[Pandarsenic]Unjust ban missing very crucial details.

[Malice69]

BYOND account: Malice69
Character name: Edgar Crug
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 Day
Ban reason: Dayban for bad kill in Manuel 184033: As nonantag acting captain, killed someone unprompted and
‘then brought them to medical - this was the non-traitor red science lizard, not the traitor red science lizard.
Especially on MRP, you should not be doing field executions without a proper search and confirmation that you
have the right person, especially when they told you repeatedly which person it actually was.
Time ban was placed: 2022-05-30 14:23:36
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: ID 184039
Your side of the story: Early into the round a red scientist lizard comes to the bridge and asks me to open the caps office, I open it knowing what was going to happen next, and I come back to the office later to see a bug and the hand tp gone as expected. I was fine with this. After the "weak point objective" was done and a hole was blasted into dorms and I ask over coms for transcends to fix it as I thought he was the same red scientist lizard that bugged the office before. https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/184 ... fined-1048 Keep in mind there are 7 people on the server. They are argumentative and then later on when I tell the crew about the 2 deaths on sensors transcends states (EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "hey man, they were asking for it") I had had enough with the murder and explosions so I went to arrest him. I arrested him and talked to the Hop about what to do with him. Another crew member said that he even set Xenos free. (https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/184 ... fined-1632) The hop said to execute him so I went to the area I thought he blew up. while in the spaced area he died of o2 loss because I did not have a crowbar. but then the coms console was hacked. I noticed I was wrong about transcends and brought him to med revived him within 120 seconds of his death. (https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/184 ... efined-523)(https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/184 ... efined-500)(https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/184 ... fined-1796)
Why you think you should be unbanned: Due to the sequence of events and the remorse I had after I figured things out and acted out on fixing what I misinterpreted I think an unban is justified
Anything else we should know: No

[Jake]

i'm the offended party on this one, i'd like to chime in on this appeal



11:11:75 Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "transcends fix dorms'"

11:18:25 EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "nah i'm good"

11:18:36 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "how about you catch the real traitor"

11:18:47 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "and you killed runtime"

11:19:07 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "stole the rds armor"

11:19:23 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "sure i've also called an army of sm spiders"

11:19:45 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "buddy I was chill with it until you detonated dorms"

11:19:58 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "and then refused to patch it u["

11:20:05 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "buddy i'm telling you, that ain't me"

11:20:10 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "check the prints"

This is when the accusations start, edgar accuses me of witnessing me commit several crimes, and judging by his "perceived mistake" not once he overed my character to check for the name, i ask him to check for prints, he doesn't do that.

11:20:18 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "I saw you with my eyes"

11:20:22 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "I opened the door"

11:20:26 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "for you"

11:20:45 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "and you blast a hole in the station"

11:20:52 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "if only there were more red lizards strolling around."

now this one is just a straight up lie, at no point that has ever happened, unless you buy that "he saw me with his own eyes" and opened the door for the other similar looking lizard without even checking their name, Steals-The-Organ ( the real traitor) didn't even use a syndicate id to pretend it was me, i hint there might be another lizard committing the crimes, which frankly shouldn't be that hard to check with a crew of less than 10 people but he decides to ignore that.

11:22:50 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "well 2 of our scientists are dead"
11:22:56 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "anyone want to explain?"
11:23:15 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "hey man, they were asking for it"

This is where i a joke about the dead scientists, and what it's being used as leverage to justify the execution, i mean i did joke about summoning an army of SM spiders( an objective that as far as i'm concerned doesn't even exist), don't think that being this vague about committing a crime is ground for instant execution

11:24:55 SAY RektByIssei/(Peter Lustig) "He set the xenos free"

11:25:02 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "also set xenos free"

11:25:02 SAY Mr_fier/(Lux Aquilla) "EVERY SINGLE ONE?"

