[Arianya] Snake Plissken - Went to the brig as a crewmember during rumours of cult

[Zaffinomlb]

Byond account and character name: Zaffinomlb | Snake Plissken
Banning admin: Arianya
Ban type: Play
Ban reason and length: Reason: "Went to the brig as a crewmember during rumours of cult, slipped the captain and was summarily stunned, restrained, holywatered and creampie'd by various security members. Used this as reason to throw a mousetrap bomb into security, killing 2, damaging another and breaching the department. Advised this is improper escalation and banned for 24 hours per kill plus change for miscellaneous damage." | Time: 3060 mins.
Time ban was placed: Server Time: 2018-08-19- 15:19:14
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagel
Your side of the story: Went to brig to enlist after hearing about cult in medbay. Saw captain standing still and not moving or talking, slipped them and the chaplain. Was dog piled on, searched, and chaplain threw the pie in my bag in my face. Was arrested and "deconverted" for over ten mins(Which as far as I know being held for over ten mins is an admin-able issue). Within that time three actual cultist who were found with cult items are deconverted and released. After me pointing out how I was obviously not a cult for the 5th time, the chaplain((Caroline Dupont)Dax Dupont) put me in disposal and trashed me with cuffs on. I returned and threw my family tool box with a mousetrap grenade in it at them telling them to open it. They knew full well what was in said toolbox from the search that they did on me. They even saw me arm the grenade in front of their face because I did it in eye shot of them. I reiterate willingly opening a container in which they had full knowledge of having an explosive in it. More over before opening said toolbox they picked up up and moved toward me, killing themselves, hop, and me.
Why you think you should be unbanned:
It is arguable that the time is in excess, considering the contextual knowledge of the chaplain knowing about the bomb and willing opening it to kamikaze me in the blast as well as take a bystander with us. The admin in question also has a relationship bias with the chaplain and Dax lied in ahelp stating I was stealing from the captain.
This cabal of catpeople/weebs is becoming problematic and their propensity to infiltrate administrative staff is becoming a pervasive problem.
I expect backlash for this statement but as Henry David Thoreau once said "The state does not demand justice of its members".

[Dax Dupont]

Let's start from the beginning.
You, as an assistant, walk into Brig.
The Borg tries feeding you holy water, you refuse and tell it to stop.
You run into the security equipment area, slip the captain and me, I see you pick up stuff from the sec lockers. You get arrested, fed holy water. Meanwhile cultists start hitting the Brig. After 5 minutes or so, probably less? It's hard to tell time while dealing with cult, we implant you and let you go.
You instead run to somewhere else with the cuffs still on which is whatever. You return and present a toolbox and ask us to look in it, me figuring it had something interesting in it opened it which blew up instantly.

I had no knowledge of a grenade and I certainly never saw you arm one.

If you didn't want it to explode, why would you put a nade trap in it and tell us to look in it?

Your goal most certainly was to kill me and with that you caused collateral because you were extremely angry.

PS I never stated you stole from the captain specifically.

[Arianya]

The stealing from the captain was a Chinese-whispers like misunderstanding on my part regarding taking stuff from sec lockers. Ultimately this was difficult to prove purely from logs and was largely immaterial to the case, hence why I didn't pursue it any further once I realized my mistake. I apologize if that felt accusatory, I was merely comparing stories.

Quite simply, it reduces down to the fact that you bombed the brig with only a inconvenience that you brought on yourself as grievance to justify it.

The fact that your bombing was done via a mouse-trap activation (and thus, as you tried to claim at the time, not your fault) is really bizarre and deflective.

If you had sought to get revenge in some lesser way, say pranking the chaplain or fucking with the chapel, there would have been nothing ahelpable. (There's some argument as to fucking with a key-stone position like the chaplain during cult, but this isn't really relevant to this particular case)

If security had roughed you up or otherwise brought escalation policy into the matter, you would have been almost certainly justified in killing whoever attacked you, but not in bombing the department. As it happens, the worst that happened to you was that a cream pie was thrown in your face, and that you were held longer then is ideal.

