[ausops] swagbringer - head of staff and sec ban

[Swagbringer]

Byond account and character name: Swagbringer - Jingfei Zhao
Banning admin: ausops
Ban type (What are you banned from?): head of staff roles, security roles, 3 day server ban
Ban reason and length: Killed two people as a captain after making a law saying 'being rude is illegal'. Also indirectly caused the death of another person fnr due to sec enforcing this law.
4320 minutes
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2017-07-10 17:45:33
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil I believe
Your side of the story:

This is a partial appeal based on 1) the mess the round was in 2) incomplete information.

I latejoined as Captain to find that the HoP had given a traitor clown the role of Head of security. I went to my office to tool up but found my egun had been stolen, so I took the captains gun with me. Since half of my command staff were antags I basically shit the bed and decided to institute martial law, declaring anyone who was rude or challenged me a death sentence. A miner then told me to go fuck myself and I ended up seeing him in cargo and shooting him. This was the first death. I am not appealing this one(although I believe I was in the right. an admin was paying attention to the round and had even spawned in earlier and was talking to me about a completely different topic and never mentioned my martial law so i assumed it was ok, this is another matter you can read about here https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=12056).

After killing the miner a cargo technician began trying to disarm me. As stated earlier I had no egun and had only my laser and sword on me. I was in a crit or be killed situation. I wasnt planning on having the cargotech killed but I died shortly after being chased by people so I couldnt help him. I dont have any evidence in regards to this unfortunately but I hope you can take me at face value. He tried to knock me over and take my shit and I didnt have any other option but to crit him.

Finally on the third person dying. This is the situation I cannot really understand. If my law was not permissable, then I am guilty for having killed the miner. But if that law isnt allowed, why am I being punished for what another security officer did? The admin states I wasnt allowed to institute death sentence for challenging the captain, so why should I be punished if sec does that? I didnt have the authority to do that, no more than a botanist or atmos tech has to order security to kill people. Either my word is law and killing the miner is justified or it isnt in which case the murder of the third person is on the officer himself.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I would like another admin to look into this case, due to the further info given here and and the admins state of mind at the time, as can be seen here https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=12056

[captain sawrge]

Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.

Random murders are not acceptable nor is the killing of other players for poor or little reasoning such as ‘My character is insane’. Each unjustified kill is normally met with one 24 ban.

"Fuck you" isn't ever valid grounds to kill someone as a non-antagonist. You do not get to decide what does and does not constitute a death sentence.

After killing the miner a cargo technician began trying to disarm me. As stated earlier I had no egun and had only my laser and sword on me. I was in a crit or be killed situation.

HoS armor is strong enough that the half second you are knocked down for isn't enough time to crit you. Choosing not to carry any of the plentiful non-lethal options sec has does not give you the right to start using unjustified lethal force.

Finally on the third person dying. This is the situation I cannot really understand. If my law was not permissable, then I am guilty for having killed the miner. But if that law isnt allowed, why am I being punished for what another security officer did? The admin states I wasnt allowed to institute death sentence for challenging the captain, so why should I be punished if sec does that? I didnt have the authority to do that, no more than a botanist or atmos tech has to order security to kill people. Either my word is law and killing the miner is justified or it isnt in which case the murder of the third person is on the officer himself.

If you kill someone with a hammer, the hammer doesn't go to jail.

[Swagbringer]

As I said in my post I am not arguing the first kill, I am fine with the admins decision.

I was the captain that latejoined. The head of security was an antagonist with the entire stock of armory. I quite literally did not have any non lethal way to stop anyone as my egun and flash were stolen. I didn't want to kill the cargo tech and wasn't able to save him due to being hunted. I think it's unfair to blame me for this.

Okay for the third one if that's general policy well that's that.

Thank you for looking at this.

[PKPenguin321]

I'm going to say now that this ban should absolutely stick, but the length can be up for debate.

Mostly, my reasoning is this from logs,

this is a more fuller picture:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