11:25:07 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "how about we throw him"

11:25:11 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "down the hole he made"

11:25:13 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "this has been funny enough"

11:25:14 SAY Mr_fier/(Lux Aquilla) "THAT FUCKER'S GETTING THE CHAIR"

11:25:15 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "proof?"

11:25:17 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "show it to me"

i get accused of letting "xeno get free", whatever the hell that even means, since the xeno infestation cannot in any shape or form be triggered by a player nor i had any interactions with xeno at that point, brings me to the hop and decides to throw me down the z level formed by the explosion caused by Steals-The-Organs, i once again ask to be shown proof what they claiming, nothing gets done.

11:25:47 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "for real"

11:25:53 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "i didn't do anything"

11:26:04 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "SEARCH ME"

11:26:07 SAY EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) "you fucking dumbass"

11:26:12 SAY Mr_fier/(Lux Aquilla) "BHAHAHAHA I FELL"

11:26:13 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "I saw you"

11:26:23 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "I will save you"

11:27:35 SAY Mr_fier/(Lux Aquilla) "OW"

11:27:39 SAY Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "I no longer think its transcends"

11:26:04: i started to get annoyed and ask the captain to perform a search on me, doesn't do that.

We move near the depressurized room, them planning to throw me out like edgar previously announced, the hop falls into the z level, and i fall to crit due to the room being depressurized, i beg the captain to do a search, it doesn't happen, once i finally die he realizes his mistake and moves to medical to have me revived.

I'd also like to add that in the past few days a few vocal members on the manuel community, Malice69 being the most prominent one have dumped most of their frustrations on the state of the new dynamic traitor mode on me, since i tend to focus on completing objectives and don't do that many gimmicks as antag, just a quick search on his comment history would at least hint some kind of reservation against me.

Even if i'm to assume there was no bias towards me as a person, on MRP when apprehending suspected antagonists you should at least bother searching them or look for ptints, he had me in cuffs for a solid 5 minutes and i got bag searched only after i died, in multiple occasions i prompted him to do the bare minium that's required to prove someone guilty, but him apparently witnessing me commit multiple crimes and open a door for me that never happened was enough.

[Malice69]

Forgot to post this, This is the user after he died and his response in deadchat

[Pandarsenic]

Forgot to post this, This is the user after he died and his response in deadchat

That statement didn't factor into the handling of this.

Also, Scrubby is having a fit for me and I can't open any of your links; I would appreciate if you could copy-paste the relevant lines. I'll verify their contents and context through the raw logs after.

[Pandarsenic]

Scrubby links

I still can't view the scrubby links, but my initial thoughts:

- The ban reason/note will be amended re: "execution" terminology. From the logs alone, it was impossible to tell if you suffocated him accidentally or intentionally.
- The "They had it coming" thing sounds well within the bounds of "obvious joke" to me. Claiming credit for or "explaining" murders you didn't do is a traditional SS13 pastime.
- As mentioned, I don't see any significant evidence of a metagrudge-motivated action here and any belief of such on Jake's part was not factored into the judgement.
- You did get an exceptionally fast revive, this is true, and I fully admit that I missed just how fast it was, and that is relevant - less than 5 full minutes from first shot fired to revival.

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[2022-05-30 11:23:44.394] ATTACK: Malice69/(Edgar Crug) has fired at [heavy firelock] with the disabler beam from Ordnance Mixing Lab (Ordnance Mixing Lab (188,101,3))
[2022-05-30 11:23:45.342] ATTACK: Malice69/(Edgar Crug) has fired at EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) with the disabler beam from Ordnance Mixing Lab (NEWHP: 100)  (Ordnance Mixing Lab (188,101,3))
[2022-05-30 11:24:01.285] ATTACK: Malice69/(Edgar Crug) has handcuffed EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) (NEWHP: 100)  (Ordnance Mixing Lab (189,102,3))
[2022-05-30 11:27:29.663] EMOTE: EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Central Primary Hallway (130,121,4))
[2022-05-30 11:28:13.090] ACCESS: Mob Login: EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) was assigned to a /mob/living/carbon/human
[2022-05-30 11:28:19.413] EMOTE: EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) gasps! (Medbay Treatment Center (148,117,4))

That said: the death itself was entirely unnecessary had you just searched them on site first or in the nearby security post, or done the slightest investigation of his claim that it was the other lizard, especially given that...