At the end of the day, you played shitty games in the brig during rumoured cult. I don't for a second doubt that you were hoping to get a reaction and in the end you got one that you didn't like (or, in a more malicious reading, you did like it in that you felt it gave you reasoning to further escalate things, however wrong you were). You won mildly-shitty prizes, and decided this warranted throwing your toys out the pram and bombing Security.

As I noted at the time, this is a case of improper escalation, and as a result you received 24 hours per death caused directly, and another 3 hours for the associated bombing damage (in hindsight this was a bit of a weird number to pick, but eh, it's a nice even number)

In summary: Appeal denied. A headmin is welcome to over-rule.

I'm not even going to humour your weird soap boxing by the way. Your actions were unacceptable whether you or the victim were a ~kawaii moth~ or a down to earth super-normal greyshirt.

[Arianya]

One other minor policy note:

You could have absolutely ahelped being stuck in the brig for 10 minutes or longer. The fact that you you were in the brig 10 minutes or longer does not give you greater right to reprisal automatically. The rule exists so that we can ensure the security staff haven't forgotten about you and to avoid potentially excessive punishments.

You didn't ahelp your time in the brig as far as I know, and based off what Dax has said in the thread, I would most likely have ruled that it was a unfortunate reality of deconversion + the brig being assaulted.

[Dax Dupont]

The arrest itself:
[2018-08-19 15:00:45.358] ATTACK: Nervere/(Scurra Bardus) has stunned Zaffinomlb/(Snake Plissken) with [telescopic baton] (NEWHP: 100) (Brig Control (111, 172, 2))
[2018-08-19 15:00:45.416] ATTACK: DaxYeen/(Caroline Dupont) has handcuffed Zaffinomlb/(Snake Plissken) (NEWHP: 100) (Brig Control (111, 170, 2))

While he was getting searched:
[2018-08-19 15:01:29.207] ATTACK: DaxYeen/(Caroline Dupont) has threw and hit Zaffinomlb/(Snake Plissken) with [banana cream pie] (NEWHP: 100) (Security Office (117, 169, 2))
When he was tied to the chair:
[2018-08-19 15:01:44.718] ATTACK: DaxYeen/(Caroline Dupont) has fed Zaffinomlb/(Snake Plissken) with holywater (70u)[DC] (NEWHP: 100) (Brig (113, 166, 2))
When he threw the toolbox with the explosion:
[2018-08-19 15:07:43.987] ATTACK: Zaffinomlb/(Snake Plissken) has thrown the �Plissken family toolbox (Brig (117, 166, 2))

So from getting searched to exploding you spent about 6-6.5 minutes.
That's no where near the number you quotes being on the chair/brigged(not counting the search/arrest, that would make it 7 and often isn't see part of bridge time, but still).

Also, in the ahelp you claimed you were "beaten" trying to create the illusion you were harmed, while all that happened were help intent stunbatons to prevent you from getting off the chair, and that was specifically only katrina.

So in addition to all of this you're lying in ahelps/appeal.

[WarbossLincoln]

Was arrested and "deconverted" for over ten mins(Which as far as I know being held for over ten mins is an admin-able issue).

That is a rule, technically, but like anything else it's all situational. Stuff like cult is going to stretch it. There's also a golden rule of sec, the more annoying you are the worse they're going to treat you.

I can't imagine any admin would have bwoinked sec for keeping you in the brig too long during a cult deconversion when converstion modes are basically "bucklecuffed in brig" simulators.

[Dax Dupont]

Was arrested and "deconverted" for over ten mins(Which as far as I know being held for over ten mins is an admin-able issue).

That is a rule, technically, but like anything else it's all situational. Stuff like cult is going to stretch it. There's also a golden rule of sec, the more annoying you are the worse they're going to treat you.

I can't imagine any admin would have bwoinked sec for keeping you in the brig too long during a cult deconversion when converstion modes are basically "bucklecuffed in brig" simulators.

It wasn't even 10 minutes all in all the WHOLE situation took 7 minutes.

From getting cuffed, to getting searched, to getting fed holy water and the explosion.

7 minutes seems like not a long time considering wraiths were smashing the fucking brig doors which we repelled quickly.

[Arianya]

Resolved.