	Line 633: [17:26:59]ACCESS: Mob Login: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
	Line 677: [17:27:53]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : your both on my kill list (121,137,2)
	Line 696: [17:28:19]SAY: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) has made a priority announcement: Being rude is now a death sentence, thanks (120,135,2)
	Line 710: [17:28:33]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : kill jebediah on sight clown, order given (116,129,2)
	Line 737: [17:29:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket #3: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao): Why am i unable to purchase a shuttle? - heard by 1 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
	Line 740: [17:29:23]ACCESS: Mob Login: Ausops/(ghost) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
	Line 743: [17:29:36]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has used rudimentary transformation on Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks). Transforming to human.; deletemob=1
	Line 744: [17:29:36]ACCESS: Mob Login: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
	Line 749: [17:29:41]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) spawned /obj/item/clothing/under/acj at (107,135,2)
	Line 761: [17:29:49]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) spawned /obj/item/weapon/card/id/captains_spare at (106,135,2)
	Line 774: [17:30:05]SAY: Allad Minsa Recucks (as Captain)/Ausops : dunno (106,135,2)
	Line 777: [17:30:09]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : ok (108,138,2)
	Line 778: [17:30:10]SAY: Allad Minsa Recucks (as Captain)/Ausops : can you even afford any (106,135,2)
	Line 780: [17:30:11]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : its fine (108,138,2)
	Line 783: [17:30:17]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : we can afford shitty stuff (107,136,2)
	Line 790: [17:30:23]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : but there should be a greyed out menu (107,136,2)
	Line 795: [17:30:28]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : even if we cant afford it (107,136,2)
	Line 796: [17:30:29]SAY: Allad Minsa Recucks (as Captain)/Ausops : might be disabled (106,134,2)
	Line 799: [17:30:32]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : must be (105,136,2)
	Line 800: [17:30:33]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) deleted Allad Minsa Recucks (as Captain) at (106, 134, 2)
	Line 801: [17:30:33]ACCESS: Mob Login: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
	Line 841: [17:31:12]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : henk (112,174,2)
	Line 951: [17:33:05]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : im sorry (78,137,2)
	Line 955: [17:33:09]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : but the rules are the rules (78,137,2)
	Line 1009: [17:34:09]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) checked antagonists.
	Line 1011: [17:34:11]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : fuck you all (109,208,2)
	Line 1016: [17:34:15]SAY: Jingfei Zhao/Swagbringer : no one insults me (114,213,2)
	Line 1021: [17:34:21]ACCESS: Mob Login: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
	Line 1060: [17:34:39]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : i win jeb, i win (132,168,2)
	Line 1084: [17:35:02]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : it wasnt at random (145,245,2)
	Line 1094: [17:35:15]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks)->Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao): what happened to the cargotech and miner
	Line 1096: [17:35:18]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : i killed jeb cause he was rude, i killed you because you tried to disarm me when i had my gun out (145,245,2)
	Line 1108: [17:35:30]ADMIN: DSAY: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kill a man because he was rude (94,92,2)
	Line 1112: [17:35:34]ADMIN: DSAY: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) : ?? (93,91,2)
	Line 1203: [17:36:26]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao)->Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks): I insituted a rule that swearing was now a death sentence, Jebediah immediately threatened my rule by saying "fuck you" over the radio. I hunted him down and killed him like the dog he is, the cargotech tried to disarm me so i fucked him up too. Then i spaced me and the miner so no one would dare be rude again, thats the basic gist of it.
	Line 1220: [17:36:44]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks)->Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao): are you under the influence
	Line 1230: [17:36:55]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao)->Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks): Its like 6:30pm here no way
	Line 1281: [17:37:34]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : dont break the law (107,131,2)
	Line 1288: [17:37:37]ADMIN: Ausops replied to Maciekkub/(Fulton Fuchs)'s Centcom message with the message We are currently investigating these two alleged murders, please assume the role of acting captain in the meantime..
	Line 1291: [17:37:39]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : and get upset when you get punished (107,131,2)
	Line 1333: [17:38:11]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks)->Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao): Making a silly law like that doesn't mean you get to kill people
	Line 1367: [17:38:42]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao)->Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks): it wasnt so much the law, as the fact he challenged my supreme authority. if you dont cut down all the small things, then next thing they are murderboning across the station
	Line 1432: [17:39:45]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks)->Mikey555/(Luke Gadow): what happened with Holly Lamont?
	Line 1448: [17:39:57]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Mikey555/(Luke Gadow)->Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks): i was merely following the captain's orders of "being rude is illegal"
	Line 1462: [17:40:12]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks)->Mikey555/(Luke Gadow): do server rules allow players to kill someone for merely being rude
	Line 1475: [17:40:24]ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Mikey555/(Luke Gadow)->Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks): i believe the captain is at fault here for making this announcement: Being rude is now a death sentence, thanks
	Line 1520: [17:40:52]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has created a command report: The captain, Jingfei Zhao, is hereby demoted to assistant. Any prior rulings made by them are now void under pain of bluespace artillery.
	Line 1559: [17:41:44]ADMIN: DSAY: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) : be fucking retarded that's what (77,141,2)
	Line 1560: [17:41:45]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : i enforced the stations law (119,170,2)
	Line 1570: [17:41:51]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : I AM THE LAW (119,170,2)
	Line 1584: [17:42:05]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : just look at this shitshow (117,170,2)
	Line 1587: [17:42:08]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : sec murdering ho (117,170,2)
	Line 1589: [17:42:09]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : hop (117,170,2)
	Line 1590: [17:42:11]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : a clown hos (117,170,2)
	Line 1592: [17:42:14]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : its madness (117,170,2)
	Line 1595: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Captain for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1596: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Head of Personnel for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1597: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Head of Security for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1598: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Chief Engineer for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1599: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Research Director for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1600: [17:42:16]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Chief Medical Officer for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1614: [17:42:29]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Warden for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1615: [17:42:29]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Detective for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1616: [17:42:29]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) temp-jobbanned Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao) from Security Officer for 696969 minutes.
	Line 1621: [17:42:35]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : >fnr (106,136,2)
	Line 1636: [17:42:45]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : he literally broke the law i said how is that fnr (106,136,2)
	Line 1680: [17:43:22]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : just one asswipe (103,141,2)
	Line 1693: [17:43:28]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : who tried to start shit (103,141,2)
	Line 1718: [17:43:52]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has created a command report: We are also confining the captain to bluespace prison for one roll of a d6. Those who would like to attend the public dice rolling are welcome to attend in front of the brid- oh ok maybe not with bombs going off.
	Line 1725: [17:43:59]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) jumped to Thunderdome (Admin.)
	Line 1734: [17:44:10]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has used rudimentary transformation on Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks). Transforming to human.; deletemob=1
	Line 1735: [17:44:10]ACCESS: Mob Login: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
	Line 1740: [17:44:14]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : you do realise im dead right ausops? (124,153,2)
	Line 1743: [17:44:16]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) spawned /obj/item/weapon/dice/d6 at (171,48,1)
	Line 1752: [17:44:23]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) admin ghosted.
	Line 1753: [17:44:23]ACCESS: Mob Login: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
	Line 1765: [17:44:42]ADMIN: DSAY: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) : you have prior notes on being dumb as a head (168,49,1)
	Line 1769: [17:44:50]ADMIN: DSAY: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) : the d6 was to determine ban length (168,49,1)
	Line 1774: [17:44:56]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : wew lad (124,153,2)
	Line 1820: [17:45:33]ADMINPRIVATE: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has banned swagbringer.
	Line 1821: Reason: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao)
	Line 1823: [17:45:33]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;ahelp=[0x21000cee];ahelp_action=ticket'>#3</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=ausops'>Ausops</a>/(Allad Minsa Recucks)
	Line 1824: [17:45:33]ACCESS: Logout: Swagbringer/(Jingfei Zhao)
	Line 1952: [17:47:13]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has created a command report: The ex-captain has been confined away from any space related for 4320 minutes. The detective is reminded under pain of death via bluespace artillery to not enforce any of the late captain's rulings.
	Line 1974: [17:47:31]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;ahelp=[0x21000d59];ahelp_action=ticket'>#2</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=ausops'>Ausops</a>/(Allad Minsa Recucks)
	Line 1976: [17:47:37]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;ahelp=[0x210343c9];ahelp_action=ticket'>#4</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=ausops'>Ausops</a>/(Allad Minsa Recucks)
	Line 1982: [17:47:40]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;ahelp=[0x210344cc];ahelp_action=ticket'>#5</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=ausops'>Ausops</a>/(Allad Minsa Recucks)
	Line 2003: [17:47:52]ADMINPRIVATE: Ticket <A HREF='?_src_=holder;ahelp=[0x21034450];ahelp_action=ticket'>#6</A> resolved by <a href='?priv_msg=ausops'>Ausops</a>/(Allad Minsa Recucks)
	Line 2016: [17:48:07]ADMIN: Ausops/(Allad Minsa Recucks) has created a command report: We rolled a 4. That's 4 days or 4320 minutes.