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[2022-05-30 10:56:05.207] EMOTE: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) points at Edgar Crug (Central Primary Hallway (116,140,4))
[2022-05-30 10:56:06.816] SAY: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) "hey" (Central Primary Hallway (116,140,4))
[2022-05-30 10:56:08.999] SAY: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) "can you let me in" (Central Primary Hallway (116,140,4))
[2022-05-30 10:56:09.569] SAY: Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "what" (Bridge (113,137,4))
[2022-05-30 10:56:17.343] SAY: Malice69/(Edgar Crug) "when I get the id" (Bridge (113,137,4))
[2022-05-30 10:56:18.429] SAY: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) "i need to do something" (Central Primary Hallway (116,140,4))

I think, hearing your side, it's fair to say that you weren't acting in bad faith, which counts for a lot.

However, you did skip a lot of trivial stuff you could have done to confirm which of them it was - checking prints, looking at their mugshots in the Security Records, asking Transcends-the-Flesh to come to sec for a search if you don't think he'll stash stuff, searching on site or in the science security post, etc.

The ban duration has already expired, so we can take our time with this, if that's okay with you. I'm already going to be amending it based on the details you've provided, so it's probably best if we iron out those changes all in one go.

Ideally, where this goes is you understand that there are a lot of paths you could have taken - most easy, a few more involved - to make the death more or less unnecessary, even if you did immediately correct it. Does that seem reasonable?

[Malice69]

"to make the death more or less unnecessary, even if you did immediately correct it. Does that seem reasonable?"

I did not kill them directly and got trapped and suffered myself from that firelock incident.

"less than 5 full minutes from the first shot fired to revival."

I think measuring from the time of death to revival would be better as being detained is not the same thing as dead

"The "They had it coming" thing sounds well within the bounds of "obvious joke" to me. Claiming credit for or "explaining" murders you didn't do is a traditional SS13 pastime."

He was set to wanted for 3 major crimes and was a syndicate agent. I do not see it as an "obvious joke" when you are wanted for 3 major crimes and then you respond this way when asked about a double homicide.

I am requesting that this ban gets removed from my records.

[Malice69]

If there is a way to find the mugshots of people I got confused with I would like to post that also.

[Jake]

"to make the death more or less unnecessary, even if you did immediately correct it. Does that seem reasonable?"

I did not kill them directly and got trapped and suffered myself from that firelock incident.

"less than 5 full minutes from the first shot fired to revival."

I think measuring from the time of death to revival would be better as being detained is not the same thing as dead

"The "They had it coming" thing sounds well within the bounds of "obvious joke" to me. Claiming credit for or "explaining" murders you didn't do is a traditional SS13 pastime."

He was set to wanted for 3 major crimes and was a syndicate agent. I do not see it as an "obvious joke" when you are wanted for 3 major crimes and then you respond this way when asked about a double homicide.

I am requesting that this ban gets removed from my records.

You had me in cuffs, and were planning to throw me down the zlevel,you said it yourself, you knew full well the area was depressurized, you have way too many hours played not to know that would have been the case.

I was set to wanted because you didn't bother doing the bare minimum to ensure i was actually the guy committing those crimes, every accusation got sprung up out of pure speculation and gross oversight, you even talked to the real culprit, you opened the door leading to his objective, and you still accused me of being the one who asked you for that, me getting mid round traitor has no bearing on this whatsoever, i didn't try to complete any objectives during that round, Steals-The-Organs didn't even try to frame me, which made me wonders how could you have pinned so many crimes on me and never once scoop up the real traitor, you even blamed me of starting a xeno outbreak which is not even objectively possible.

