clearly playing to win.

That was not me, that was the detective, as I said.

If you want to discuss it with the detective of that round, I still have his name.

[Subtle]

I won't argue that the Captain was a sharp tool, he's clearly inexperienced as you insist.

As we discussed however that's not an appropriate reason for him to be demoted at gunpoint by the HoS. The Centcomm report lists several threats and the only reason you could have for getting upset about him taking it seriously is your OOC knowledge that it's useless. You start sending out PDA messages to garner support against him and immediately arrest him rather than the thief when someone steals from the Captain's office. Seems to me you'd already decided you didn't like the way he did things and just needed an excuse.

Why would the detective need to "secure" something in a glass display case?
That's absolute nonsense, it's already secure. The Captain can be angry that someone is busting up his office and taking things.

Your course of action would be dealing with the thief, then raise your objections about his sentence, not immediately demote/strip/throw out the Cap and his gear.

[Greyhoundfd]

I won't argue that the Captain was a sharp tool, he's clearly inexperienced as you insist.

As we discussed however that's not an appropriate reason for him to be demoted at gunpoint by the HoS. The Centcomm report lists several threats and the only reason you could have for getting upset about him taking it seriously is your OOC knowledge that it's useless. You start sending out PDA messages to garner support against him and immediately arrest him rather than the thief when someone steals from the Captain's office. Seems to me you'd already decided you didn't like the way he did things and just needed an excuse.

Why would the detective need to "secure" something in a glass display case?
That's absolute nonsense, it's already secure. The Captain can be angry that someone is busting up his office and taking things.

Your course of action would be dealing with the thief, then raise your objections about his sentence, not immediately demote/strip/throw out the Cap and his gear.

"Start sending out PDA messages?" I sent one PDA message that entire round, and all it said was "No", because someone asked me if I wanted to be a borg. I also did deal with the thief, as I told you, by sicking beepsky on him and not taking any actions against the captain until I received the message that he had been arrested. I also did not remove him at gunpoint, I walked in and stated that due to him being unready for duty I was removing him from office. He's the one who refused, and started advancing towards me, so I stunned him.

[Subtle]

Excuse me then, I misinterpreted your meaning of "messages", but if you were announcing it that's just as meta and plain dickish.

Sicking Beepsky on the thief while you go threaten the Captain is not dealing with him (and yes, backing up your threat with an egun is doing it at gunpoint)

[Greyhoundfd]

Excuse me then, I misinterpreted your meaning of "messages", but if you were announcing it that's just as meta and plain dickish.

Sicking Beepsky on the thief while you go threaten the Captain is not dealing with him (and yes, backing up your threat with an egun is doing it at gunpoint)

At the same time, I question how removing someone who rather clearly is not ready for even the CMO head position from what is singularly the most important position in the entire game is in any way a violation of any server rules. I did not harm him, I removed a "comdom" from office before he could follow through with his threats of permabrigging and execution for a minor thief. The action was supported by essentially every other player in the game, every head, the crew, not even one person besides the captain said anything negative about me removing him from office. Hell, some people even hugged me after I did it. I doubt there would be any complaints if I had removed the CMO after he had been fucking around on the job and promoted a doctor to replace him, or the CE if he had been sitting in his office doing nothing while the singularity was untouched, so why am I job banned for removing a captain who has done absolutely nothing to indicate he even realizes what he is supposed to do, let alone that the wording on the centcomm sheet says that there is only the possibility of certain antagonist positions.

[Subtle]

It boils down to this. Your reasons for demoting him, another player in a goofy spaceman game, are entirely based around the fact that he sucks as a player.

Since this is a roleplaying game that isn't cool. It's being a dick to him because you don't like the way he plays, essentially. Your arguments about 'the whole crew' supporting you might be heavily biased by the fact that you went out of your way to publicly vilify him and garner their support. People on /tg/ jumped to conclusions and have issues with authority? That's pretty much every round ever. Also breaking into the Captain's office, stealing things and running is not "minor theft", and in fact you have a hundred ways to oppose that (arguably valid) decision to permabrig him without jumping immediately to mutiny. You're defending greytide because the Captain didn't powergame hard enough for you.

Also yes, I'd have banned you for abusing your authority over any other Head of Staff as HoS. We're playing a game, not everybody is as probust as you.

[Greyhoundfd]

It boils down to this. Your reasons for demoting him, another player in a goofy spaceman game, are entirely based around the fact that he sucks as a player.

Since this is a roleplaying game that isn't cool. It's being a dick to him because you don't like the way he plays, essentially. Your arguments about 'the whole crew' supporting you might be heavily biased by the fact that you went out of your way to publicly vilify him and garner their support. People on /tg/ jumped to conclusions and have issues with authority? That's pretty much every round ever. Also breaking into the Captain's office, stealing things and running is not "minor theft", and in fact you have a hundred ways to oppose that (arguably valid) decision to permabrig him without jumping immediately to mutiny. You're defending greytide because the Captain didn't powergame hard enough for you.

Also yes, I'd have banned you for abusing your authority over any other Head of Staff as HoS. We're playing a game, not everybody is as probust as you.

Like I've said before, the only person who vilified the captain is the captain. I mentioned I thought he didn't know what he was doing. He was the one screaming into the radio "KILL ANYBODY WITH ANY OF MY THINGS!"

[Amelius]

I believe I played that round. The Captain was Reid Forcell, was it not?

It boils down to this. Your reasons for demoting him, another player in a goofy spaceman game, are entirely based around the fact that he sucks as a player.

Heads are supposed to be the leaders of the station. Not the most inept and hotheaded folks that they'll start executing random people on the spot and shouting over radio. The Captain was not ready for his position, the crew agreed, unanimously, that he should be replaced, and the heads agreed as much as well. There was no massive meta-conspiracy against him. This was an IC issue, decided in IC, with non-lethal means, to remove and replace an unfit person from a position that should require hefty experience. He went far beyond simply 'being a bad player', and ventured into 'being an new/inexperienced player'. There's a reason that certain jobs require a certain amount of time played, but even that isn't enough for many people. It's not about robustness, as you claim, it's about knowledge of the roles and responsibilites, and appropriate behaviour, and he proved that he didn't have either.

The very notion that the Captain himself suggested that the head of security, implant included, was a revolutionary at a point, is beyond appauling alone. Are you making the claim that Reid was ready for the job? Despite calling for random stationwide lynchings, announcing immature, nonsensical priority announcements, and failing to follow any sort of security regulation? I believe in the same round, or perhaps the round before it, he was trying to inject anyone and everyone in robotics with random blood-filled syringes he found on the floor to, as he announced after-the-fact, 'test them', as Captain. It was just one instance of flagarantly unacceptable behaviour, for someone in command of the entire station, after another, almost like a perpetual trainwreck.

[Greyhoundfd]

I believe I played that round. The Captain was Reid Forcell, was it not?

Yeah, that's who it was.

[Subtle]

Since this they've demonstrated similar poor behavior in further rounds and received a command ban for it.
While I don't exactly agree with how it was dealt with I'll accept Reid's player is in no way fit to be in charge of any department, or the ship.

I'll lift the ban, if anything remains of it, immediately and offer my apologies for what little they mean.

[Greyhoundfd]

Since this they've demonstrated similar poor behavior in further rounds and received a command ban for it.
While I don't exactly agree with how it was dealt with I'll accept Reid's player is in no way fit to be in charge of any department, or the ship.

I'll lift the ban, if anything remains of it, immediately and offer my apologies for what little they mean.

That's all I ever asked for, thank you. My guess is we'll see a "4 no raison" ban appeal pop up sometime soon.