Specifically,

Line 1560: [17:41:45]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : i enforced the stations law (119,170,2)
Line 1570: [17:41:51]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : I AM THE LAW (119,170,2)
Line 1584: [17:42:05]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : just look at this shitshow (117,170,2)
Line 1587: [17:42:08]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : sec murdering ho (117,170,2)
Line 1589: [17:42:09]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : hop (117,170,2)
Line 1590: [17:42:11]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : a clown hos (117,170,2)
Line 1592: [17:42:14]SAY: Ghost/Swagbringer : its madness (117,170,2)

You can interpret this how you want, but considering you say this and then after you do you continue to argue that what you did was in the right (see full logs for that) makes it feel like you're actually gloating about the mess you made. We've banned captains for better "new rules" than yours, and a lot of them at least knew it was bad in hindsight instead of scrambling to justify creating a law that will only end in mass murder.

Also, everything sawrge said. Especially the part about you killing somebody that disarmed you. Are you aware that disarm pretty much only does anything if you have something in your hands? The knockdown you get for like a second on occasion from it isn't enough to really do anything to you. You were not even remotely in a "crit or be killed situation." You could have just left.

[Swagbringer]

I was very angry in ghost chat it's true and I said stupid things. Security being compromised as soon as I landed put me on edge and in a bad mood from the getgo and things just I got worse, but I understand that's no excuse.

I did have my gun out at time when he started to swipe at me. I really really did not want to kill him but I choked hard and went stupid I'm sorry

[imblyings]

The admin who spawned in earlier was myself. I can't pay full attention to ss13 for 6+ hours plus so I usually respond to bwoinks as I hear them. An admin being present in adminwho and not doing anything is not approval of a player's actions. It just means they haven't noticed it yet.

When you attacked the miner and the cargo tech intervened, your situation was no different from an assistant killing the hos fnr and then killing a security officer who intervenes. Self defence excuses are worthless if you were killing someone with no justification in the first place.

All bans can stay and be appealed no later than in a months time.