My edgy joke was preceded by many requests of you actually checking for evidence, giving a very strong hint of who the real traitor was , which you chose to completely ignore, so i gave up and started joking about it.

Any sane person looking at these logs could tell you were hell bent to pin this down on me, which if you were doing to cover your own traitor shaenenigans or the other lizard, would have been completely fine, but nothing in the round even remotely hints towards that.

[Pandarsenic]

The post I have saved in Drafts is unmanageably large, but for initial review of logs, I am going to list what I think are the important factors, some in your favor and some against:

You accused him proactively
- You had reason to suspect a red lizard scientist of being a traitor, due to the office bugging (Steals-the-Organs)
- You had no evidence that either red lizard scientist was responsible for the Triangulation Charge
- Transcends had not, by that point in the round, ever left toxins
- You have not seen Transcends yet this round(?) but presumably know his rough look from prior interactions. This is not sufficient grounds for a metagrudge claim, our standards of proof are far higher, and I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea there because of two statics knowing each others' looks.

You arrested him
- You used security records to mark him for arrest
- At this point, there were 9 security records: Fun Uncle, Clown, the most recent latejoin; Kira-Ikali, a latejoin shaft miner; Adam Frisk, a latejoin Assistant; Peter Lustig, a latejoin AtmoTech; Henry McCarty, a scientist who died very quickly when he Russian Revolvered himself 2 minutes after joining; and the 4 starting records (You, Steals, Transcends, and a Roboticist)
- Lustig arrived seconds before the Triangulate Charge went off; this leaves only you, Henry (instant suicide), the scientists, and the roboticist as potential suspects
- Of those five people (assuming you didn't know Henry was basically instantly dead), two are red lizards

- AFTER setting Transcends to arrest, you said there were two dead scientists
- There was one dead scientist, possibly still left out in the bar lounge, who Russian Revolvered himself nearly instantly (10:58:48)
- There are two living scientists, Steals-the-Organs and Transcends-the-Flesh.
- There was one dead roboticist, who screwdrivered himself to death and apparently also managed to die in the bar lounge? Or his body was there by the time he moved to a larva. (11:03:36)
- The first response is the clown, who of course claims credit for killing them (never mind that they're not dead).
- Shortly after, Transcends jokes about them having it coming (despite presumably not knowing who they are, because, again, they're not dead).
- You find Transcends in Toxins, through methods I'm not clear on, since you presumably didn't believe his (truthful) claim that he hasn't left Toxins all shift? But at that point, you cuff him and take him to the bridge.

You neglected or actively ignored the presence of Steals-the-Organs
- You had, as established, talked to Steals-the-Organs earlier
- You were told that there was another red lizard
- Steals-the-Organs was one of the three scientists, two of which you claimed were dead?
- Steals-the-Organs was fairly active on comms, including what may be mentioning that they were handling xenobio in quite literally the same second as Transcends rejects responsibility for the bombing?

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[2022-05-30 11:14:49.040] TCOMMS: EnterTheJake/(Transcends-The-Flesh) [Common] (spans:  virtual-speaker ) "I've been in the lab sssince the entire ssshift" (language: Galactic Common) (Research Division (180,105,4))
[2022-05-30 11:14:49.177] TCOMMS: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) [Common] (spans:  virtual-speaker ) "My child will take over the ssstation" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (154,129,4))

- Steals-the-Organs was present and trying to talk to you(?) at the execution. Logs are here, screenshot soap shows where he was when he spoke by the grid coords. Ghost is where you were when you pulled the alarm.

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[2022-05-30 11:25:28.473] SAY: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) "hey" (Central Primary Hallway (125,140,4))
[2022-05-30 11:25:30.696] GAME: Edgar Crug reset a fire alarm at  (127,142,4)
[2022-05-30 11:25:34.623] SAY: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) "wanna learn a" (Central Primary Hallway (125,140,4))
[2022-05-30 11:25:42.670] TCOMMS: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) [Common] (spans:  virtual-speaker ) "Wanna learn a new laungauge" (language: Galactic Common) (Central Primary Hallway (122,144,4))
[2022-05-30 11:25:50.476] TCOMMS: SufferingIsFUN/(Steals-The-Organs) [Common] (spans:  virtual-speaker ) "Captian isss killing a lizard" (language: Galactic Common) (Central Primary Hallway (122,143,4))

You decided what to do with Transcends at the bridge, with the "contributions" of a few others
- You take a bit of time at the bridge - where you do not search him - to recite his alleged offense
- There is still no evidence linking him to this offense
- The HOP, nonantag, seems to take your claims at face value and pushes for execution?
- Steals-the-Organs is physically present, trying to talk to you
- Another traitor, Lustig, claims that Transcends-the-Flesh released the xenos over radio
- Unless these are some very well-behaved xenos, the logs appear to indicate that no, they're still very much contained at this point?

You got him killed, but it was only partially an execution
- You said you were going to execute him
- You said you were going to do it by throwing him into a breach
- You brought him into a breached zone
- You threw him, though he never left the Z-level (only the HOP, who fell on their own)
- You have your "Ah shit" moment
- Transcends-the-Flesh died shortly after, HOWEVER

- You were already most of the way to medical by the time he expired
- You went around the back/central primary hallway? Log shows he died on the soap marker below
- You immediately got him to the treatment theater after.
- You healed and revived him personally, with a total dead time of 11:27:29 to 11:28:19, with the last mesh applied at 11:28:42.
- This makes 50 seconds dead-dead for a total of 73 seconds in treatment.
- You took him into custody at 11:24:01, meaning that from beginning to end...
- Transcends-the-Flesh's freedom was only significantly impaired for 4 minutes, 41 seconds.


- As things close out, you become a traitor and Organs becomes a space dragon

Do you agree with these base statements, and the rough order they were in where relevant, independent of any conclusions we're going to draw from them after? Are there any clarifications or refutations you would like to provide, particularly for stuff I've flagged with a question mark where the logs make it hard to perceive exactly what was going on with high confidence, but also for anything else

[Malice69]

Lowpop, no sec and at the time of arrest there was no command. Was I wrong about exactly who did what crime? Yes I was. But given that this is lowpop/deadpop and there is nobody to inforce the law and the acting captain (medical doctor) was able to handle this situation within 4 minutes alone and only 50 seconds dead Is impressive! I agree that on highpop this may be worthery of a ban but given the circumstances the way I handled this given the resources I had is actually applaudable in the way I handled it.

[Malice69]

"- You had, as established, talked to Steals-the-Organs earlier
- You were told that there was another red lizard
- Steals-the-Organs was one of the three scientists, two of which you claimed were dead?
- Steals-the-Organs was fairly active on comms, including what may be mentioning that they were handling xenobio in quite literally the same second as Transcends rejects responsibility for the bombing?"
"- There are two living scientists, Steals-the-Organs and Transcends-the-Flesh.
- There was one dead roboticist, who screwdrivered himself to death and apparently also managed to die in the bar lounge? Or his body was there by the time he moved to a larva. (11:03:36)
- The first response is the clown, who of course claims credit for killing them (never mind that they're not dead).
- Shortly after, Transcends jokes about them having it coming (despite presumably not knowing who they are, because, again, they're not dead).
- You find Transcends in Toxins, through methods I'm not clear on, since you presumably didn't believe his (truthful) claim that he hasn't left Toxins all shift? But at that point, you cuff him and take him to the bridge."

This is not relevant as how the hell would I know this in round? Its not like I have notifications of who died where and from who and where they are. I was the ONLY command and given that I my situation I would say my assumptions with the info I had was actually decent.

[Pandarsenic]

Where did you get the idea of there being two dead scientists, then, exactly?

[Malice69]

Sensors showed 2 scientist dead with no location

[Pandarsenic]

Lowpop, no sec and at the time of arrest there was no command. . . But given that this is lowpop/deadpop and there is nobody to inforce the law and the acting captain (medical doctor) was able to handle this situation within 4 minutes alone and only 50 seconds dead Is impressive!

I agree that on highpop this may be worthery of a ban but given the circumstances the way I handled this given the resources I had is actually applaudable in the way I handled it.

These are very fair points. You didn't have the luxury of even an AI to rely on.

Was I wrong about exactly who did what crime? Yes I was.

Now, I'm trying not to be unnecessarily harsh here, but you managed to be completely wrong about who you grabbed, even if - and I don't want to minimize or downplay this - when you actually finally grabbed them, you resolved it staggeringly quickly. You had him in custody and back to free faster than most sec teams would have handled processing in the brig alone, despite the death in the middle. So, one last question before I write up and present the altered "How does this sound" thing to you.

With the benefit of hindsight/log access, the discussions of the tools you had at your disposal, the opinions of others, and so on, is there anything you think you should have done differently, anything you wish you could change about how you handled the situation, anything you hope you'll do in similar situations in the future, etc.?

There's no right answer there, and why you feel however you do is more important than saying one thing or another.

[Malice69]

I will double check mugshots in sec records to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. It's gonna be very rare for something like this to happen again but I will keep it at the back of my mind just in case.

[Pandarsenic]

Yeah, fair enough. Though stuff like the det's forensic scanner was suggested, and it would have been nice, I get that this is the sort of thing that's a lot easier to do when you have literally at least one other person on hand to share the sec load with (the HOP showing up late and immediately calling for lizard blood doesn't count)

As I mentioned before - it's very difficult for me to believe that you were being truly malicious when you took such fast action to get Transcends out of danger and revived, especially since you took personal responsibility instead of casually tossing him on a stasis bed and ordering someone else to do it. Not all deaths are equal, especially when the time out of the game from cuffs on to revive and release was shorter than the average search-and-brig-timer for a petty thief.

Every bad decision you made or thing you got wrong was built on what I think are pretty reasonable assumptions that veered off in strange directions (TWO red lizards! TWO suicidal members of the Science department! etc.), so I think it's pretty fair that as an acting captain with no sec, command, or silicon support whatsoever, you were simply stretched thin enough that it probably seemed unnecessary to go to most of those lengths.

The only real issue I have remaining is beginning the execution before the bag search. Throwing him into his own alleged hull breach is perhaps a little LRP-ish, but if you had gotten the right person it would have been really funny, so I don't think it warrants any sort of alert over it and it won't be mentioned at all.

My proposed amendment would be:

Warned - as nonantag acting captain with no command/sec/silicon support on Manuel, detained the near-identical twin of an antagonist and started an execution without/before searching the suspect. Was unable to stop it in time to prevent death, but immediately and personally handled the revival in under 60 seconds from time of death.

If that seems fair, rad. I'll adjust it next time I log on after getting your assent.

If not, I'm cool to talk over anything you still find objectionable. I'm trying to keep it to the core facts only.

[Malice69]

I think that's fair. Also the reason I did not search them I thought they were the other person (BLATANT syndicate agent) In my head I did not to search the bag because regardless of what I found It would not have changed anything as saw them plant a bug Infront of me and doormagged airlocks open.
(I was wrong though)
(I also thought he had a storage implant given the amount of contraband I thought he had)
(I would have gotten the forensic scanner but given that sec was blown to bits that wasn't really an option.)

[Pandarsenic]

Fair on all counts, but I thiiiink the detective's office is on a different Z level so it got spared - irrelevant, though, because you can't be expected to know every station forward and backward perfectly. Adjusting the note now, thanks for coming here to hash things out.